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Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: yukon254] #6376932
11/19/18 02:41 AM
11/19/18 02:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 12
Piedmont, Alabama
S
Simple Man Offline
trapper
Simple Man  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 12
Piedmont, Alabama
Originally Posted by yukon254
Got into an argument just the other day with a well know "TV" hunter over long range shooting.....its shooting not hunting, dont confuse the two. He was bragging about a rifle he had just bought that was capable of taking big game out to 800 yards. I've been guiding for over 30-years now and there is no reason on gods green earth why you should ever have to take a shot that far. Yep it can be done, sometimes, by a very few. Sometimes isn't good enough. Once you get out past 500 yards there are just to many things that can go wrong. When things go wrong you can wind up with a wounded animal, and at those distances you are not likely to get a second shot, even if you know its been hit, and its doubtful you would know. I've seen game hit much closer show no sign at all.

I've never had a hunter shoot past 300 and only very rarely that far. The vast majority of shots are under 200, and I guided sheep hunters full time for 5 years. Showing that nonsense on TV doesn't do any of us any good either. Even a non-hunter with an IQ 2-points above plant life can see how wrong things can go at those ridiculous distances.

Ok well their ain't nowhere in my state to even shoot deer at 1000 yrds. So it doesn't even pertain to me. And I guess this thread has been answered by u it is not hunting because u said so. Although I agree with most of your OPINIONS. Also their is 1 reason on Gods green earth to make a shot that far....because a person wants to. And I dont care if u have been guiding for 153 years to people who would like, that decision is not up to you! Their are people that think you shooting at 200 yrds is RIDICULOUS.

Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6376950
11/19/18 06:30 AM
11/19/18 06:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,565
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,565
williamsburg ks
I bet killing a deer with an atlatl takes as much practice as learning how to hit a dinner plate at a 1000 yards.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: yukon254] #6376980
11/19/18 07:58 AM
11/19/18 07:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,706
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,706
Northern MN
Originally Posted by yukon254
Got into an argument just the other day with a well know "TV" hunter over long range shooting.....its shooting not hunting, dont confuse the two. He was bragging about a rifle he had just bought that was capable of taking big game out to 800 yards. I've been guiding for over 30-years now and there is no reason on gods green earth why you should ever have to take a shot that far. Yep it can be done, sometimes, by a very few. Sometimes isn't good enough. Once you get out past 500 yards there are just to many things that can go wrong. When things go wrong you can wind up with a wounded animal, and at those distances you are not likely to get a second shot, even if you know its been hit, and its doubtful you would know. I've seen game hit much closer show no sign at all.

I've never had a hunter shoot past 300 and only very rarely that far. The vast majority of shots are under 200, and I guided sheep hunters full time for 5 years. Showing that nonsense on TV doesn't do any of us any good either. Even a non-hunter with an IQ 2-points above plant life can see how wrong things can go at those ridiculous distances.



My background Is similar, as are my thoughts on this.

I guess the days of “he looks like a good one, let’s see if we can get closer” are gone. Stalk free hunting doesn’t sound fun nor challenging.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6376982
11/19/18 08:22 AM
11/19/18 08:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,135
St. Cloud, MN
trapperkeck Offline
trapper
trapperkeck  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,135
St. Cloud, MN
So, ask yourself this, (not addressing anyone, specifically, here) should there be a law against making a 500+ yard shot on game? How about 750 yards? How about this, maybe, if you go to training and get an additional permit, you will then be allowed to shoot at game beyond 400 yards. You see where this is going?


"The voice of reason!"
Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6376991
11/19/18 08:40 AM
11/19/18 08:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,276
Magna, Utah
G
GritGuy Offline
trapper
GritGuy  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,276
Magna, Utah
Who and how would one enforce such a law, and why would one want to do so, things only go so far if others let them.

Should there be a law about certain open discussions because people get bent due to not agreeing or supporting others that don't care for one thing or another, see where this could go !


