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Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? #6458187
02/11/19 04:29 PM
02/11/19 04:29 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 161
Lebanon, Missouri
H
H5Farm Offline OP
trapper
H5Farm  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 161
Lebanon, Missouri
After having a forestry guy come out and go over my property that I recently purchased, which is 77 acres against the national forest it was decided that several trees needed to be harvested. There is no sign that any logging has ever occurred on this property at all. It is so full of trees so much that nothing grows on the forest floor there is no undergrowth or browse at all.

So I had a guy come out who is a "professional logger". He has good equipment, several references, his sister works with my wife and several employees. They will be harvesting most red and black oaks and some hickory trees. They will only be harvesting a few white oak trees. He is on the USDA approved loggers list, and the State Conservation area logging list. He is a clean cut guy and requires drug test for his employees he told me. He said he has a million dollars in equipment running every day. He said it would take him less than 60 days to get on site and start then 4 to 5 weeks max and be done and gone.

He wants to do a 60/40 split or $700.00 a semi truck load. He said the loads will average between $675 to $735 a load at the mill. He usually just averages them to make things go faster if people want to do it that way. He says is works faster and is less accounting for him and less of a paper trail.

The last property I sold logs on 5 years ago had really good walnut and a lot of white oaks were harvested. This was a 50/50 split deal. I had to wait until the got the receipt from the mill and cashed the check to get my share once a week. These guys also were the Meth using type and we hard to keep on task once they had some money in their pocket. The job was 80 acres and it took them 7 months.

So 60/40 split or the easy route of $700 a truck load??? There will be reportedly 20 to 24 truck loads harvested. All this money will go back into the property to put in two new ponds and 4 food plot areas as well as some equipment upgrades.

Last edited by H5Farm; 02/11/19 04:37 PM.
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458195
02/11/19 04:39 PM
02/11/19 04:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 18,725
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
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trapper les  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 18,725
williams,mn
Are you trying to justify wiping out all your trees?

I wouldn't cut them down just to give some logger with a sales pitch, a temporary job, after all, it takes a while to reproduce those trees.

It's your land.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458198
02/11/19 04:40 PM
02/11/19 04:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 198
Henry Co, IL
3
3togo Offline
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3togo  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 198
Henry Co, IL
Ask him what he expects for the total amount of board feet he will have loaded each time on the semi. You can go to your state website and find out what they suggest is the going price per board foot for each species being harvested. You should be able to come up with an average price per truck load. However, my brother and I used to do 50/50 with landowners. That way if there are differences from load to load in price you will see the exact sale price.
We did logging part time. Our goal was always to cut 5-6000 board feet each weekend. Sometimes it would be a little more. Log buyer would come on Monday to grade and haul away.
I take it you are getting the 60%?

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458201
02/11/19 04:43 PM
02/11/19 04:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 198
Henry Co, IL
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3togo Offline
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3togo  Offline
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Henry Co, IL
Also, you have him sign an agreement that they wouldn't cut anything smaller than 20", measured 12" off the ground. You would be able to go back in 20 years and log again. You might want to keep an eye on progress if he agreed to that.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458202
02/11/19 04:44 PM
02/11/19 04:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 509
vermont
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vermontster Offline
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vermont
I personally would check with a forester. In VT the county forester will make you a forestry plan and mark trees to cut. Also hickory trees have a mast crop every year and are a good food source for deer and other wildlife. Never hurts to get a second opinion especially if it's free. VT also has a current use program that defers your taxes as much as 80-90% except the years you log then you pay the full tax for that year.


The bitterness of poor quality last a lot longer than the sweetness of low price
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: 3togo] #6458203
02/11/19 04:44 PM
02/11/19 04:44 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 161
Lebanon, Missouri
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H5Farm Offline OP
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H5Farm  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 161
Lebanon, Missouri
I had a forestry guy come out and survey the whole place and write up a wild life habitat paln. He was the one who said it needed logging bad as there is no cover for wildlife and the trees are choking each others full growth. The logger is a diff guy who wants the 60% cut because its less desirable wood. in the last few years around here 60 /40 their favor is what most people charge

Last edited by H5Farm; 02/11/19 04:58 PM.
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458220
02/11/19 04:56 PM
02/11/19 04:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,390
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
There are so many ways for a land owner to get ripped off on these logging deals I don't know where to start. I can think of more land owners who have been taken than otherwise.

You or your representative MUST be on site as any loads are leaving the property, and it's best to take a picture of each load from the back so you can get a log count. This must be agreed to in a logging contract, you must have everything in writing.

All funds should go straight from the mill into an escrow account to be dispersed as agreed to after the logging is completed. A local attorney can do this for you.

Make sure you also have an agreement as to the condition the property is to be left in, such as logging slash stacked, scattered, or chipped, etc..

I would also hide a trail camera where the trucks will be leaving the property just in case they decide to "work after hours".

Get at least one more bid, if not two.

Good luck.


