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Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: IWM] #6393578
12/08/18 10:02 PM
12/08/18 10:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
Originally Posted by IWM
Nationwide, greatest monetary & recreational value of white-tailed deer is directly related to the size/symmetry of their antlers.
In most cases, stage of antler development is directly correlated to age of the animal.
70% of all annually harvested bucks in the US are 1.5 years old...they never get a chance to grow up.
There is a great movement to "educate" hunters on the importance of maturity along with trophy status of bucks harvested.
Since 8 out of 10 hunters can't (or won't) accurately field judge buck age "on the hoof", game departments try to increase average age of buck harvest by restricting antler size.
A spike yearling buck retains a 20% chance of becoming trophy status at 4.5 years old, while a multiple point yearling has an 80% chance of becoming a trophy at 4.5 years old...play the odds, take out all spikes.
Whitetail fawns are born about 50% male; 50% female. In a male-biased activity like deer hunting, sex ratio gets out of wack very quickly if a doe is not removed for every buck taken from a population.
It is well documented that such imbalances in population characteristics like density, sex ratio, and fawn crop recruitment have profound effect on trophy antler production of bucks within a deer herd. Thus, careful regulation of these characteristics via harvest quotas can influence overall "quality" of a deer population.

Serious trophy deer hunters tend to be the loudest (political) imput in state deer management plans. Meat hunters that resent restrictions can stick to killing does or spikes-where applicable.
A good state game dep't will try to accommodate both types of hunters by liberalizing number and sex of deer included in annual harvest quotas.
Yes, active whitetail management by state agencies sells non-resident licenses.

Wildlife Biologist


We (Pa.) are doing the exact opposite.
We are not shooting the yearling spike and are shooting the yearling multi-points.

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6393587
12/08/18 10:17 PM
12/08/18 10:17 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,520
Champaign County, Ohio.
K
KeithC Online content
trapper
KeithC  Online Content
trapper
K

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,520
Champaign County, Ohio.
If a state really wanted to improve antler genetics and had biologists worth what they paid them. They would ban shooting trophy sized bucks and allow harvest of small bucks. It will never happen because there is to much ego and money involved in hunting.

Keith

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6393609
12/08/18 10:49 PM
12/08/18 10:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
Snowy n Jbyrd, MN has party hunting whistle. Please don't let your inaducatcy make you loose sleep wink
Killed # 187 this year with archery and still have a tag to go.
I posted those number on an earlier post for no reason other than to show even though ( I've) shot a lot of deer ( and yes, (one or two) decent ones ;), I'm still very happy for those that shoot whatever theydamnwell please!
Snowy, I may be coming out coyotes hunting near you soon. Would LOVE to meet you for a stand smile


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: IWM] #6393612
12/08/18 10:54 PM
12/08/18 10:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
Originally Posted by IWM
Nationwide, greatest monetary & recreational value of white-tailed deer is directly related to the size/symmetry of their antlers.
In most cases, stage of antler development is directly correlated to age of the animal.
70% of all annually harvested bucks in the US are 1.5 years old...they never get a chance to grow up.
There is a great movement to "educate" hunters on the importance of maturity along with trophy status of bucks harvested.
Since 8 out of 10 hunters can't (or won't) accurately field judge buck age "on the hoof", game departments try to increase average age of buck harvest by restricting antler size.
A spike yearling buck retains a 20% chance of becoming trophy status at 4.5 years old, while a multiple point yearling has an 80% chance of becoming a trophy at 4.5 years old...play the odds, take out all spikes.
Whitetail fawns are born about 50% male; 50% female. In a male-biased activity like deer hunting, sex ratio gets out of wack very quickly if a doe is not removed for every buck taken from a population.
It is well documented that such imbalances in population characteristics like density, sex ratio, and fawn crop recruitment have profound effect on trophy antler production of bucks within a deer herd. Thus, careful regulation of these characteristics via harvest quotas can influence overall "quality" of a deer population.
Serious trophy deer hunters tend to be the loudest (political) imput in state deer management plans. Meat hunters that resent restrictions can stick to killing does or spikes-where applicable.
A good state game dep't will try to accommodate both types of hunters by liberalizing number and sex of deer included in annual harvest quotas.
Yes, active whitetail management by state agencies sells non-resident licenses.

Wildlife Biologist


I do not care if you do this for a living, you are blowing a lot of smoke.

"greatest monetary & recreational value of white-tailed deer is directly related to the size/symmetry of their antlers."

Show me the study on that one, maybe in Texas but certainly not in the north and not in the west.

"70% of all annually harvested bucks in the US are 1.5 years old...they never get a chance to grow up."

Who cares? I dont, most farmers harvest nearly all of their young stock every year and maintain healthy, productive herds.

"In a male-biased activity like deer hunting, sex ratio gets out of wack very quickly if a doe is not removed for every buck taken from a population.
It is well documented that such imbalances in population characteristics like density, sex ratio, and fawn crop recruitment have profound effect on trophy antler production of bucks within a deer herd."