[Linked Image]

Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6376999
11/19/18 09:02 AM
11/19/18 09:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,565
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,565
williamsburg ks
If you guys are saying turn off the tv its doing bad things for our outdoor life, i agree

Promoting antler hunting rather than sustainable population control. Heck i bet 90% of the time a game violation is the result of “trophy” questing. That trophy quest is not doing anyone any good

Last edited by danny clifton; 11/19/18 09:07 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6377011
11/19/18 09:22 AM
11/19/18 09:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,860
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
trapper
Wright Brothers  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,860
Pa
It's my belief LDH is coming.
Forty years ago, Who would've thought
everyday Long Distance Bickering would be a daily thing?
lmbo

At one time I could hold MOST of a string in a paper plate at 500.
One little flinch and it was 6 feet off.
Never tried a thousand, would like to.
I'd likely need a sheet of plywood as an aim point.

I've worked around deer processing. It's not pretty.
In this area you cannot shoot LD.
A lot of the damage is not from hunters.

Dang deer are trouble, period.





Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6377040
11/19/18 10:20 AM
11/19/18 10:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 584
ID
O
Ole Offline
trapper
Ole  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 584
ID
Sniping is OK in a war.

Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Boco] #6377063
11/19/18 11:17 AM
11/19/18 11:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,996
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,996
Ky
Originally Posted by Boco
Shooting is only a small part of the hunt,in my opinion.If you know your limitations,your shot after the stalk can be 250 yards maybe a bit more and guarantee a 100% kill,personally I feel I can 100% kill within 150 yds on big game,so that is where I start to guage the animal for the shot.
I don't like hunting from a stand,I gave that up years ago.That said stand hunting is quite popular,especially with the outfitting crowd.


Have to disagree with you in part. SHOOTING is the biggest part of hunting. Saw a guy shoot over 15 rounds at deer standing hunting from a stand at 60 yards. First 10 was with his gun gave him my gun and he missed next 5 shots. (not at same deer) bordering a massive bedding area. I had just neck shot a doe at 150 before he took it back to his stand. So stalking ,factoring wind , sneaking, all is for not if you miss the shot.........

Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6377075
11/19/18 11:29 AM
11/19/18 11:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,490
Yukon
Y
yukon254 Offline
trapper
yukon254  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,490
Yukon
Fact is most hunters have no business shooting past 250, let alone 6,7,or 800 yards. Cant tell you how many hunters I've guided say they were good out to 500 or so, then completely miss at 200. Had a guy this year with a brand new $7000 Gunwerks rifle with Huskemaw scope. He had just taken that same companies long range shooting school, and told me he was good out to 500. He couldnt hit paper at 100. It was embarrassing. This fall the outfit I work for got paid for 8 grizzly bears. You draw blood you pay for the bear, and its $8500. We skinned 5 bears, the other 3 were wounded and never found, and not one bear hunter shot over 150-yards. An outfitter friend in Wyoming runs 80 hunters a year, and he says a full 50% of his hunters either miss or wound game. Those are the realities today. It never used to be that way, back when I first started in this business it was a rare to lose an animal.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6377076
11/19/18 11:32 AM
11/19/18 11:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 31,248
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 31,248
james bay frontierOnt.
I disagree J byrd.I have stalked many animals just to take a picture and hone my stalking skills.It is still hunting to me even without shooting.

Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Boco] #6377110
11/19/18 12:16 PM
11/19/18 12:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,996
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,996
Ky
Originally Posted by Boco
I disagree J byrd.I have stalked many animals just to take a picture and hone my stalking skills.It is still hunting to me even without shooting.


Then you where NOT HUNTING you where photoing and or stalking. DNR does NOT define hunting or call it hunting if you are carrying a camera !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6377112
11/19/18 12:17 PM
11/19/18 12:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,996
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,996
Ky
Plus geez all this because I killed a deer at 317 yrds off handed LOL.....

Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: danny clifton] #6377114
11/19/18 12:29 PM
11/19/18 12:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,996
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,996
Ky
Originally Posted by danny clifton
If you guys are saying turn off the tv its doing bad things for our outdoor life, i agree

Promoting antler hunting rather than sustainable population control. Heck i bet 90% of the time a game violation is the result of “trophy” questing. That trophy quest is not doing anyone any good


Yep controlling population mode here !!! Broke out my 6mm yesterday. Soon ask myself why I put it up for my 270 LOL... Got 10 more crop damage tags to fill ................... [Linked Image]

Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: jbyrd63] #6377116
11/19/18 12:30 PM
11/19/18 12:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,706
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,706
Northern MN
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Plus geez all this because I killed a deer at 317 yrds off handed LOL.....