My life is better than your vacation
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458223
02/11/19 04:58 PM
02/11/19 04:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 409
South Dakota
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Rhino7 Offline
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 409
South Dakota
I have marked timber for people that is going to be cut, but I am no expert. BUT I will say that almost any logger you talk to is going to get the better end of the deal if he marks the timber to be cut. As someone suggested earlier, call your local forester and have him come out and take a look and give recommendations. Back home the local SWCD employee(who was a certified forester) would come out and inventory your timber and mark the trees to be cut. This way the ONLY trees to be cut had paint on the stump and that should be in the contract. It amazes me how many people will take the word of a logger and let them have their way with a stand of timber, it usually looks like a tornado came through when they are done. The forester should be able to give you an idea of board foot per species that has been marked and an idea on price, if he is good at his job then he will be pretty accurate. Good luck if you let him make the decisions!

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458232
02/11/19 05:05 PM
02/11/19 05:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,130
MN
1
160user Offline
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160user  Offline
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Posts: 12,130
MN
I would do a percentage rather than a flat rate. At $700 per load he may be more inclined to just pull the good "pickles" and leave the lesser quality stuff. At a percentage there is more incentive for him to take some of the garbage too. Make sure you agree on what the logging site should look like prior to him leaving. And being it is against the National Forest GET IT SURVEYED prior to cutting anything! Even the US Forest Service surveyor may work and it should be free of charge.


I have nothing clever to put here.





Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458235
02/11/19 05:08 PM
02/11/19 05:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 431
PA
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lumberjack391 Offline
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 431
PA
Go lump sum and get at least 12 bids on your timber. Why do you feel you need to have him do it?

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458237
02/11/19 05:09 PM
02/11/19 05:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,351
SW PA
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white marlin Offline
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SW PA
why would you trust the BUYER's word for:

a. what needs to be cut
b. how MUCH he cut
c. the QUALITY of the timber he cut
d. the spacing of the residual trees
e. the QUALITY of the residual trees
f. the QUANTITY of the residual trees
g. the VALUE of what he cut


"We didn't come all the way out here just to 'feel them on the line.' "
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458238
02/11/19 05:09 PM
02/11/19 05:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 31
Ohio
HondaXR250 Offline
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HondaXR250  Offline
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Posts: 31
Ohio
Sounds like a horrible deal to me. Personally id never ever cut down nut trees. If i was logging on my property, id take every tree but nut trees. All other trees are weeds

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458239
02/11/19 05:12 PM
02/11/19 05:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 391
Brazil Indiana
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harrison72 Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 391
Brazil Indiana
Unless I were seriously strapped for cash, I wouldn't log it if I were you. However,if I did decide to do some logging,I would check out prices and see what is currently in demand, timber is a comodity. For example, white oak may be extremely valuable now and hickory may be worth very little. It's your woods and I am not a professional anything, but I would make sure I wanted my woods to look like a bomb went off in it before letting a timber crew work it over for a month and a half. Best of luck.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458244
02/11/19 05:16 PM
02/11/19 05:16 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 16,447
potter co. p.a.
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pcr2 Offline
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potter co. p.a.
giggity-giggity


quality over quantity

Hickory Garden Farms
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458250
02/11/19 05:19 PM
02/11/19 05:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 244
pa.
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jarentz Offline
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pa.
My friend just sold 500 trees and was paid up front before a saw was started.


jarentz
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458265
02/11/19 05:26 PM
02/11/19 05:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 818
rogers city mi.
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jeff karsten Offline
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Posts: 818
rogers city mi.
A forest has to be taken care of which means thinning out some mature trees read the fine print and make sure your both on the same page as far as what gets cut I've seen blocks of timber leveled because it stated all salable timber on the contract


olden tyred
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458272
02/11/19 05:32 PM
02/11/19 05:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,986
Lower Alabama (Daleville)
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LAtrapper Offline
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Lower Alabama (Daleville)
Have you checked out this thread- Timber values- https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6287199/timber-values


Note to self- Engage brain before opening mouth (or hitting the ENTER key/SUBMIT button).

Ron Fry

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458274
02/11/19 05:34 PM
02/11/19 05:34 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 363
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Southern Illinois
We used to have a state tax which I think was 5% on timber. The game warden was in charge of that, Dont know about your state.

Wouldn't let them in during muddy months. Every tree they rub good likely will have a bad bottom in years to come.

If they will make one road like in the middle and pull to it is better than just driving in a new place every time as if looking for new path in mud.

If you can get capital gains maybe wont have to pay social security tax.

If its old timber hanging on and a storm comes thru it can cost you.

I sold timber 35 yrs ago and I'm getting mad just giving you suggestions, lol.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458276
02/11/19 05:35 PM
02/11/19 05:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 898
west ny
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bulldozerjoe Offline
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west ny
Id hire a forester, they charge around 10-15 percent,


No matter how much money you make, always eat good🐠
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458278
02/11/19 05:38 PM
02/11/19 05:38 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 16,447
potter co. p.a.
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pcr2 Offline
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potter co. p.a.
www.logger haters anonamous. laugh


quality over quantity

Hickory Garden Farms
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