Since the movie Wind River ( great movie in some respects ) came out , a lots been mentioned about the rate of Native women who have been murdered or disappeared .

In the movie , somewhat predictably, the villains were bored , horny oil field security personnel who were white.

The reality ?


In real life , the perpetrators are almost always fellow tribe members . No conspiracy behind it. Alcohol and drugs , things get out of hand , a girl ends up dead and no one talks.

Having lived in Indian country all my life , the narrative gets old . Wanna be a victim of Indian crime ? First step , be Indian.

But the reality also holds true in primarily Black areas.

Why does society ( You know , James' group ) continue to deny truth ? Boco , who seems to think Natives descended from Heaven , his Canadian Natives claim a murder rate similar .

Thoughts ?

They are angry and want someone to blame. It's a shame all around. A lot of what goes on on a lot of reserves in general is very sad, and not sure what is to be gained by pointing out the obvious other than to make ourselves feel better.

My theory is that all human beings at this point are on level ground, and far be it from me to decry the fact that white guys are portrayed as bad guys. I just don't care. And in the movie wind river, that is to be expected. It certainly adds to the end result of raising awareness, despite the fact that statistically things might be different. It is Hollywood, after all

Feeling guilty is easier than solving problems. To solve the problem of criminal behavior in trailer parks full of white people in rural America, Indians on reservations, or black people in ghettos, there are some facts that need looked at, starting with welfare destroys 100 times more people than it helps. Need to end with the war on drugs makes things worse.

p.s. lots of stuff inbetween those two as well. number one being low iq

Because it is almost illegal to be a straight white male these days thanks to snowflakes and their supporters.

I agree with this.

It is a tragedy how indians seem to have been Hoodwinked into believing that voting a certain way will better their existence. I wish they'd accept freedom and responsibility to get the (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) off the reservation. I also do believe in generational trauma, and things may not get better in our lifetime. It's not been that many generations since they were herded onto reservations like cattle. Perhaps some empathy is in order.

Good movie and a very good gunfight scene.....very realistic.

Violence to indigenous women by indigenous men is recognized here.Like in the US interracial violence on both sides gets more publicity.
Although a persons lifestyle doesn't justify violence against people it sadly goes with the territory.
And To you Profitt,I call out bigotry against Indigenous people because my wife and Kids are Cree.

What did she do to get punished that severely?

Just lucky I guess.

I didnt realize how bad it really was until I started on ambulance about 6 years ago. Its really sad, and my opinion is that drugs and alcohol are the biggest problem in First Nation communities. That has led to an incredibly high rate of FAS syndrome that creates another set of problems. The Liberals just throw money at it knowing it will get them re-elected. The problems don't get solved. The problems just grow and I can tell you the high FAS rates will cause huge problems down the road. We are already seeing it actually.

I do believe to a large extent they have been taken advantage of by the leftists in our country. Liberal policies are killing them literally in some cases. My youngest daughter did her paramedic practicum in a small northern Alberta community. They have a list of 400 conditions they have to deal with under supervision before they are licensed. Gunshot wounds and stabbings are on that list. Her friend was sent to Vancouver, and it took her almost 4-months to finish. In the small Alberta town of High Level my daughter was done in 17-days. She said it was like the wild west. Stabbings and beatings every single night on the reserve. The communities near me are not much better. I work with the community nurses all the time and very very few girls reach puberty without being raped and beaten. Some might not like it, but those are the facts.

Take it for what it's worth FAS rates Nation wide is around .03 the last Native American training I was at said they have over 20% so that is a huge difference by any standards. Just looked up one study that claimed 30%.

Maybe if we had a national "work or starve program" it would help?

Hunger, the greatest motivator.

Uh...it will work but...crime will got thru the roof up into space before it gets sorted.

My son is married to a First Nation girl, she is first class people. Her mother is an accountant for the band.....she agrees with you. The Liberals create these problems with free handouts, but they know it will get them back into office so they dont care...

