Anyone attending this important Manitoba fur sale might give us some feedback about it on Trapperman.

I bet you prices are down at least 25% over last year on marten.

Gibb, No doubt, but this will tell us the attitude of the buyers, ie. Northwest Company, Bruno, etc. I personally am always interested going into the season what the perception/outlook of buyers in the country is. What do you think of the Red Fox market??

What red fox market lol. I have no doubt that there will be interest in the marten, the question will be at what level. From what i have heard the harvest numbers are good this year. The buyers will be gun shy this year after what happened last year.Pretty hard to get excited when you still own the ones you bought last year. Could be interesting anybody that shipped to NAFA last year after the tables made out ok. The rest either still own them or loss money.

Marten went for a high of $60

Can. $$

if they where the heavy northern type marten? wow down 35% from last year! anyone have the sale average? any Montana type on the sale?

That would be in Canadian dollars
No Montana types there.

I wouldn't take the prices from that sale as an indicator of prices at the auction.Lots of those skins wind up putting money in someones pocket when re sold at the international auction later.The prices at that sale are more in line with the advances paid by the auctions.

Actual Robert it is a good indicator of what the market is doing, on an average year 2500 to 3500 marten show up at the sale. The biggest cash crop that in most years are easy to sell. Most of the trappers will sell to private buyers while other will take an advance and ship.
Going by the numbers $ I would bet more will ship this year.
Last year if they sold at the tables they came out ahead of the market, this year the buyers will be a lot more cautious having loss money last year.
The buyers who shipped to NAFA made out ok because of the February sale and the large Korean buyers who made the difference last year.
The buyers who shipped to FHA lost money and are still waiting for the bigger sizes to sell since they held them back in a falling market.
Some years the prices at the Thompson tables are ahead of the market, it is interesting that this year the first international auction is not till almost the end of February.

I will bet you a dime to a dollar Nafa will get more for the marten than anyone selling at the Thompson fur table.
From all the years I have been following that sale results in the Canadian trapper magazine,it made me sick to see how the trappers get ripped off compared to the auctions.I seen it here in the earlier days too when we had the buyers like Ratcliff in Cochrane and the Northern Store in Smooth Rock.Many trappers sold there to get fast money,but at a big discount compared to those of us that shipped.You can bet that fur went to the auction putting money in someone elses pocket.This was so bad years ago that Ralph Bice and the boys started the OTA fur sales.They were sick of being ripped off.
It is good for the town of Thompson,as the Northern trappers spend their money there for Christmas,which is important for them.Just a shame they are taken advantage of because of that.
That is my opinion.The Thompson Fur table is important to the Northern people.And I realize those that travel there to buy need to cover their expenses.
Jim do you ever wonder why there are no more local fur buyers in Canada,when there used to be one in every town?
I agree with your asessment of last years marten sales at NAFA and FHA as I had a good amount and equal lots of marten at both venues last year.
The previous year was quite the opposite.

boco it is what it is....you cant take old previous markets from past years and twist them to fit your agenda. we are talking about TODAYS MARKET....

A lot of effort goes into this from the Manitoba Trappers Association. A part of the grant comes from Manitoba Hydro (electrical company) to hold this event. The MTA also bring up a lot of trap supplies so they get a bargain in shipping.
Interesting that they require 4 buyers there and they have to be Manitoba resident to hold a fur buyers licence. Some years it has been a challenge to get there with 4 buyers.

Wallfur my post is straightforward,nothing twisted and no agenda whatever that crap means.I know the market well,today and past.What is your point and where are you coming from.Sounds like you have some kind of "agenda"

boco my point is your constantly posting on how great nafa and there certification is!......gets alittle old! especially certification, it will finish off the fur market and trapping as we know it.

Why will signing a piece of paper stating that all laws were followed be the end of the fur market and trapping?

mink99..hows certification working out for your mink farm? great prices? we already have enough restrictions on trapping...ask boco how he likes the canine traps that are now mandatory in Canada. he don't use them! that's why there ok with him!! but go ahead and throw the other canine trappers under the bus .....so sign away today but what will they want tomarrow? once you start down a slippery slope its hard to turn back.

You guys are idiots,I never mentioned certification in this thread at all.
And when did I ever say Nafa was better than FHA???I ship to BOTH!-Morons.

Boco, Last year the trappers that sold at the Thompson tables did better than those that shipped to either NAFA or FHA (for the most part), so sometimes a savvy seller CAN make out selling elsewhere.

I don't believe that.The best marten sale last year was at NAFA.FHA marten sale in Helsinki was a bust.Better goods still unsold.
The year before that the best marten prices were at Helsinki FHA.
I just looked up the numbers.Northern Manitoba marten which are hvys-Thompson $96-Nafa $120.all CDN dollars-BIG difference.

Ouch boco you hurt my little feelings but name calling is always the last line of defense. its easier than admitting your wrong!!! Reguardless what happened last year.....the botton line is the marten market is in the tank this year!!!!##

We shall know soon enough.If what you say is true then the price at Thompson earlier sale should be better than the NAFA later one.(unless ,well,you know).
The last time marten was "in the tank"was before I ever started shipping fur.

Maybe i should sell to you....then you can send them to nafa and make killing.

I sell fur I don't buy fur.Send your pelts to Thompson.

