Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: Finster]
#6393347
12/08/18 03:03 PM
12/08/18 03:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719 pa
hippie
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719
pa
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No need for the counting B.S. Wolfer. It's just a crutch for guys who couldn't control themselves before to shoot a nice deer. I shot the first customer that came up, and i've got as nice of deer as they are shooting now, just that i also shot deer the years i didn't see a nice one. Antlers, or what we call horns don't excite me at all. I went to the attic and dug out my nicer ones, most said i should've mounted. I just don't see the fascination with them to be completely honest. Pardon the dust on them. Front one is over 20 wide and rear on is about 16. ALL SHOT BEFORE A.R.
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: Finster]
#6393349
12/08/18 03:09 PM
12/08/18 03:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,197 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,197
Armpit, ak
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Was their a biological reason for antler restrictions? Just wondering?
Who is John Galt?
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: Finster]
#6393352
12/08/18 03:15 PM
12/08/18 03:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719 pa
hippie
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719
pa
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They wanted to reduce the herd, and this was their lolly-pop.
Interesting stat. According to the Game Comm., even with the A.R., 43% of buck killed are still 1-1/2yo. Very few make it to 4-1/2.
Let me rephrase. Very few being killed are 4-1/2.
Last edited by hippie; 12/08/18 03:19 PM.
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: yote65Ga]
#6393353
12/08/18 03:16 PM
12/08/18 03:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,149 Ky
jbyrd63
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,149
Ky
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jbyrd63...I apologize. Misunderstood your post. Sorry. This is a sore subject with me as you can tell. I should have never got involved in it. I remember when we had good times here deer hunting. Now I get more frustrated than anything else. Again, didn't mean to argue so strongly. No problem don't blame you for being touchey !! If I wanted to fill my freezer I'd shoot any buck I saw.....
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: Finster]
#6393354
12/08/18 03:17 PM
12/08/18 03:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,197 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,197
Armpit, ak
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How do you reduce the herd by limiting harvest of bucks? Thanks!
Who is John Galt?
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: bucksnbears]
#6393355
12/08/18 03:17 PM
12/08/18 03:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,149 Ky
jbyrd63
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,149
Ky
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There are LOTS of people that only get a few years a day to hunt. They may not have the time to scout. They may not have private , managed land to hunt. Forcing them to count points ain't right. Besides that, I've seen yearings with small 5 x5 racks and some. 4.5 year olds with 20+,6 pt racks. Let the people shoot what THEY want!
Most desire a huge buck, few will achieve it. I hate watching t.v. shows where it shows a dad telling akid to " hold off" for a bigger one. What if someone makes a mitake and shoots one they thought made he grade but a " point" shy. Now what?
I've bowhunted for 41 years and have had 100, s of bucks at under 30 yards and most of the time I can't tell Howe many points they have. Ok now your average is down to close to 10 deer a year LOL !!!!!!
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: Finster]
#6393391
12/08/18 04:36 PM
12/08/18 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 70 Texas USA
IWM
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 70
Texas USA
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Nationwide, greatest monetary & recreational value of white-tailed deer is directly related to the size/symmetry of their antlers. In most cases, stage of antler development is directly correlated to age of the animal. 70% of all annually harvested bucks in the US are 1.5 years old...they never get a chance to grow up. There is a great movement to "educate" hunters on the importance of maturity along with trophy status of bucks harvested. Since 8 out of 10 hunters can't (or won't) accurately field judge buck age "on the hoof", game departments try to increase average age of buck harvest by restricting antler size. A spike yearling buck retains a 20% chance of becoming trophy status at 4.5 years old, while a multiple point yearling has an 80% chance of becoming a trophy at 4.5 years old...play the odds, take out all spikes. Whitetail fawns are born about 50% male; 50% female. In a male-biased activity like deer hunting, sex ratio gets out of wack very quickly if a doe is not removed for every buck taken from a population. It is well documented that such imbalances in population characteristics like density, sex ratio, and fawn crop recruitment have profound effect on trophy antler production of bucks within a deer herd. Thus, careful regulation of these characteristics via harvest quotas can influence overall "quality" of a deer population. Serious trophy deer hunters tend to be the loudest (political) imput in state deer management plans. Meat hunters that resent restrictions can stick to killing does or spikes-where applicable. A good state game dep't will try to accommodate both types of hunters by liberalizing number and sex of deer included in annual harvest quotas. Yes, active whitetail management by state agencies sells non-resident licenses.
