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Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: wetdog] #6392073
12/07/18 12:46 AM
12/07/18 12:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,986
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,986
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by wetdog
Wrong. Read Dr Deer's research on ( is a spike always a spike) it's a bit of an eye opener to you non believes.
And there is tons more research to back that up.
Just saying

I'm not saying that his research is completely wrong (haven't read up on it). However, though age does matter, I'm a firm believer that the gene pool matters more and we don't have it. We have had antler restrictions now in PA for over 20 years (I believe). Why am I seeing the same scrawny bucks I have seen since I started hunting 35 years ago? Where are all of these "trophies"? Again, I agree, age matters but not as much as the gene pool. Look at other states that have consistent big bucks like Nebraska, Kansas, Ohio and the like. Ohio is a great example because it's close to us and has just about as much hunting pressure yet they have huge deer. My vote is the gene pool.


Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392074
12/07/18 12:47 AM
12/07/18 12:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 54
SW MISSOURI
R
Rockfarmer Offline
trapper
Rockfarmer  Offline
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R

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 54
SW MISSOURI
I am in Missouri. I Hated it when they started it - just trying to draw out of state hunters. And guess what - only took 2-3 years and now the darn CWD is being found. And the Conservation people will tell you its spread by the wandering bucks!! Ok, how bout letting us shoot them? I have despised this since the beginning. And now, only after the CWD came into play, they have dropped the antler point restriction in most counties. Our Conservation dept. was one of the best in the country for years, but now it is really spreading lies and bs. just my opinion.


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Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392076
12/07/18 12:48 AM
12/07/18 12:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,432
PA
G
gryhkl Offline
trapper
gryhkl  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,432
PA
Originally Posted by Finster
Who else HATES it?


There certainly are more large racked bucks around than before ARS.
That said; I don't think the PGC has should be the one to decide how big antlers should be to qualify as good enough. I wait for what I think is a nice buck in archery season. I don't hunt with a rifle very often, but when I don't get a bow buck I shoot the first legal buck. Hunting with a rifle is all about the venison for me.

ARs were put in place to make stop the whining that was being done by those who belived the herd reduction plan put in place at the same time. Hunters who wanted bigger bucks but lacked the self-control need to pass on shots at small bucks caused lots of the guys who just wanted to "get their buck" to stop hunting. Gary Alt usually gets the blame, but when the whole thing started he was against ARs as they did nothing to help with herd reduction. The PGC used him as a scape goat.

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392081
12/07/18 12:49 AM
12/07/18 12:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
G
grey55 Offline
trapper
grey55  Offline
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G

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
I believe research show that it is the nutrients in the soil that matter the most which is what all those mid western states have. I think antler restrictions began in 2002.


Jim
Member PTA
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392083
12/07/18 12:50 AM
12/07/18 12:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
What are your restrictions. You guys know why state DNR do that don't you. It is to try to attract non-resident hunters. IF a hunter is happy with the head gear on HIS buck that he shot then that should be the end of it. But if PA can brag "we put 79 B&C in this years harvest it makes out of state hunters look for spots to hunt. Why do you think Ky has made it to the top 5 list to kill a booner. Do we really know that it is or is our F&W just putting it out there to get the hefty non-res tag sales.....

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392090
12/07/18 12:53 AM
12/07/18 12:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
G
grey55 Offline
trapper
grey55  Offline
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G

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
It is definitely about the money. Its why the game commission sells so many doe tags. They are only hurting themselves. The number of hunting licenses declines every year. There are very few new hunters, as in youngsters, out there.


Jim
Member PTA
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392092
12/07/18 12:55 AM
12/07/18 12:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
https://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/articles/top-10-booner-states-for-deer-hunting-since-2010

Here is the list.


(Oh yea I got 2 in that book they are talking about ) grin

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: cci] #6392104
12/07/18 01:04 AM
12/07/18 01:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,757
uniontown pa
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gutthooked Offline
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gutthooked  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,757
uniontown pa
Originally Posted by cci
Originally Posted by gutthooked
Pa is full of laws I don't agree with, the point restrictions are one of them. It is very hard to count points on a moving deer with a scope and even harder to count with no scope muzzleloader hunting.

Pa deer hunting is very pathetic around here anymore no deer or hunters. I never saw a legal buck out archery or rifle hunting this year.

There was always big racks around I don't think the restrictions made anymore of them.

I think there is a bar there in uniontown that i saw some big racks.

Lol

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392108
12/07/18 01:06 AM
12/07/18 01:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,012
NW MO
T
TurkeyTime Offline
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TurkeyTime  Offline
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Posts: 1,012
NW MO
Agree with all of the reasons against and Rockfarmer you are correct.

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392109
12/07/18 01:08 AM
12/07/18 01:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
G
grey55 Offline
trapper
grey55  Offline
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G

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
If you want a good laugh, or get really upset, read the PGC deer herd management plan. Sportsman, the very people that pay for most everything they do or control, are I believe 8th or 10th on the list of priorities for managing the deer herd. It is like a punch in the gut.


Jim
Member PTA
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392110
12/07/18 01:09 AM
12/07/18 01:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
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J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
I am going to tell you about shooting does IN MY EXPERIENCE. I had 2 farms that managed/ hunted every year. Both were around 150 acres. They were in adjoining counties so terrain and vegetation almost Identical. One we shot 5-8 does off every year , the other 1 AND ONLY 1 was killed. Over a span of 15 years the farm that had only 1 doe killed produced 4- 5 130-150 class deer EVERY year. Killed one in 2015 that scored 191 on this farm. The farm the does were taken off usually had 1 over 140 and non over 150. Most years only 1 buck and sometimes 2 were killed on the doe managed farm. ALSO ON THE FARM WITH THE BETTER BUCKS we shot the scrubby jacked up ugly looking deer( kids love to kill anything). BUT we let the four point/ 6 point 1 1/2 year olds walk.