Wasn't that the traditional way of life before white people improved their lives?

I don't have white guilt. That's for the weak.

Unless you have had a DNA test it doesn't pay to be guilty about being white. Your ancestors might have been hatched on a fence post in Africa.

That's true Finn. i agree

Minorities in this country are born with a head start, offered by our gov't. If they don't make something of themselves, that's their problem.

My favorite quote

"Only the weak blame parents, their race, their times, lack of good fortune, or the quirks of fate. Everyone has it within his power to say, this I am today, that I shall be tomorrow. The wish, however, must be implemented by deeds." Louis L'Amour The Walking Drum

Starbits

One time I started a grass fire here in the spring. All the neighbors showed up and we put it out carrying 5 gallon buckets of water and chainsawing trees and connecting up a trash pump and dowsing everything real good. We called in the State boys just to be safe. There wasn't much for them to do when they showed up. One of the firefighters complemented us on doing such a good job. He said usually when they get called to put out a fire in a village the people are just standing around and watching things burn.

Sad!

Wow, that’s cool. A bash the Indians post. I am a very proud Lakota Sioux. English is my second language. I am the third generation to get my masters degree in my family, my sister and mom have their phd’s. We have owned and operated a successful cattle business since 1897. This “they” and “the Indians” nonsense really doesn’t hold much water. It’s not a symptom of race or being “Indian”. It is a symptom of poverty. Period. Your trailer courts carry the same problems as out reservations. And until you have lived as a Native, on the reservation, surrounded by people that despise you because of your race, then you have no business passing judgement. Minority’s are Born with a leg up eh? Lol that’s the best joke I’ve heard all day. Try living on The Rez sometime and tell me what a huge leg up it is.

And I realize that I’m gonna get absolutely shredded. It’s fine. A whole you know what pot full of white people telling me and mine about all our problems and how it’s our fault and we don’t have responsibility, we’re lazy, we’re dumb, we’re drunks, we’re beggars, theives, and liars. Ain’t none of this new. Even had someone spray paint “prairie n*ggers and half breeds go back to the rez” on the walls of my college dorm. Btw that’s kind of what happens when we do get the “(This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) off the reservation”.

Pretty sure I'm bashing the government.

native trapper if you think handouts are a good thing then what do you see behind all the addiction, theft, assault and sex crimes on reservations?

Did he say he thinks hand outs are a good thing? Sorry if I missed it.

pike river whats your take on high crime areas? all those jokes about trailer parks are because they are high crime high addiction communities. at least a lot of them are. same with inner city black neighborhoods. common denominator in my mind is welfare.

reactions like native trapper is having are why no one can talk about it.

I worked with a Native last summer. He was good natured and a hard worker. He left his reservation when he turned 18. He told me of his experiences and all the bad things that go on the reservation. It's hard to believe some of thing that go on there. He told me the reason a lot of the crimes and bad things that go on there are kept quite because the tribal law don't want the government to think they can't take care of their own problems. They fear the government will try to step in and take over again.

In all honesty no human government can solve the complicated problems of mankind no matter what nation or tribe you are a part of.

I didn’t say handouts are a good thing. Not once. I got hostile when it degenerated and just turned into a bunch of folks talking about general problems with “Indians”. You wanna talk about the economic factors that’s fine. Just seemed like half of the posters were focused on race. But I don’t think welfare is the problem. Or the commodity program. Or Naha. Nor are they the solution. People are right when they say that the solution to our issues lies with us, but they’re wrong as to the why. Our problems don’t stem from laziness or ungratefulness or a sense of entitlement. Our problems are because native people struggle with reconsiling who we are, where we came from, and our culture with the world we live in. Part of it is rebellion. Many find it galling that after 80% of our race was wiped out, without mercy, that we should bend to the whims of the government that so happily murdered us, and not so long ago. The goal was assimilation. “Kill the Indian, save the man”. That was the mantra. So if we go to college, get a degree, live off the reservation next to white folks, work with white folks, talk like white folks, live like white people, then we have assimilated. And many would see that as us losing our identity. It’s a hard line to walk. Believe me, it’s one i toe everyday.

