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Grading Fur Standards #6414101
12/31/18 08:58 AM
12/31/18 08:58 AM
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nunya,ks
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tbn Offline OP
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Who sets the standard for grading fur and should everybody use the same guidelines? I have always believed the 2 Canada houses set the standard or is there a standard?

Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414113
12/31/18 09:11 AM
12/31/18 09:11 AM
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Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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The grading "standards" if you want to call them that were set generations ago. What changes is demand in general, and demand for specific grades within a species. During periods of high demand a particular skin of slightly lower quality might be pushed into the next grade higher. This doesn't mean the standards have changed, just that a potential buyer at an auction will grudgingly except this practice. Don't expect this to happen during a down market though.


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414136
12/31/18 09:39 AM
12/31/18 09:39 AM
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WadeRyan Offline
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You know it's no secret Scott. Kind of like in a hot coon market I was 50% northern and 50% north central. A couple years later my coons were 75% north central and 25% grading western semi. Nothing changed in quality between that time, but the market fell out from under them. Just as Waggler pointed out those coons were likely western semi the whole time, but got pushed up in a hot market. Looking back at the nap from those times they likely were western semi that I had caught early and I just happened to ride the bus on a hot market. You've already made up your mind so why don't you throw them on the truck and stop worrying about it or just quit beating around the bush and let it fly.


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414158
12/31/18 10:17 AM
12/31/18 10:17 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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As the market changes,different skins of the same value to the buyer will get intersorted at the auction.
Its all about how the skins are used,dictated by fashon trends and what the buyers want in an assortment.
In the high value high fashon furs you wont see this as much,or at all.In the lower grades and damaged you will see a lot of different sizes,colours and clarities mixed because they all have basically the same value and end use.
Grades do not change,but the intersort does in response to fashon.

Last edited by Boco; 12/31/18 10:24 AM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414175
12/31/18 10:36 AM
12/31/18 10:36 AM
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Starvalleytrappe Offline
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Standards? What’s that? Lol

Kidding aside
It seems as if standards are not the same all the time. For one thing many buyers have their own standards in regards to where they intend on selling. These change all the time. Same can be said about the auction houses. Between the two auction houses the grade is not necessarily the same. And the auction houses change their standards to try to market the skins the best way in their opinion.

So that is why I say “what’s that”
There is more or less a standard but it gets pushed all over to suit individuals needs or desires


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414211
12/31/18 11:04 AM
12/31/18 11:04 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Here is the grading standard for muskrats for example(they do not change)from the fur encyclopedia. [Linked Image]


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414223
12/31/18 11:11 AM
12/31/18 11:11 AM
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Boco
It changes and everyone knows it
You can call it “intersorting” if you’d like
But if 1100 skins are in a 3xl SEL lot it should all be 3xl SEL not intersorted with I*


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414248
12/31/18 11:29 AM
12/31/18 11:29 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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If they are all valued the same there is no reason to break them down.Buyers want large lots and in many cases will pay the same price for a 1 or a select because there is not enough skins of that size quality.Same value-one lot.

Why do you think the O and 1's in beaver are intersorted?There is not enough skins of the one size to stand alone.So the buyers orders are filled with equal quality the next size down.It makes no sense to not intersort the two grade sizes.
The grades cannot change,skins are what they are.You do not seem to know the difference between individual fur grades and a fur assortment.

Last edited by Boco; 12/31/18 11:31 AM.

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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414253
12/31/18 11:42 AM
12/31/18 11:42 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Fur grading by a trained competent fur grader is quite precise.How the grades are intersorted to meet buyers requirements does change with market demands and fashon trends.


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: Boco] #6414295
12/31/18 12:26 PM
12/31/18 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Boco
Fur grading by a trained competent fur grader is quite precise.How the grades are intersorted to meet buyers requirements does change with market demands and fashon trends.
Boco, why do you imagine the term "Chinese grade" came about? Any buyer of skins at either auction house (especially NAFA) knows exactly what this term implies. I'm pretty tired of it now. I agree that a competent grader can sort skins very effectively, unless they have been instructed to do otherwise, most of the senior graders with many years experience are gone or about to go, compounding the problem.

Last edited by wy.wolfer; 12/31/18 12:31 PM.
Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: Boco] #6414321
12/31/18 01:03 PM
12/31/18 01:03 PM
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waggler Offline
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Originally Posted by Boco
Fur grading by a trained competent fur grader is quite precise.How the grades are intersorted to meet buyers requirements does change with market demands and fashon trends.

Exactly.
A fur quality on a raccoon that was a #I, a #II(2), a low #2, or a #3 or #4 was the same in the 1970's as it is in the 2010's. Like has already been stated, often times I's and II's are mixed together for value, and 3's&4's are almost always combined.
Sizes are more standardized now-a-days than they ever have been. Colors are also fairly standard, but of all three characteristics colors are probably the most subjective. I have never been able to sort mink as to color, coon on the other hand are one of the easiest.


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414324
12/31/18 01:04 PM
12/31/18 01:04 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Wolfer-The graders at FHA have been there for years and the new ones at NAFA have been trained by the retiring graders.Some of the retired graders work as fur brokers because they know fur.
You are also confusing pelt grading with lot intersorting.
Waggler understands the auction intersorting process.

Last edited by Boco; 12/31/18 01:07 PM.

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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414330
12/31/18 01:15 PM
12/31/18 01:15 PM
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So is the show lot a good representative of the lot? Or is the show lot cherry picked?


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414334
12/31/18 01:17 PM
12/31/18 01:17 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Show lots are representative.
If you are talking about the promotional top lots-those are the best of the best,and are marketed as such all the way thru the pipeline.


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414339
12/31/18 01:21 PM
12/31/18 01:21 PM
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coloradocat Offline
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Gotcha, was just making sure the I's were in with the SEL on the show lot.


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414347
12/31/18 01:34 PM
12/31/18 01:34 PM
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nunya,ks
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tbn Offline OP
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Boco for my own personal understanding,let's talk coyotes. Is the so called pencil test the standard for acceptable skins? Example, as written,eraser and some of the pencil disappears that is what Nafa considers a semi heavy coyote?

Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414350
12/31/18 01:39 PM
12/31/18 01:39 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Jim Gibb could answer you that.I think the pencil thing that Jim wrote about is just a general way for a trapper to gage what kind of skins he has if he does not have hundreds to compare with each other.


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414353
12/31/18 01:42 PM
12/31/18 01:42 PM
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nunya,ks
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tbn Offline OP
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Yes I read it.

Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414362
12/31/18 01:51 PM
12/31/18 01:51 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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[Linked Image]
Here are your coyote grades.You can see the depth of the fur clearly differentiates prime from early.


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Re: Grading Fur Standards [Re: tbn] #6414364
12/31/18 01:56 PM
12/31/18 01:56 PM
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Starvalleytrappe Offline
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Nope I’m not confused at all
I understand intersorting
I understand making large lots

However, I do not understand why a catalog grade will say sel but in fact the lot itself has been intersorted.
And I also understand that there have been many times that nafa has been challenged for having the show lot not be an accurate representation of the lot.

So....this means nafa changes the grade to suit what they feel is the need or acceptable. I.e a sel lot that has I-II type skins but is not labeled as such.
The grade on the skins did not change but the grade on the sheet did


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