So again we are just going to manage the deer for head gear? Having a higher doe number means more fawns every year, more deer born yearly means higher success rate and more deer being seen. You want to manage the deer so hunters have a lower success rate and see less deer but those who hunt private land will have access to more big bucks.

"Serious trophy deer hunters tend to be the loudest (political) imput in state deer management plans."

So we manage the deer to the specifications of a loud minority?

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6393614
12/08/18 10:55 PM
12/08/18 10:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,308
MT
S
snowy Offline
trapper
snowy  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,308
MT
^Can you tell me what this means "Would LOVE to meet you for a stand". What direction from Jordan will you be?

Last edited by snowy; 12/08/18 11:00 PM.

Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: IWM] #6393617
12/08/18 10:57 PM
12/08/18 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
Originally Posted by IWM
B-T-W, I don't need to google anything, I teach whitetail management & disease monitoring seminars all over the country and currently have about 75 k acres under direct management.
Be careful what you quote from your education at Google University ; as you might run in to someone who does it for real.

Thanks for your opinion.


So you have a financial interest in promoting Antler Point Restrictions?

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6393618
12/08/18 10:59 PM
12/08/18 10:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
Well sure. I think your a nice fella and would like to meet you . Yanna, calling coyotes.


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #6393622
12/08/18 11:09 PM
12/08/18 11:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,653
Central Texas
C
Chancey Offline
trapper
Chancey  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,653
Central Texas
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by IWM
Nationwide, greatest monetary & recreational value of white-tailed deer is directly related to the size/symmetry of their antlers.
In most cases, stage of antler development is directly correlated to age of the animal.
70% of all annually harvested bucks in the US are 1.5 years old...they never get a chance to grow up.
There is a great movement to "educate" hunters on the importance of maturity along with trophy status of bucks harvested.
Since 8 out of 10 hunters can't (or won't) accurately field judge buck age "on the hoof", game departments try to increase average age of buck harvest by restricting antler size.
A spike yearling buck retains a 20% chance of becoming trophy status at 4.5 years old, while a multiple point yearling has an 80% chance of becoming a trophy at 4.5 years old...play the odds, take out all spikes.
Whitetail fawns are born about 50% male; 50% female. In a male-biased activity like deer hunting, sex ratio gets out of wack very quickly if a doe is not removed for every buck taken from a population.
It is well documented that such imbalances in population characteristics like density, sex ratio, and fawn crop recruitment have profound effect on trophy antler production of bucks within a deer herd. Thus, careful regulation of these characteristics via harvest quotas can influence overall "quality" of a deer population.
Serious trophy deer hunters tend to be the loudest (political) imput in state deer management plans. Meat hunters that resent restrictions can stick to killing does or spikes-where applicable.
A good state game dep't will try to accommodate both types of hunters by liberalizing number and sex of deer included in annual harvest quotas.
Yes, active whitetail management by state agencies sells non-resident licenses.

Wildlife Biologist


I do not care if you do this for a living, you are blowing a lot of smoke.

"greatest monetary & recreational value of white-tailed deer is directly related to the size/symmetry of their antlers."

Show me the study on that one, maybe in Texas but certainly not in the north and not in the west.

"70% of all annually harvested bucks in the US are 1.5 years old...they never get a chance to grow up."

Who cares? I dont, most farmers harvest nearly all of their young stock every year and maintain healthy, productive herds.

"In a male-biased activity like deer hunting, sex ratio gets out of wack very quickly if a doe is not removed for every buck taken from a population.
It is well documented that such imbalances in population characteristics like density, sex ratio, and fawn crop recruitment have profound effect on trophy antler production of bucks within a deer herd."

So again we are just going to manage the deer for head gear? Having a higher doe number means more fawns every year, more deer born yearly means higher success rate and more deer being seen. You want to manage the deer so hunters have a lower success rate and see less deer but those who hunt private land will have access to more big bucks.

"Serious trophy deer hunters tend to be the loudest (political) imput in state deer management plans."

So we manage the deer to the specifications of a loud minority?






Deer hunting, at least for white-tails, is becoming a pay to play game; to the misfortune for some. It has been this way in Texas for a long time, but it is also becoming that way in the mid-west and also Kansas and Oklahoma. I know first hand that the Game Department in PA sent folks down here to see how we manage our deer herd and youth hunters through education. Landowners and farmers are beginning to realize the monetary potential they can receive for deer on their properties from paying "trophy hunters".

It ticks a lot of the locals off that have been hunting properties/farms for years because they lose their honey holes to someone willing to pay a premium price. Love it or hate it, but it is the way the breeze is blowing.


Resident Conspiracy Theorist
Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, and Putin Fan Boy
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6393624
12/08/18 11:11 PM
12/08/18 11:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,308
MT
S
snowy Offline
trapper
snowy  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,308
MT
I lived here in MT all my life never heard of Yanna. LOL I have no clue where you are going calling at.


Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6393631
12/08/18 11:23 PM
12/08/18 11:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
upstate NY
M
Mr. Ed Offline
trapper
Mr. Ed  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
upstate NY
IMO bucks are like guys. If a certain bar has alot of girls (does) why would you go anyplace else ? So if an area has alot of in heat doe,why would the bucks go anywhere else ?

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: IWM] #6393759
12/09/18 08:23 AM
12/09/18 08:23 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
P
pcr2 Offline
"Twerker"
pcr2  Offline
"Twerker"
P

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
Originally Posted by IWM
Nationwide, greatest monetary & recreational value of white-tailed deer is directly related to the size/symmetry of their antlers.
In most cases, stage of antler development is directly correlated to age of the animal.
70% of all annually harvested bucks in the US are 1.5 years old...they never get a chance to grow up.
There is a great movement to "educate" hunters on the importance of maturity along with trophy status of bucks harvested.
Since 8 out of 10 hunters can't (or won't) accurately field judge buck age "on the hoof", game departments try to increase average age of buck harvest by restricting antler size.
A spike yearling buck retains a 20% chance of becoming trophy status at 4.5 years old, while a multiple point yearling has an 80% chance of becoming a trophy at 4.5 years old...play the odds, take out all spikes.
Whitetail fawns are born about 50% male; 50% female. In a male-biased activity like deer hunting, sex ratio gets out of wack very quickly if a doe is not removed for every buck taken from a population.
It is well documented that such imbalances in population characteristics like density, sex ratio, and fawn crop recruitment have profound effect on trophy antler production of bucks within a deer herd. Thus, careful regulation of these characteristics via harvest quotas can influence overall "quality" of a deer population.
Serious trophy deer hunters tend to be the loudest (political) imput in state deer management plans. Meat hunters that resent restrictions can stick to killing does or spikes-where applicable.
A good state game dep't will try to accommodate both types of hunters by liberalizing number and sex of deer included in annual harvest quotas.
Yes, active whitetail management by state agencies sells non-resident licenses.

Wildlife Biologist

DR.Alt,is that you????









Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: pcr2] #6393778
12/09/18 08:46 AM
12/09/18 08:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,927
SEPA
L
Lugnut Offline
trapper
Lugnut  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,927
SEPA
I was thinking the same thing!


Eh...wot?

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6393901
12/09/18 11:10 AM
12/09/18 11:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,835
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
trapper
Wright Brothers  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,835
Pa
Bet the night hunters like these regs.
A shot in the dark made me think of that for the first time.

Didn't the Doc get promoted to a cushy sales position?





Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6626589
09/27/19 11:52 AM
09/27/19 11:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
G
gryhkl Offline
trapper
gryhkl  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
Gary Alt did not want antler restrictions to play any part in what he was given the task of doing-reducing deer numbers(herd reduction). It was a trade off to please deer hunters by filling their heads with images of "trophy bucks" being common enough that even the most casual hunters had a good chance of killing one.

Young bucks are supposed to be the deer that are most likely to travel far from their place of birth. If that is a fact, ARs could be speeding the spread of CWD. Plus, I don't think the PGC has any place dictating what qualifies as a trophy to any hunter who buys a license.

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6626591
09/27/19 11:53 AM
09/27/19 11:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,056
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,056
Ky
Grhkl this post is to back up a claim NOT CURRENT !!!!!

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6626607
09/27/19 12:16 PM
09/27/19 12:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
You sure did a horrible job trying to back up a claim laugh
Sure didn't seem like I ran away from that thread so fast my shadow didn't know where I went laugh
So, you're the " older gentleman" that figgered out the average? crazy wink

Hooked on Phonics and whatever medicine folks with dementia take should be on your Christmas list.
smile


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6626630
09/27/19 12:50 PM
09/27/19 12:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
Don't know Bucks, I see where you claim...."pushing 400" a couple pages back.

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6626640
09/27/19 01:01 PM
09/27/19 01:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
Indeed I did hippie, but bigmouth JByrd claims I said " over 400".
I'm just here the prove him a LIAR, and I DID smile


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6626641
09/27/19 01:04 PM
09/27/19 01:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
Kinda splitting hairs, you threw out the 400 number but are correct that you didn't say on or over.

Re: PA, Antler restrictions [Re: Finster] #6626644
09/27/19 01:12 PM
09/27/19 01:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,249
western mn
smile
I knew I didnt ;
Moving treestands from bear spots to deer spots today.beautiful day to be in the woods.
Don't care to play on the internet while doing so but it's like a train wreak. Ya can't help but watch it laugh

Now Hippie, ( and others), since he thought he " had me) and said I should pay up on the bet, do you feel he accepted that bet?

Last edited by bucksnbears; 09/27/19 01:16 PM.

swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
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