That I can understand.

I can't help but think that giving people handouts takes their pride. they start off thinking its a lifesaver. after weeks months years and generations it is IMO a soul killer

And Danny Clifton....would the more common common denominator be poverty, rather than welfare?

Blame whitey!,..pale face pr##ks,...always putting the herd down! 150 yrs.....no end in sight!
Tribal corruption,..not my fault!

I am sure there is some racism against Native Americans in parts of the US. Here in Ohio people will proudly tell you they are of Native American blood, often people who have blonde hair, blue eyes and lily white skin. People in Ohio are proud to have Native American heritage, especially if they hunt, trap or fish. When I met my new neighbor, he told me he was of Cherokee blood within minutes of meeting. People here tell you because they are proud and know most people here think it is good to be Native American.

Successful whites generally have guilt. Unsuccessful whites generally don't think about things enough to have any guilt at all. Race does not matter much in our society anymore, which is overall a good thing.

The biggest problem facing society is that irregardless of race, the wrong people have most of the children. I think this is why all human societies eventually fall. Our government makes it worse by paying the wrong people to breed with money taken from the people who should breed.

Keith

It takes time. People forget how recent it really was. I still have to drive across the wagon tracks to check my cows from when we were first put on the reservations. When we walk outside and see the squalor we live in, it is a constant and unceasing reminder of what happened. Imagine if some foreign nation overtook the us. (It would never happen I know but just bare with me here). Murder 80% of our nation. Packed us into little concentration camps and then said “live like us or else”. How long do you think it would take for people to be on board? You would teach your children what the American way of life was. What Americans stand for, and to never give in to the oppressors. And they would teach their children the same. I cannot speak for black folks. Or white folks in trailer parks. I know nothing about their lives. We have to figure out how to be proud of who we are, and still be successful. Gotta play the hand your dealt i know, but you gotta know the game first.

I probably live in worse poverty than most natives, but I have to do stuff to feed myself , heat the house, maintain the equipment and property, If the government was providing all these things with no effort by me, it wouldn't be much of a life. This would lead to apathy. Apathy is the problem.

21% do not have a kitchen or basic plumbing. Median per capita income is 4800$ a year. Those are hard stats to beat there my friend. Average household income is 9,000$ a year. A lot of the ideas people have are wrong too. Unless the tribe owns a successful casino (mine doesnt) there is no monthly check. I still have water and electric bills because the tribes don’t have their own power plants. It comes from off reservation. Still gotta pay the bill. I had to pay my own way through college, it most certainly was not free. Growing up the only handouts we got were commodities. Food. Food which kept me alive and healthy enough to grow up and go to school.

Driving down 83 off of 90 some years back in my semi, when I made that little jog in Mission, some little boys were throwing rocks at my truck. Some adults were watching and laughing. I was just hauling a load to NE. Didn't even stop there. I still don't get that. Adults condoning little boys damaging private property that way. Something aint right in that part of the world. Blaming me for something my ancestors did isn't going to benefit anyone.

FWIW I don't feel any guilt over a wilderness being turned into the country we all benefit from today. I see more opportunity today than probably anytime in our nations history. I cant feel sorry for people who choose to sit around feeling sorry for themselves.

Native Trapper
In one of ur posts u stated "it's a symptom of poverty". I think ultimately the million dollar question is what does it take to break the cycle of generational poverty. You would think with all the wisdom this world has accumulated we would have a understanding of what it truly takes but by the results of this society it seems we don't. Personally I think it's a morals and values thing and money being thrown at it isn't going to fix it.

P.S. I live 45 minutes from Haskell university. my kids couldn't even pay to go there let alone go free

Race does not matter much in our society anymore, which is overall a good thing.

