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Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458430
02/11/19 08:48 PM
02/11/19 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,461
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
W
white marlin Offline
trapper
white marlin  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,461
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
say your mom and dad left you a used car lot that you know nothing about (they bought it after you moved out of state, you haven't been back, yada yada...).

and someone offered to buy "some" of the cars from you for $1800 each...

you don't know how many are month-old Porsche 911's, or how many are 1973 Pintos. probably some BMW's, but how many?

would you sell without knowing what you have?

if you do, the buyer isn't likely to waste his time with the Pintos, but that's what YOU'LL be left with, after the sale.

Last edited by white marlin; 02/11/19 08:57 PM.
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458432
02/11/19 08:50 PM
02/11/19 08:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,283
PA
L
lumberjack391 Offline
trapper
lumberjack391  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,283
PA
Id call Mecums and have an auction

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: Golf ball] #6458435
02/11/19 08:51 PM
02/11/19 08:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,129
west ny
B
bulldozerjoe Offline
trapper
bulldozerjoe  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,129
west ny
Originally Posted by Golf ball
The last forester I talked to charged 10% and did all the leg work, he measured and marked all trees to be cut and sent out up to a hundred bid packets to loggers around the Midwest. In my case I wanted a select cut with only the ash trees removed as they were going to die anyway ! You can have YOUR timber cut anyway you want and a good forester should be more than willing to work with you if you have thoughts of your own ! If your willing to let anyone have more than 50% of your logs then I have some swamp land for sale , lol !


Listen to this^^^^^


No matter how much money you make, always eat good🐠
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458447
02/11/19 09:00 PM
02/11/19 09:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,787
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
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charles  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,787
Asheville, NC
Why would he owe SS tax on a lumber sale? Just asking.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458449
02/11/19 09:00 PM
02/11/19 09:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,787
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
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charles  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,787
Asheville, NC
Why would he owe SS tax on a lumber sale? Just asking.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458467
02/11/19 09:11 PM
02/11/19 09:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,171
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
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upstateNY  Offline
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U

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,171
ny

sounds like a hose job.Worth more than that as firewood.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: pcr2] #6458473
02/11/19 09:14 PM
02/11/19 09:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,656
idaho falls idaho
trapr Offline
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trapr  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,656
idaho falls idaho
Originally Posted by pcr2
disclaimer [Linked Image]

you need to set down and have a long talk with someone who knows how to use one of those for real, it is not swung like an axe and used as a striking instrument. grin

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: charles] #6458488
02/11/19 09:26 PM
02/11/19 09:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,579
Duluth, MN
C
Clark Offline
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Clark  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,579
Duluth, MN
Originally Posted by charles
Why would he owe SS tax on a lumber sale? Just asking.


If he did it right, which very few landowners do, he could pay zero in taxes on this timber sale. Now, he would have had to have the timber appraised by a forester and then set up a timber basis for his property which costs money but the potential savings in taxes can be significant. Timber, if cut after more than one year of owning the land, is taxed as a capital gain which is 15%. If you sell $20K worth of timber (not difficult to do) you’ll owe $3K in taxes, which is less than most appraisals.

Clark


Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458489
02/11/19 09:27 PM
02/11/19 09:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,283
PA
L
lumberjack391 Offline
trapper
lumberjack391  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,283
PA
It would out perform any stihl, even in that condition

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458495
02/11/19 09:29 PM
02/11/19 09:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,892
eastern WV
R
Ridge Runner1960 Offline
trapper
Ridge Runner1960  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,892
eastern WV
white oak prices are up now , if all he's cutting is white oak, get an idea on the price in board ft.
RR

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458579
02/11/19 10:44 PM
02/11/19 10:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 39
OR
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Brady wayne Offline
trapper
Brady wayne  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 39
OR
I would clear cut it. I.am a timber faller and have worked in the woods my entire working career. Clear cut it and replant it. Makes great feed for deer and elk bears you name it. I would do 60/40. Just go In off.my experiences. That way you profit the most and have a fresh healthy forest starting over.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458716
02/12/19 12:37 AM
02/12/19 12:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,958
Va
P
pass-thru Offline
trapper
pass-thru  Offline
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P

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,958
Va
What was the purpose of the forestry guy if everything is being left up to the logger? If he has a million $ equipment, why will it take him 4-5 weeks to cut 20-24 loads? How will he pay for his equipment the other 4 weeks?

I had a client a few years ago that got taken at least 50-100K by a smooth talking logger. Deal on a handshake, good Christian logger.