Do Idaho Marten grade out as Montana type Marten?

Most of the time they do. Occasionally a few will get bumped up to the better sections.

yes wissmiss is correct.

......yes that is very obvious!

Ok, so then it’s possible that your Marten are in the tank this year, which by the looks of it they always are in the tank.
I live in Manitoba and I wouldn’t send my fur to the Thompson sale. I agree with Boco.

yes true I asked that question before I posted. but this thread posted northern marten as selling 35 % lower than last year.......so I guess you can draw your own conclusion then!.....but yes northern marten always sell way higher than Montana types.

Question- in a typical year (if any such thing exists anymore), what is the more valuable fur per cm2, northern marten or western U.S. bobcat? Bobcat is a much larger pelt...

interesting question....some of the western cats sold as high as 1600 on the country sales here. that's a lot of marten pelts. that being said the country sales on western cats( in most of the country sales) average in the 200 dollar range.....so do you compare the best cats to the best maten? kinda tough to compare in imo.

......marten sold a lot better on the country sales than they did at nafa or fha.so if you want to compare sales. compare them all !!! nafa and fha aren't the only sales out there.

Name one where good hvy and semi hvy marten did better than NAFA last year.

Ok, how many cm2 of usable fur on a big northern marten and how many cm2 of usable fur on a big western bobcat? Or sq inches. Either way.

Last march FHA topped the western cat sales with a 99% clearance and $759 avg on several thousand western lynx cats.

.......well first ,lets let nafa and fha finish selling them!!!!!!!! they are still holding most of them. your trying to compare nafa cherry picked averages to the country sales averages that have 100% clearances. when i said better thats means both prices and clearance.......go back to sewing mittens!

.....boco that was average of the ...A .. colored cats that don't enclude the ..b.. colors.....have you ever seen a western cat??

Boco, what's been your (or a typical Ontario) averages on your marten over, say the last 5 years?

Ok, here's some wild a** guesses about the amount of usable fur on a marten and a western bobcat. They may be way off but I'm trying to figure out that price per unit of usable fur. Tell me how far off I'm on these measurements and give me a usable average, multi-year price per critter.

Marten= back: 22 x 4 inches= 88, belly: 22 x 3= 66, total 154 sq inches.

Bobcat= back: 38 x 9 inches= 342, belly= 36 x 8 inches= 288, total 630 sq inches.

Best avg on marten was $186 the latest peak a few years ago.
Last year $70 both at Nafa.CDN dollars.

Ok, ball park average over the past 5 years for good marten, $115 CDN...?

I would say you could count on a 100 buck avg for quite a few years there.I never really averaged out the thousands of marten over a bunch of seasons.Some years our dollar was at par or above the us dollar,so you would have to avg that out too I guess.It is not good for us as exporters when our dollar is above or at par with yours.

Ok, I found a site that average US vs CDN for the past 5 years. The ave was $1.26 CDN for every US $ so make things easy and say $80 US dollars for ave good northern marten for the past 5 years. Take my 154 sq inches of usable fur on a marten (based on my estimate of size in the post above, don't really know how close that is to the truth) and divide that $80 by 154 sq inches and the result is that each sq inch of marten (average) was worth 52 cents.

Now, how does that compare to the square inch value of an average good western bobcat...?

https://www.ofx.com/en-us/forex-news/historical-exchange-rates/yearly-average-rates/

I think if you look at this sale for what it is it is a good deal for all the trappers in that area.
Most of the trappers are native trappers coming into town wanting to sell their catch for cash.
Without the tables they would sell their catch really cheap to either a local buyer or a Northern Store, a lot was sold backdoor of a taxi cab.
With the tables the trappers can sell for cash and or get an advance from the auction house in a competitive market. They don't have to wait 3 more months to get a cheque in the mail.
Some years the Thompson fur tables prices exceed the auction prices and some years they don't.
It's a huge influx of cash for the town of Thompson and the local retailers share in the success of the sale.

thanks gibb... good post! and I totally agree, anytime you can give producers more options to market there prouducts that's a good thing. that goes with any product not just fur.

Sounds like the Canadian version of Groney!

That's a little misleading, was that the top at both sales or the average?

Both auctions separate/grade their fur, so if you're comparing what the heavy section of marten did at either of those sales did to what ungraded trapper lots brought at another sale (like the Thompson Tables) of course the Heavy section did better than an average run of trapper goods.Not all of the marten that show up at a trapper sale grade Heavy or all semi-heavy.

They are not graded on a trapper sale that way, sometimes the overall average is a better indicator of how well a producer does with their catch than than what they get for their best goods, stop and think, why do so many western bobcats show up at the Nevada sale, or so many coyotes show up at the Colorado sale?

If they are not graded you will never realize a top price for the best pelts.

Groney Rocks!

.....yes you will..everything is graded! reread wy.wolfer posts he is spot on!

So, does anyone know sale averages and numbers? Manitoba trappers??

Saw the farmed sable sale in Russia was a disaster.

I’ve never understood how people can compare nafa/Fha directly to any small sales that do not separate sec III, hvy, semi, Montana etc etc
It’s not possible to DIRECTLY

Interesting.
I'm glad our friends to the north have options other than the auctions. I didn't know this.

The amount of fur and prices at the sale