Wildlife Biologist
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: Finster]
#6393447
12/08/18 06:15 PM
12/08/18 06:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,197 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,197
Armpit, ak
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So we are talking " tyranny of the majority" ?
Who is John Galt?
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: IWM]
#6393504
12/08/18 07:50 PM
12/08/18 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,435 PA
coyotesoldier229
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,435
PA
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Didn't recommend 1:1 sex ratio...that is simply a target that usually nets about 1 buck to 3 does in most areas. 1:1 produces higher injury/mortality rate in bucks from more increased fighting & competition. I prefer 1: 1.5 as 1:2 gets densities too high for intense quality management.
B-T-W, I don't need to google anything, I teach whitetail management & disease monitoring seminars all over the country and currently have about 75 k acres under direct management. Be careful what you quote from your education at Google University ; as you might run in to someone who does it for real.
Thanks for your opinion. I think he just dropped the mic
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: wetdog]
#6393508
12/08/18 07:55 PM
12/08/18 07:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,435 PA
coyotesoldier229
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,435
PA
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OK I have a compromise. Just change the wording on the license and the law, from antlered and antlerless to buck and doe. If it has a twig and two berries its a buck tag. And a doe is a doe. Stop a lot of button buck from getting shot. And then shoot what ever buck you wish. I've suggested this to many people, not many like it. What say you Pa hunters? All of us neighbors get (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) if anyone shoots a button buck. Plenty of deer in farmland, can be choosier. I would agree with that. I like shooting and eating deer, always try for nicer deer. Horns a plus, meat a plus. Should always be my choice.
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: Finster]
#6393509
12/08/18 07:55 PM
12/08/18 07:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 429 Ickesburg,Pa.
bigbrad115
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 429
Ickesburg,Pa.
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There has always been a difference in a question asked by Pa. "Deer hunters" and "Big Buck" hunters in other states.
A "Big Antler" asks: " Who is the best taxidermist you know ?"
A Pa. "Deer Hunter" asks: "Who makes the best deer bologna or snack sticks ?"
Pa. has always been a "meat" hunter state and that will not change. It never has been a "Big Buck" state and it will never be one.
I'm going to open another can of worms. Some people feel that hunting over bait is somehow unethical. I disagree. I feel that there is no difference in taking a deer over a pile of corn or a pellet feeder than taking a deer in a Food plot with whatever deer attracting munchies a person has planted. I feel that when hunting over bait, a hunter can have more of a choice and more discretion on what they want to take. He can have more time to count points and either take the first legal buck he sees or he can wait it out until Mr. Big shows up. If he choose to fill a doe tag, he can either take a small yearling or old single doe. A hunter can take his time and make a clean kill, rather than shoot at a deer running at full speed, hoping that he will hit it, and if he does hit it, it may not be a killing shot at first, but somewhere down the line the deer dies anyhow. To me that is a waste.
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Re: PA, Antler restrictions
[Re: jbyrd63]
#6393568
12/08/18 09:33 PM
12/08/18 09:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,389 MT
snowy
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,389
MT
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There are LOTS of people that only get a few years a day to hunt. They may not have the time to scout. They may not have private , managed land to hunt. Forcing them to count points ain't right. Besides that, I've seen yearings with small 5 x5 racks and some. 4.5 year olds with 20+,6 pt racks. Let the people shoot what THEY want!
Most desire a huge buck, few will achieve it. I hate watching t.v. shows where it shows a dad telling akid to " hold off" for a bigger one. What if someone makes a mitake and shoots one they thought made he grade but a " point" shy. Now what?
I've bowhunted for 41 years and have had 100, s of bucks at under 30 yards and most of the time I can't tell Howe many points they have. Ok now your average is down to close to 10 deer a year LOL !!!!!! Interesting isn't it! LOL
Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
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