No, I saw none of this as relating to what you did.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6377126
11/19/18 12:45 PM
11/19/18 12:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,043
NE ON
L
LeverAlone Offline
trapper
LeverAlone  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,043
NE ON
Well, I'll share my opinion on this, not directed at anyone in particular.

I think the distance you can stalk and approach an animal is directly proportional to your hunting skills. How many of these guys would be able to stalk to within 20 yards to make a clean shot with a recurve or longbow? That would be much more impressive to me.

Shooting 800 yards with a precision made piece of equipment doesn't impress me all that much, and doesn't take that much skill. If you have the money to experiment with these things, Its just a matter of dialling it in and away you go.

How many of these "shooters" have the skill to determine precise distances at those ranges? (Probably none). But slap up a $1000 laser rangefinder, and it will tell you. Im quite confident anyone without any sort of hunting skills could pull off these shots, as long as they have the time and money to invest in the equipment required to do it. All you have to do after that is head out for a walk and hope you can spot something within view.

I dont care how many clean kills are observed in these videos, there are probably three times as many clean misses and wounded animals that they don't show. A change in wind direction 600 yards out that you cannot see will change your bullet trajectory, possibly for the worse.

I don't think it is great publicity for hunters, as I think most people can extrapolate other outcomes of these attempts at long range shots.

Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6377142
11/19/18 01:08 PM
11/19/18 01:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,417
OK
Aaron Proffitt Offline
trapper
Aaron Proffitt  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,417
OK
I have an acquaintance who won't mention the fact that he's won " a multitude of national long marksmanship competitions against rifle shooter using my handguns ", around me anymore once I brought some salt to the table.

His "handguns" aren't handguns . They're rifles without butt stocks. They're big and heavy with customized rifle glass on them to increase eye relief.

From a technical and craftsmanship perspective , his guns are really something to see . Custom Remington XP-100's in all variants of wildcat and production cartridges. But they don't really fill the handgun niche .

Right amount of money can really increase one's skills.


Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: LeverAlone] #6377143
11/19/18 01:09 PM
11/19/18 01:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 697
Central montana
J
jwill Offline
trapper
jwill  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 697
Central montana
Originally Posted by LeverAlone
Well, I'll share my opinion on this, not directed at anyone in particular.

I think the distance you can stalk and approach an animal is directly proportional to your hunting skills. How many of these guys would be able to stalk to within 20 yards to make a clean shot with a recurve or longbow? That would be much more impressive to me.

Shooting 800 yards with a precision made piece of equipment doesn't impress me all that much, and doesn't take that much skill. If you have the money to experiment with these things, Its just a matter of dialling it in and away you go.

How many of these "shooters" have the skill to determine precise distances at those ranges? (Probably none). But slap up a $1000 laser rangefinder, and it will tell you. Im quite confident anyone without any sort of hunting skills could pull off these shots, as long as they have the time and money to invest in the equipment required to do it. All you have to do after that is head out for a walk and hope you can spot something within view.

I dont care how many clean kills are observed in these videos, there are probably three times as many clean misses and wounded animals that they don't show. A change in wind direction 600 yards out that you cannot see will change your bullet trajectory, possibly for the worse.

I don't think it is great publicity for hunters, as I think most people can extrapolate other outcomes of these attempts at long range shots.


Good grief. Truly amazing. Again, we as sportsman are our own worst enemy. First of all, why would you think anyone is trying to impress you? If I want to get in the game of long range shooting it would be because that is how I want to pursue game. I want to make it clear that I am not a long range shooter because I cant afford it. Lots of specialized equipment. But I can see where it would be a enjoyable quest. I have heard way more horror stories from bow hunters and putting one thru, or having an arrow stuck in the animal and then it runs off unrecovered.. As to positive publicity for hunters, you cant be serious. What does that even mean? People who are anti hunting are anti-period. There is no sport out there that the majority of people would claim as unethical than trapping. Ethics is not in the the way that we pursue the animal, it is in the person doing the pursuing. Any aspect of pursuit will have unethical pursuers. We as sportsman should wholeheartily endorse the legal pursuit of game in whichever way we choose to pursue it, to say that one way is better than the other is nonsense.


And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement!
Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: LeverAlone] #6377148
11/19/18 01:22 PM
11/19/18 01:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,868
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,868
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by LeverAlone
Well, I'll share my opinion on this, not directed at anyone in particular.

