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Marten wrestling 2018 #6393648
12/08/18 11:52 PM
12/08/18 11:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,153
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline OP
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waggler  Offline OP
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Alaska and Washington State
(This is a duplicate of what I also posted on TrapTalk)
Just got back into town for more fuel, then back out for another week or so. I've mentioned before that I live trap marten and release the females. Marten have a relatively low reproductive rate, and since female marten are only worth about half of what a male is worth I think it's more productive to release the females. We put our cage traps into wooden boxes with the floors cut out so the cage trap sits about 3/4 of an inch above the ground. That allows urine and feces or fall through the trap so the marten stays dry, we also put a good quantity of bait in the trap so the marten has plenty to eat.

The video I've linked to shows how we determine the marten's sex before we either release or dispatch it.

Today I released 6 females.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryWecW-G75U&feature=youtu.be

Last edited by waggler; 12/09/18 10:29 PM.

"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6393653
12/09/18 12:09 AM
12/09/18 12:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,654
Idaho
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vegasjim Offline
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Idaho
That’s awesome!

Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6393932
12/09/18 12:13 PM
12/09/18 12:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
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yukon254 Offline
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yukon254  Offline
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Yukon
I've never noticed that much difference in prices on males vs females, but it cant hurt to let a few females go. I know a trapper here that used to use cage traps in Finland and he also released a lot of the females. He said it was nothing to catch 600 in a season.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6393962
12/09/18 01:01 PM
12/09/18 01:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,441
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
"American Honey"
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Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Thank you for this fascinating info and video . Anytime you'd care to share more would be appreciated also cool

Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394036
12/09/18 02:29 PM
12/09/18 02:29 PM

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Oh Snap
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Oh Snap
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Cool video. I have handled live marten and along with being bitten the claws can cause a nasty scratch. I have seen them bite through welding gloves.

Are you trapping in Washington or Alaska?

I have ran over 200 marten traps, to change to cage traps would make it unprofitable for a bunch of years.

Last edited by Oh Snap; 12/09/18 04:42 PM. Reason: Add to conversation
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394139
12/09/18 04:29 PM
12/09/18 04:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,295
Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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Northern MN
Really interesting, thank you.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

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Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: ] #6394227
12/09/18 07:05 PM
12/09/18 07:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,153
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline OP
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waggler  Offline OP
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Alaska and Washington State
Originally Posted by Oh Snap
Cool video. I have handled live marten and along with being bitten the claws can cause a nasty scratch. I have seen them bite through welding gloves.

Are you trapping in Washington or Alaska?

I have ran over 200 marten traps, to change to cage traps would make it unprofitable for a bunch of years.

Trapping in SE Alaska.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394233
12/09/18 07:18 PM
12/09/18 07:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
I know it is almost impossible to differentiate between adult and juvenile female marten without looking at the reproductive tubes.That said,releasing all females is better than killing them all.
The only problem is that the highest mortality in juvenile marten when the carrying capacity is set is the juvenile females.So some of the resource will go to waste that otherwise could have been harvested.
Personally,I would harvest all marten early and keep an eye on the ratio of all juveniles and adult males to Adult females.After the main dispersal of juveniles is done which will be indicated by a rising ratio,then if I wanted to keep trapping I would release all of the subsequently captured females.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394298
12/09/18 08:39 PM
12/09/18 08:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,153
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline OP
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waggler  Offline OP
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Alaska and Washington State
^^^^^^
I question whether or not marten in my area disperse like they do in the extensive boreal forest areas. My marten occupy relatively narrow forested valleys, half way up the mountain sides turns to extensive alpine ridges that run for 20-30 miles before converging into vast glacier/ice fields.
In other words these marten are pretty much confined to half mile wide timbered valleys. They would be very easy to trap out, that's why I prefer to error on the,side of caution.

Last edited by waggler; 12/10/18 12:15 AM.

"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394321
12/09/18 08:52 PM
12/09/18 08:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Whether they disperse or not,the carrying capacity is finite and the numbers will be pared back one way or the other each year.You are correct in that in fragmented habitat,when a population of marten drops to critically low numbers from either overtrapping or from natural circumstances,they take a very long time to repopulate if at all.

Last edited by Boco; 12/09/18 08:59 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394400
12/09/18 09:45 PM
12/09/18 09:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
I don't know that I would agree with that. Prey species can also fluctuate up and down. So if X is the carrying capacity for marten in a particular drainage...next year it could be 10X or X-10. It will always fluctuate. I know you remember the small mammal failures of a few years back.