THEN the blue tongue hit last year!!!! ZERO NADA ZILCH bucks on the shooting farm. Very few does on cam or near feeders. The farm that we don't shoot does on we harvested 3 bucks on . One scored 143 other 2 upper 130's.

My opinion you have does you will have the bucks. You will have better bucks if you let the 4 and 6 point deer walk but it should be at the choice of the hunter to let them walk .........

Last edited by jbyrd63; 12/07/18 01:12 AM.
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: grey55] #6392113
12/07/18 01:11 AM
12/07/18 01:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,986
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,986
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by grey55
If you want a good laugh, or get really upset, read the PGC deer herd management plan. Sportsman, the very people that pay for most everything they do or control, are I believe 8th or 10th on the list of priorities for managing the deer herd. It is like a punch in the gut.
Post a link please


Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392126
12/07/18 01:17 AM
12/07/18 01:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,635
PA
P
PAskinner Offline
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PAskinner  Offline
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P

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,635
PA
People that say we have bigger bucks now are missing the point. Some us don't care about bigger bucks.


Right now Im having amnesia and dj vu at the same time. I think Ive forgotten this before.
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Rockfarmer] #6392129
12/07/18 01:18 AM
12/07/18 01:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
Originally Posted by Rockfarmer
I am in Missouri. I Hated it when they started it - just trying to draw out of state hunters. And guess what - only took 2-3 years and now the darn CWD is being found. And the Conservation people will tell you its spread by the wandering bucks!! Ok, how bout letting us shoot them? I have despised this since the beginning. And now, only after the CWD came into play, they have dropped the antler point restriction in most counties. Our Conservation dept. was one of the best in the country for years, but now it is really spreading lies and bs. just my opinion.


For the first time in history we had a 16 day state wide gun season. Doe harvest was allowed in counties that had never allowed it with a modern firearm. 6 deer limit (only 1 a buck) . This non-sense was a link between someone taking over our deer management that is educated in a classroom and not the woods. They came from Ga where deer are like flies on road kill in the summer. PLUS the biggest Insurance company (farm bureau) in the state lobbied (with a big check) to have more deer killed. Remember we just came off of a year that they predicted that 30% of our deer herd died from blue tongue.. IDIOTS

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: PAskinner] #6392131
12/07/18 01:21 AM
12/07/18 01:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,020
Ky
Originally Posted by PAskinner
People that say we have bigger bucks now are missing the point. Some us don't care about bigger bucks.


I didn't say that if you are directing that at me . I just gave my data . Last line in my post says it should be up to the HUNTER to let them walk or shot them........

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392133
12/07/18 01:22 AM
12/07/18 01:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
G
grey55 Offline
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grey55  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
I can never understand why hunters kill does and then complain about less deer! I hear it all the time and my answer to them is to not kill more doe. As long as they buy the tags the game commission will sell all they can.

If you are a hunter that wants a trophy buck then by all means let the smaller buck walk. However, if you just want to get a buck for the satisfaction of the hunt and to fill the freezer then it should be each individual hunter's choice. Its one thing to grow a deer herd on a ranch in Texas and its quite another to try the same tactics in the habitat we have in Pa. I'm talking public land, not private land.

I used to see 20 to 25 deer before lunch time before antler restrictions and concurrent buck and doe season. Between the much smaller deer herd and lower hunter numbers out there in the woods deer hunting has become very aggravating and disappointing. I don't see 20 deer now in 5 seasons!


Jim
Member PTA
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: grey55] #6392141
12/07/18 01:28 AM
12/07/18 01:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,986
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,986
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by grey55
I can never understand why hunters kill does and then complain about less deer! I hear it all the time and my answer to them is to not kill more doe. As long as they buy the tags the game commission will sell all they can.

If you are a hunter that wants a trophy buck then by all means let the smaller buck walk. However, if you just want to get a buck for the satisfaction of the hunt and to fill the freezer then it should be each individual hunter's choice. Its one thing to grow a deer herd on a ranch in Texas and its quite another to try the same tactics in the habitat we have in Pa. I'm talking public land, not private land.

I used to see 20 to 25 deer before lunch time before antler restrictions and concurrent buck and doe season. Between the much smaller deer herd and lower hunter numbers out there in the woods deer hunting has become very aggravating and disappointing. I don't see 20 deer now in 5 seasons!

I agree with most of what you posted. The PGC need some people to pull their heads out of their arses and cut down on the doe tag allocation. However, it can't be done willy nilly. We will wind up with CWD and blue tongue. A change needs to be made though.


Liberals are not for gun control, they are for no guns, then control!
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392144
12/07/18 01:32 AM
12/07/18 01:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,356
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
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wetdog  Offline
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Posts: 1,356
perry co.Pa
Pa deer are Borealis. Mid west up into Canada are Dakotas. Two different sub species.
There are plenty of big buck in Pa. Get out of the tree stand and find.
TV shows have hurt hunter recruitment much more that antler restrictions.

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6392151
12/07/18 01:39 AM
12/07/18 01:39 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 14,955
potter co. p.a.
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pcr2 Offline
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potter co. p.a.
i feel like i'm havin a flashback.


quality over quantity

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Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: wetdog] #6392152
12/07/18 01:40 AM
12/07/18 01:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
G
grey55 Offline
trapper
grey55  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 686
Pa
Originally Posted by wetdog
Pa deer are Borealis. Mid west up into Canada are Dakotas. Two different sub species.
There are plenty of big buck in Pa. Get out of the tree stand and find.
TV shows have hurt hunter recruitment much more that antler restrictions.



I don't hunt out of a tree stand!


Jim
Member PTA
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