Teacher, being comfortable in uncomfortable situations should be a skill many or if not all should be able to do. You raved about how much information was given in the paid instruction class but when it comes to basic fundamentals in offering bait to an animal that should naturally be appealing by offering a variety of odors instead of one particular odor wasn't taken away from it.

Also just because guys have been there and done that, doesn't mean they are on the properties you're trapping or dealing with the environment you are trapping in. May look a lot a like in photos but there are many things going on with them critters when they prowl through the night. I could tell and show someone how I set and bait a trap and be successful at it, but will it always work for that individual? The majority of things that are being used by folks work for them on this site, so are you saying you had to pay for instruction by trappers for a lot of the information that's given out free of charge on some of these forums and believe it only because the "trap professors" said so?

It's like the folks who go and set up a cam in an area with a ton of sign and place some bait for several days and not have one picture of the target animal on it. Then blame it on the bait and goes out and purchases more bait. It's a trend until the animal hits that area again and bingo that bait is the magic in the bottle they needed, until they go and set another trap. Like when you're out and about and the wind hits you just right and you instinctively turn in the direction of the odor, but didn't realize the odor has been there the whole time.

So based off of your instruction what kind of foundation was built regarding "trailing scents" at this class? From what Jonsesie types, is that they went over all this? That's what I'm not understanding, I think it's a good topic for someone who is planning to take these classes if your not even coming out with a basic fundamental understanding of what is given out for free on forums from many who trap and are successful at it. We all will continue to learn until our ticket is punched, being successful falls on whether or not we can comprehend and implement what is taught in a real situation, and common sense will go a long way when it comes to trapping coon.

I have to laugh at some of what you wrote. Not because it’s funny but because of the way I learn. You’re right, there’s been a heck of a lot of things offered on Tman by people who successfully catch coon. I’ve tried some but I’ve gotten myself into a rut because I’ve found baits that work one season but either failed the next season or the animals weren’t there and I got discouraged. So I went back to old ways that became the rut.

Ron showed us a bait station trail and how he would use a cage near the trail. What was new was how he played the wind. In 40+ years of cage trapping coon during trapping season, I’ve never considered how the wind affects coon working a cage. Since the school, I’ve talked to several others around here and they say they’ve never considered wind when using cages either; or that cages might be seen by coon as a negative. In my mind, if the coon is in the trap when I get there, who cares? DPs the same. I’ve never considered wind. I should have but didn’t. After all these are just dumb coon, right? Then again, maybe the dumb one is me.

As a nuisance trapper, you get this. As a fur trapper, I should, but didn’t.

Ron showed multiple-bait use for DPs and cages. Trailing scents were not covered or at least it isn’t in my notes. My method of using a trailer is a squirt around the trap, up and down what I perceive is the trail. The school’s approach wasn’t like that at all. Jonesie’s method is to put a couple of drops of lure in front of the cage. Three drops, each being a different product, in front of the trap. We’re both talking trailing scenting but Jonesie’s definition is different than mine, and from the comments on this thread, is perceived differently by a lot of people.

Cameron Kelsey and I were talking about this issue the other night. We both sort of concluded we might be missing animals because their interest never brings them to the trap. The Jonesie method of 1 drop each of 3 different lures in front of the trap and then a couple drops of each back in the trap should bring them in better than a solid squirt of essentially one mixture over a distance of 5-10 ft.

This was a learning experience taught by people who make their living successfully, I might add, by being both nuisance and fur trappers. Ron and I have talked a bit, emailed a lot and I have respect for his experience and opinions. I didn’t know Newt or Morgan but recognize their names. Each brought things I didn’t already know, or have forgotten because I stopped using that application. I watched other people trying to get their heads around different things, too. These instructors taught us from their experience and took whatever time we needed to understand what they were talking about.

Now, before anyone says multiple baits/lures in a trap is just the way a bait maker sells more product, the quantities used per trap are very small for both cages and DPs. The same was true for the dirt holes Morgan demonstrated. Nothing is getting a dinner type quantity. The animals I’m exposed to in the fall and early winter seem to be pretty well fed. What this method does is provide snacks as opposed to meals. And at this rate it’s not going to break the bank.

I’d like to do this school again, just to pick up what I may have missed.

Everything you typed ^^^^ has been talked about in depth by some pretty darn good trappers who may not make a living trapping due to their own wants and needs, but I guess because they offered it for free and didn't ask for $ for it...it wasn't believable, guess they got the last laugh. When it comes to adc whether you make a living doing it or not, you need to be darn good at it when it comes to making $ and dealing with other peoples $ by knowing how to remove the animals and solve their problems. I can tell you with confidence playing around with a weak or concentrated odor for a trail scent isn't the answer. I can see the humor in what was typed.... lol, it's all coming together now, I'm convinced trappers need more shepherds.

I spent a couple hours mulling what we’ve talked about and it boils down to two things with multiple subsets.

Education is a two part thing. What the instructor provides and what the student internalizes.