That's lost on me,..Native Pride is brought forth front and center in most discussion and representations of differing viewpoints on indigenous peoples.
Most media outlays display non-natives as bigots without reasoning.

Friend of mine has a trucking business. I trap on his place and haul for him sometimes. his daughter is studying nursing at Haskell. I don't believe it is substandard education.

Well. I tried. I swallowed my pride and talked nice after my initial outburst. Didn’t work. Think what you want, do what you will, in the end it’s all just hot air. Happy trapping. Democrats, Republicans, libertarians, Christians Muslims Jews, whites natives blacks. If you trap your ok to me and I wish you all nothing but the best.

For what it's worth I appreciated the little bit of insight on what it's like for the native people on the reservations Native trapper.

Coyote trapping is here is top notch though. Silver lining.

What did you pay for your house? Who paid your medical bills? My kids were not even born in a hospital. They didn't go to a government provided school. We had a pitcher pump and used an out house. Lived in a 12X16 log cabin. Wife used to wash cloths in a 5 gallon bucket with a toilet plunger. You are barking up the wrong tree here.

Yet, I seem not to have all these poverty related issues.

BTW i worked my way up to a higher level of poverty since them early years.

But we didn't resolve anything!,...I guess I will forego my enthusiasm to right in favor of,..common ground? :/,.providing I didn't relinquish my

"White guilt".

Nativetrapper, thanks for sharing your life experiences.

I agree with you that poverty is a major part of the problem whether it's on the "rez", in "the hood", or trailer parks. Where we may be in disagreement is on the solution to that poverty. It doesn't seem that the welfare state is accomplishing much and in fact there is evidence to support it's making it worse.

Is there a rez in Minnesota that does not have a casino?

Most of natives here don't live on reservations. They don't live in poverty.

Which brings up another question,..living off Rez,can you capitalize off Casino take?

I appreciate your thoughts and views .

I paid 160,000 dollars for my house. Money that I earned. My insurance pays my medical bills, blue cross. Comes with my full time Job. You can shove your insinuations dirt.

Around here if you live on a reserve, you get free housing, a government check every month, free University, and you pay no tax. You can hunt, fish and spear fish all year long and have no limits on what you can take. The government literally is throwing money at reserves to invest, give grants, wind farms, etc..native ceremony and teachings are entertwined with our education system. We have public school powows twice a year with drum circles, and classes on native spirituality and teachings. Awareness on native issues is huge. We are proud of our native people here in Canada, and we don't have widespread racism issues by and large. Reserves self govern and have their own police forces which also police off reserve if needed.

And yet most reserves are still very impoverished.

We killed no natives during colonization. We have a dark bit of history called residential schools, but our government didn't kill any native people like in the us.

We took a much different approach than the us did and still, poverty, drugs, and all the crap that goes along with it...

I live near a reserve, and would love to see it flourish more than it does. The reserve by me is much better off than most. I have many employees from the reserve. Awesome people...but like I said, most places are still impoverished and the youth are in trouble. And we are not even mentioning the skyrocketi suicide rates in Canadas more northern reserves and inuit communities. Many inuit communities have declared a state of emergency as youth suicides are a monthly or weekly occurrence.

What is the answer?

Government dependence = problems.

Most folks don't understand South Dakota so they surely won't understand how the Rez works.

About 15 years ago my wife and I got sort of disgusted with all the welfare recipients, entitlement mentality and drugs in our little corner of Ky. I had the opportunity to take a job in Montana and went out there a couple weeks to look it over. My job required going on a couple of reservations and I was greatly surprised at how much they reminded me of eastern Ky. I concluded the only difference was that there was just a hundred years difference between the two reservations. One for the natives and the second of the “ Great Society” of the sixties that have become dependent on the govt. for their livelihoods. I know with achievable opportunity here it doesn’t have to be that way. They just prefer to stay in it in a large part and are rewarded for staying on the reservation. I’d say it’s tougher out there for sure but good to see above poster that found a way to change his life. Welfare and entitlements are one of if not the greatest pride and initiative killers in this country.