So personally, I think it's a good idea to release females, particularly in the late part of the season. That's one of many reasons I prefer foot hold traps over body grips. Tough to release them from a 120


Mean As Nails
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394432
12/09/18 10:06 PM
12/09/18 10:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
I agree the carrying capacity varies each year.Sure some years are better than otherswhen it comes to total numbers of animals,but there are always more animals produced in the spring than the land can carry in late winter which is the critical time,in a normal reproductive year.I believe the reason marten can repopulate an area of good habitat so fast after a crash is that a reproductive failure removes pressure on the recovering prey species in the following year.

Last edited by Boco; 12/09/18 10:21 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394459
12/09/18 10:42 PM
12/09/18 10:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
Yeah that might be . On the other hand, if both marten and prey are at a low levels, it could affect pregnancy rates in marten if they are not in good enough condition


Mean As Nails
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394469
12/09/18 10:59 PM
12/09/18 10:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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I know things are different in different places,but in all the years I have trapped marten here,and from talking with a lot of trappers in the region as well as the regional and district bio's,there was only one time when the marten crash lasted more than one year in the core habitat.They were non existant in most places for 2 years in a row,with some pockets here and there in the second winter.That was around 2005\06.The Bios wanted to zero quota the trappers for two years after the first year,and our provincial assn fought that.We felt that if all trappers were zero quotaed for 2 years we would never be able to get a handle on what was going on with the population by not having any data from the carcasses.We agreed to a 80% reduction in quotas for two years.In the second year (3rd year after the crash) the trappers had the proof that the marten were back in good numbers with high juvenile count to allow re instatement of full quotas 1 year early.If we had been zero quotaed we would have had no proof of what was happening on the landscape.
I know trappers who depend on marten really take interest in ensuring that their populations remain healthy on the landscape.It is good to hear What you are doing Waggler and how you have managed your marten successfully over the years in your area.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394487
12/09/18 11:48 PM
12/09/18 11:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 270
alaska
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trapped4ever Offline
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alaska
Boco,
Are there a plenty of LARGE (200 sq. miles+) refugia areas, of good, quality, marten habitat, between each trapline, in the region of the crash?? It sounds like a mix of inadequate refugia, prey crash, and hence a reproductive failure, to have the scenario you mention.

Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394532
12/10/18 02:11 AM
12/10/18 02:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
trapper
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Armpit, ak
YOY females probably worth $30, be good year to let them go. If they die anyway, you are only out $30. If they live, they may make you a $60- $80 male in the future.

Last edited by Dirt; 12/10/18 02:35 PM. Reason: They are not pregnant.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394541
12/10/18 02:46 AM
12/10/18 02:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
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yukon254 Offline
trapper
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Yukon
Reproductive failure is almost always caused by an inadequate food source. I know it does happen, but Im not sure it happens as often as some think. I think during lean years marten will move completely out of an area. That can give a trapper the illusion that marten numbers have crashed when in fact they have just moved out of an area all together. I also believe that at times, these distances can be many miles.

No scientific evidence to back these thoughts up with, but its something I have observed on a small scale.

I know wolverine will move out of an area entirely in lean years. You might not see a wolverine track for two or three years, in areas where they were common in good years. The wolverine didnt die, they moved out in search of food.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

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Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394542
12/10/18 03:07 AM
12/10/18 03:07 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 765
Anchorage, Alaska
broncoformudv Offline
trapper
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Anchorage, Alaska
Waggler I think you need a new screen name. Marten wrangler or some such nickname. You are way braver than I am, those guys always make too much noise and their teeth look like they would do a number on my fingers so I try to keep my fingers away from them.

Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394813
12/10/18 11:59 AM
12/10/18 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,153
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline OP
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^^^^^^^
The audio wasn't very good in the video. I was trying to explain that you want to keep your hand balled up in a fist, and that if you let your fingers dangle down they will get latched onto. The marten will make a peck or two at your fist and as long as you don't flinch they sort of give up on the idea.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6394908
12/10/18 03:00 PM
12/10/18 03:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Since ADF&G information states that marten start dispersing in late summer. My guess is the young are mostly dispersed by the beginning of trapping season?confused


Who is John Galt?
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