I'm glad you brought this up here, but this really is about the last place you should be relying on to make these kinds of decisions.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458757
02/12/19 02:26 AM
02/12/19 02:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,213
central Missouri
B
Bigfoot Offline
trapper
Bigfoot  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,213
central Missouri
Foresters are just as coruptible as loggers. After all the whole premise for their existance is that all loggers are thieves.,but they need loggers to harvest the timber they sell or nobody makes money . Just remember a forester needs relation ship with loggers he can work with .more than he needs a single landowner that he might deal with every ten to twenty years .there are good foresters and good loggers educate yourself and talk to as many people as you can

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: Bigfoot] #6458784
02/12/19 06:10 AM
02/12/19 06:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,461
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
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white marlin Offline
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white marlin  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,461
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
Originally Posted by Bigfoot
Foresters are just as coruptible as loggers. After all the whole premise for their existance is that all loggers are thieves.,


not true, at all. (well, except that there are bad foresters, as well).

the reasons to hire a forester include his/her expertise in managing your forest for present and future productivity.

if you make a mistake in forestry, you and your kids and grandchildren will pay for it.

and yes, your forester will protect the landowner's interests (financial, tax considerations and condition of the land following the harvest) with a good, solid contract.

do your homework on your forester, too; and hire a GOOD one....you'll be glad you did.

Last edited by white marlin; 02/12/19 06:12 AM.
Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458787
02/12/19 06:39 AM
02/12/19 06:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 666
VA
coolbrze Offline
trapper
coolbrze  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 666
VA
As an arborist, I would hire a forestry consultant to put it out for bid w/ multiple logging companies. I can tell you this... they are in the process of harvesting 250 acres near us and have left total devastation. There are many options for harvesting, certain trees w/ a minimum DBH, etc. Make sure you have a written contract in hand outlying what is to be cut & what isn't. Back to my 1st recommendation - you pay a forestry consultant to protect you & watch over the operations so that neither party gets screwed. That's their job & I can guarantee they're better at it than either you or me.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458813
02/12/19 07:47 AM
02/12/19 07:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,283
PA
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lumberjack391 Offline
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lumberjack391  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,283
PA
Loggers cant make money cutting cull trees and leaving genetically superior seed trees, and most landowners are looking for the most money and don't give 2 licks about future production.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458859
02/12/19 08:53 AM
02/12/19 08:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 26
TENNESSEE
L
lgtrapn Offline
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lgtrapn  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 26
TENNESSEE
If you talked to ten different foresters, you would likely get ten different harvest plans. Everyone has an opinion on how timber harvest should be done, but in the end it comes down to what the land owner wants. You should make sure both your forester and your logger know what you are manageing towards, and make sure they are capable of meeting you requirements. I am a 4th generation logger, and we seldom have to go through a foresters or sign contracts. We are know locally for being honest and working with land owner to achieve his or her goals. But if you are not comfortable dealing with loggers directly then a "good and knowledgeable" forester is certainly the way to go. My biggest piece of advise would be not to take advise from "foresters" online. No one can know what your woodlot needs without walking through it, with you preferably. And to the rest of you guys that apparently got took by your logger I must apologise, they're are many crooks in this industry, loggers and foresters alike. Perhaps more homework was required.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458872
02/12/19 09:08 AM
02/12/19 09:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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gryhkl Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
Have you had your timber scaled to see how much is on your land?
Have it scaled by a professional and put it out for bid.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458943
02/12/19 10:03 AM
02/12/19 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,136
B61-12 vicinity, MO
T
TreedaBlackdog Offline
trapper
TreedaBlackdog  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,136
B61-12 vicinity, MO
You don't have to hire anyone - call your local MDC office and ask for the forester. Tell him what you would like to do and what your goals are. Here in Missouri we have an excellent system with MDC and the forestry division. They will mark up your timber according to your plans and stocking rates and then advertise and you can get multiple bids if you so choose. Also - you can apply for a forestry management plan through USDA/NRCS and you will get funded for the plan. You then can select a TSP to write up the plan for you and get your rates at what you are stocked at and how many board feet you can remove. Don't listen to some of these folks that say I'd never cut a nut tree. An over stocked nut tree is still that - overstocked and your woodland will never be as productive as possible. Forests are to be managed and that includes timber harvest and sales. Walnut is at a premium now and white oak is high and also preferred over reds/blacks and hickories. There is a decent stave market close to you for white oak.

Re: Logging 60/40 split or $700 a truck load??? [Re: H5Farm] #6458955
02/12/19 10:10 AM
02/12/19 10:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,036
New York
F
Fire Fly Guy Offline
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Fire Fly Guy  Offline
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Posts: 3,036
New York
Hire a Timber consultant. Around here they come in, mark the trees to be cut, figure out the board feet, managage the process and require a bond for property damage and put the logs out to bid............ before they are cut, so you know exactly whats coming to you. They do this for 10%.

When we had ours logged, the bids were from $15,000 to $66,000 thousand. pretty big price swing........... and we had our money in escrow before a tree was ever touched.


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