Then you are not poor or dependent. If your house started on fire, you would probably try to put it out.

You don't like it I won't join you at your pity party? Because I don't.

You are an example of the solution.

Tribes in America have been wiping out other Tribes before we showed up for better fishing, hunting or whatever. The east coast had many small Tribes that were exterminated by other Natives , not saying it's right but it is what it is.

The Cherokee of Western NC get a dividend from the Casino. A DNA is required to show a distant heritage.

work

Here's a link to the solution.

Big problem I see is putting one race, religion, sex or political orientation into the same shoe box and bad mouthing or stereotyping them. I have lived with a lot of different folks big cities and small, fought with and worked with people of all races, religions and political beliefs. One thing I learned is there is trash in all walks of life, I have know several trappers one in particular, I would put with the scum of the earth wife beater, child molester including his own and thief. For sure not a shining example of a trapper, I have even had two doors closed in my face because of his lack of ethics I guess those folks thought all trappers must be the same shooting deer for a bait. I guess my point being seems like there is a lot of bashing going on these days for unjust reason and I sure hate to see it on this forum.

I'm sure Metis Leader Louis Riel would beg to differ with you, but he can't since the Saskatchewan Government Hung him by the neck during the Native Rebellion in 1885.

OOPS !!!

w

out here in rural America if you go into a run down trailer park you will find out the stereotype is real. certainly not 100% but real all the same. people who sit around feeling sorry for theirself, taking whatever drug is handy, nicotine, ethanol, meth, marijuana, whatever they can get their hands on. waiting on their food stamps and cash assistance. both are all gone in two three days and they start waiting again. most of their stealing is from each other. it never stops. promiscuity and incest abound. never make any attempt to do for theirself but whine and cry nonstop about how bad they have it. I have little sympathy for them.

I don't mind helping somebody out of a hole. throwing money and food to them so they can live in the hole is just stupid.

There are a lot of problems, and unfortunately not very many today are doing much to help. Most people would rather be “right” than be helpful. You can be absolutely factually right about the problems, the victim culture, welfare etc, and still not contribute anything to the solution. Unfortunately that’s what most Conservatives are doing these days, which leaves the Liberals to try to “fix” things with their faulty systems.

Reading this conversation brings 2 specific things to mind, that badly need to stop:

1.Victim Identity. Quit telling people how bad you have it. Quit making it a goal to convince people that you had it as bad or worse than someone else. No matter what color you are or how hard you really did have it. If you feel that you need to explain your poverty or disadvantage to someone to explain your identity, then you have a victim identity complex, and you’re just as pathetic no matter what color you are. I’m straight, white, blue collar conservative male and I’m sick to the gills of hearing how “persecuted” straight white conservative males are. It doesn’t matter if it’s true! When did we become such whiners?? Once upon a time men took pride in overcoming disadvantages and wanted to be known for success, so they would downplay their hardships and brag about their victory, because that’s how they wanted to be identified. Today it seems that everyone just wants to win the moaning contest. We as a culture need to grow some pride again.

2. Stereotyping. There’s nothing wrong with noticing correlations, and there’s nothing wrong with stating them. Stereotypes exist because we humans as a species instinctively notice patterns and group correlations. It is wrong, however, to presumptively judge individuals based on them. It’s wrong to assume that a Native is welfare-dependent. It’s wrong to assume that a white person, or anyone, is racist. It’s wrong to assume that someone thinks you’re racist. It’s wrong to assume where someone gets their money, or what they do with it, or what they should do with it. We just need to stop. Stereotypes simply perpetuate stereotypes. Natives understandably had a strong distrust of whites for a couple generations. That caused them to make decisions that were often economically detrimental for them, such as withdrawing from white society and avoiding jobs. Then a new generation of whites started judging them for being poor and antisocial, and the Natives judged the whites for being racist all over again, and the cycle continued.