I think the distance you can stalk and approach an animal is directly proportional to your hunting skills. How many of these guys would be able to stalk to within 20 yards to make a clean shot with a recurve or longbow? That would be much more impressive to me.

Shooting 800 yards with a precision made piece of equipment doesn't impress me all that much, and doesn't take that much skill. If you have the money to experiment with these things, Its just a matter of dialling it in and away you go.

How many of these "shooters" have the skill to determine precise distances at those ranges? (Probably none). But slap up a $1000 laser rangefinder, and it will tell you. Im quite confident anyone without any sort of hunting skills could pull off these shots, as long as they have the time and money to invest in the equipment required to do it. All you have to do after that is head out for a walk and hope you can spot something within view.

I dont care how many clean kills are observed in these videos, there are probably three times as many clean misses and wounded animals that they don't show. A change in wind direction 600 yards out that you cannot see will change your bullet trajectory, possibly for the worse.

I don't think it is great publicity for hunters, as I think most people can extrapolate other outcomes of these attempts at long range shots.



Not trying to start an argument here but have you ever shoot 500 yards let alone 800 or 1200?? I'll bet you haven't. It isn't easy and requires not only skill but understanding of ballistics to a degree that you probably have never even thought about. To think that just anyone can buy expensive equipment, shoot for awhile and pull off these shots speaks volumes on the ignorance you possess in this matter. Just a question here, how do you know that there were all of these misses and wounded animals? That goes for everyone on here saying that . Just because you may not have the skill level to be able to do this doesn't mean no one else has it. Maybe they never wounded an animal in their lives. You just don't really know for sure do you? There is no evidence other than your "theory and conjecture" is there? Good grief, I post a video of some amazing shots and the Fudds come out of the woodwork.... Pretty sad the way I see it.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: Long distance hunting. [Re: Finster] #6377151
11/19/18 01:25 PM
11/19/18 01:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 322
wyoming/ILLINOIS
T
Timothy Offline
trapper
Timothy  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 322
wyoming/ILLINOIS
I have experienced LDH or LDS which ever you want to call it. First off I don't shoot LD. Try opening day rifle antelope season and see where LDS or LDH ethics get a short range hunter. Everybody thinks they are proficient at long range but on that day no one was. I had blaze orange on from my belt to my cap and I had them weekend LRH shoot over me to antelopes that I had crawled to within 200 yards only to have them guys shoot at said antelopes at over 700 yards an not touch a hair on any of them....I left the field after that and have never hunting opening weekend again. The shooters in question did see me as there was nowhere to hide from them- they had the high ground shooting down hill in open country.
It turns into an ethical decision as guys see someone do it on tv and think they can do the same---Most can't.
That day I was using my 12 ga. slug gun as that was what I liked to use. On the flip side of the coin the LRS "different bunch" thought I was crazy for using said gun said I needed a long range gun for antelope hunting "WHY" ? I was hunting they where shooting. Just my experience with these guys that think everyone should shoot like them...
Also I think as a guide on dangerous game I would put limits on distances. Easy enough to wound a grizzly at close range even easier to wound said animal out past 500 yrds. Guess if you need to shoot a grizz at 500 plus it will be you going after said animal after just wounding it. Why does your need for ego override my safety. See where this goes...
I would venture a guess that 10 out of a 1000 so called long range shooter can consistantly shoot tight groups at dangerous game in real time in the field where this topic matters the most.

In the videos above where all the animals shot at recovered ? Some of the black bear videos it was a bait station with a shooting lane back to the next zip code and it seems like to me it "let's see if we can do this at 700 yrds--1000 yrds-1300yrds. what is the distance where it is to far ?

I personally think ALL pursuit of game be it hunting-fishing-trapping is awesome and everyone should enjoy it. But me not wanting to be a long range shooter doesn't make me an anti anything just because I voice my opinion against it...

I'm old school and the pursuit and closeness of said game is where it is at for me. I prefer the animal knows it is being pursued. To me that is hunting

All my black bears killed are 50 yrds or less- All mule deer killed are spot and stalk @ 40 yrds or less--Killed a mature whitetail buck in a cut corn field using the terrain to crawl within 40 yrds and take him with my bow all the while my young son watched me from the truck, when I accomplished this the look on my sons face looked like he had just seen super man. That means more to me than shooting unreal distances and to this day almost 20 years later my son still tells that story.

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