We as people need to simply refuse to act on stereotypes and evaluate each other as individuals. There is a difference between knowing a stereotype and acting on it. For example, I know that statistically Alaska Natives have a high rate of alcoholism. But I am still willing to hire them and give each one a chance on an individual basis. As a business owner, I’ve hired and worked with many natives and whites of different backgrounds, and here’s basically what my policy is:
“I’m an individual, and I’ll treat, respect and judge you as an individual. We don’t owe each other for anyone anyone else did, and we have no right to blame each other for anything anyone else did. You owe me the work I pay you to do, and I owe you the wages you earn, nothing more, nothing less.”

I think that’s the way it should be, and the sooner we all start acting that way, the better everyone will be.

Very true.

Maybe not. Maybe that is just where they belong, most would fail in the work force anyway and just be a headache to most employers.

Great post,Kenai Kid.

Anytime you pigeon hole any group based on a perceived notion your going to be more wrong then right often. You see it all of the time on here people will focus on or even search for what they "need" to confirm their created beliefs rather then think beyond what they want to see.

What happens when facts back up the notion ?

"And To you Profitt,I call out bigotry against Indigenous people because my wife and Kids are Cree."

Lol !!

Again , I appreciate Native's input on this matter .

The reports I've read say that Native women and girls are 10-25 times more likely to be victims of violent crime , specifically rape and murder, than women in any other demographic. Those aren't my numbers .

Secondly, we know that practically all victims of violent crime know their assailant. So, stands to reason that other Natives are the perpetrators.

Again, not Aaron Proffitt's opinion. Facts.

The solution lies directly within the respective communities.

Charles , how does that work as, last I'd read , DNA can't be used to establish tribal membership . Elizabeth Warren found this out .

You drive around the Rez pointing fingers at everyone your going to be wrong more then your right a higher percentage of problems per capita that comes with the substance abuse issues yes but not everyone. I have ran into more people trying to make things better then worse over the years but there are a lot of horror stories also but still it's not everyone!

At this time I’ll ask that everyone keep civil and refrain from taking scalps, women, and children...firewater and horses are fair game though lol

You be the bigger person and choose to treat people as individuals rather than the stereotype. You control your actions regardless of your opinions OR facts.

I could treat every Alaska Native I meet like an alcoholic child molester, and I might be right 40% of the time (more for alcohol), but it wouldn’t do anything to help any problems.

I choose, based on my own character, to treat every person as an individual with a blank slate until they show otherwise, regardless of the facts of their heritage, culture or family.

What it comes down to, Aaron Proffitt, is whether your own behavior is controlled by statistics or character. Or another way to put it, is your character bigger or smaller than the facts about other people?

kenaikid, might as well leave it alone. most of these people have their minds made up about Natives, whether or not they have any first hand knowledge. they watch their westerns, and type in "bad things about indians" on their google machines. But none of them know who we are. virtually none care. for 200 years the most powerful nation on earth has done everything it could to wipe first my people, and then our culture, off the earth. Yet, we remain. generations of my people were forcibly removed from their homes and taken to boarding schools were they were taught it was bad to be indian. brutally beaten for speaking our own language, and made to dress and act like "civilized" whites. But despite all that, i am a fluent speaker. Federal and State law made it illegal for us to practice our faith until 1978. Yet many of us still know what we believe and why. many states barred us from voting until 1957. Now there are native governers, and senators, and Representatives. It is in the darkest part of night that the lights shine brightest. and the same is true of the reservations. While there is undeniable darkness, it brings out some of the best people God has ever graced this earth with. Grandmas who raise 12 grandchildren with dignity and grace. never complaining, never failing. Women who have been the victims of unspeakable attrocities who stand back up to help others in the same boat. So you people can sit at your computers and talk about whats wrong with us all you want. If guns and cannons and prisons didnt break us then surely some stereotypes on a forum wont get me down. I am Proud of who i am. and i am Proud to call myself Lakota, because we are without a doubt some of the toughest and most stubborn and resilient people anywhere on earth.

Well said Nativetrapper10 and all the best to you and yours this day.

Seems as though you've ran into a few bad apples and used that as a basis to form an opinion about the majority...

There's a word for that.

Mike

Kenai and Native , while you bring up fair points, it still doesn't address the issue .

Native, just so you're aware, I don't research Native issues. I live in Indian country . House sits in the Comanche Nation. The story that brought this to mind was on NPR's website same day i initiated this thread. But it's been a local story for awhile.

But in the articles I've read, not once does any tribe take ownership of the problem. None. Lots of reasons for the behavior , no one wanting to own the problem. Lots of fingers being pointed , though.

That's a problem.

as they say "put up or shut up". if youre making no effort at all to address the issues then leave the discussing them to those of us that work for it everyday.

Definition of insanity. " doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”

People (individuals) need to help themselves.

"1.Victim Identity. Quit telling people how bad you have it. Quit making it a goal to convince people that you had it as bad or worse than someone else. No matter what color you are or how hard you really did have it. If you feel that you need to explain your poverty or disadvantage to someone to explain your identity, then you have a victim identity complex, and you’re just as pathetic no matter what color you are. I’m straight, white, blue collar conservative male and I’m sick to the gills of hearing how “persecuted” straight white conservative males are. It doesn’t matter if it’s true! When did we become such whiners?? Once upon a time men took pride in overcoming disadvantages and wanted to be known for success, so they would downplay their hardships and brag about their victory, because that’s how they wanted to be identified. Today it seems that everyone just wants to win the moaning contest. We as a culture need to grow some pride again."

clap,clap,clap Dirt.

starting to think you aint the brightest bulb there...maybe too many words at once? i wasnt whining. or moaning. im talking about how despite all thats happened we've persevered. talked about pride. the last three sentences of the paragraph you quoted prove my point. by the way. a paragraph is a big group of words all together. let me know if i need to break down a sentence for you eh?

Like I said , and I wasn’t necessarily pointing out natives or our homegrown welfare recipients. I don’t live near a reservation but I think it must be more difficult for true natives to break the cycle. Here, they don’t want out of the system. It’s womb to tomb coverage. Free dental, medical, groceries, HUD rent, not just EBT cards but cash too electronically going into their accounts at one am first day of the month. Some get a nice 4,000 to 8,000 dollar check around tax time for money they “ could have made” if they worked. It’s called an earned income tax credit check. It’s like a lot of other govt. handouts and the wording is changed to make it sound better, SSI sounds better than welfare, EBT sounds a lot like DEBIT. Many work for cash while drawing a disability check at the same time. There is just no incentive like going hungry or desire to make something more of themselves. The govt. has told them they’re a victim of poverty and just stay there unless the drive and desire to escape it is kindled and a fire gets under their butts. I’ve seen very, very few break the cycle. No pride is there. They have a network like the dogs barking on 101 Dalmatians if there’s something being handed out, given away or some ne program at the social security office to sign up on. Sorry, it’s just one of my three or so pet peeves.

Everything's available,every effort made,.....yet

....

Savell that pic looks Gay.
Were you in that band the Village people,lol.

All good posts Kytrapper. I've seen the same situations here. As truly caring individuals that want to help the less fortunate, how can we correct this problem and not perpetuate it?
Other than knowing that you are created for a purpose, or starvation, I do not know how to create a desire of making something for yourself in the hearts and minds of some people.

...don’t talk about my Indian guide like that Boco !

Same oh same oh, same conversation, same problems. Until it's all right for an individual with in a tribe to strive for a better life with out persecution by other members nothing will ever get better.

Actually I was talking to both of you Dirt.

I remember when somebody said this.

" It is a symptom of poverty. Period."

I took that as an insult.

I'm not bragging that I'm poor. I'm pointing out that poverty does not make you abuse women or be an alcoholic, etc.

BTW It is my fault that I'm poor. Nobody else is responsible.