From what I’ve learned over the years, a good instructor will tell you what they’re going to teach; teach the concept; and then summarized what they taught. From the student’s perspective, they’re primed for it, they get it full on and then they get it a second time in the form of a summary. All of this is part one.

The second part is how the student internalizes the information. That comes in the form of understanding, actual application in the field and being able to pass it on in the way they learned it from their instructor. Included in this is the application applied by the student based on their own experience.

The lesson Jonesie was teaching about cage use along a trail showed the cage/DP being a negative (it wasn’t there the last time the coon came thru). He put it just a couple of feet from the line of travel. The wind direction was from the back of the trap towards the trail. The bait and luring application was novel in that there were multiple smells coming from his cage, which were meant to find out what would entice the coon into a situation that was negative (to becoming a positive) and to find out what odor would do that. Jonesie’s “trailing scent” wasn’t a directional squirt but just a couple of drops to pique curiosity, not to satisfy it.

TDHP, if you’re successful squirting a solid stream of trailing scent to attract your target, that’s fine. I’m not saying it shouldn’t work or that it doesn’t work. What I am saying is that Jonesie and company provided me with another way of doing things, the chance to look at it from all sides, and to challenge them about what they were saying. Maybe it’s just me but I learn better by interaction with instructors and to a lesser extent by reading about it.

The return on my dollars is going to be how successful I am at getting the target animals. Will I get one and then none, or get a bunch because they no longer see the trap as a negative? Jonesie pushed the 80/20 concept all the time. And for the ADC/nuisance animal trapper, getting the 20% smart ones along with the 80% dumb ones gets you paid. The class gave us the tools to understand this and it’s applicability on the fur line. I couldn’t have asked for more.

Sir, I'm just trying to understand how one goes and pays for instruction on how to trap animals and in that same curriculum goes over bait/lure strategies from the same folks who you typed that you respect their opinions because they do this for a living. Then to take down dozens of pages worth of notes and then comes to ask ^^^ on a forum where many great trappers have been responding to hundreds of threads like this one on everything you have referred to in this thread that you have learned which has been talked about by who many to believe "know their stuff". That would include all of your threads including the bait and lure threads.

To then have your trap teacher type what he typed? You type you would go again to pick up what you missed? I'm curious on what was gained if you are starting at square 1 again on value of the scent trail when you had paid instruction on them, or to not have the end of the trap facing a trail so that you could utilize wind,40 years of trapping and just now utilizing wind to your advantage? That would discourage some from wanting to take a well talked about class by you if basic information is all that was attained, and still not understanding.

You mention multiple bait and lures and how folks try to sell more products by the pitch. Your instructor has typed on other threads on how he uses "multiple baits and lures in cages", I believe 3 to 4 so I'm confused now, seems like you fell for that pitch.. Keep in mind, good bait and lure provide variety in their entirety.

When I talk about appealing, I talk about it in a variety of attractive offerings to the animal in that bait/lure. 1 to 2 baits or lure tops, depends on my mood. I apologize if I'm out of line, just don't make sense to me. Enjoy your day Sir.

Trailing scent is a term that I think we all have a different definition of depending on the animal, depending where we are from, and who knows what else. For example I have seem many post on here and have done it with beaver or a couple dead rotten coon in a burlap bag, where the trapper will drag a dead cow/ horse/ sheep/ goat a distance and set traps at the bait. The bait being drug from maybe one trail across 1 or 2 more trails is laying down a trailing scent. Objective was to cross travel trails to get the attention and hopefully the animal will follow the scent to the source. No matter what wind direction bait is from travel. I teach this method in dragging deer scent lines in my Deer scent talks, and can get deer to trail 50 to 300 yards when done right and using the correct scent. so will fur animals when done right.

The same scent used as a trailer could also be used as a positioning scent. or a segregated added odor. For example in the last pics given I would have not thought of needing a trailing scent there, For me, I mean really the traps can be placed right where the coon is walking so the coon walks into or onto the trap of choice, so the same trailing scent could be used as a position scent or added exciter, just not run in a long line. the coon is going to point A and B so put the trap there. For me Definition of a trailing scent is a scent that is used to pull the animal off a course of travel, in a different direction that they would not have gone. My thoughts may not be everyone else.

I think, but maybe wrong, Teacher correct me If I am off base here. Using the spoke line method at your DP trap as you described because you is setting the trap at the general location coon are there, but not on the x where you are convinced the coon is going to hit the trap with it's nose. ( the x method of trap placement is my preferred trap placement but can not always be achieved ) so you are thinking, to make sure a coon walking 10 feet left or right, high or low has a chance at your set, you run trailers. I have and will also do it in those spots that are 20 - 30 feet where the coon can walk anywhere it wants. I will not just trust the trailer, but make sure I have sight added at the set. sight may be the cage trap and a flag over it. Maybe the DP mound set or dirt hole I showed you maybe flagged. It may be just clearing the ground litter or digging the soil up soft in a 3 foot circle????? anything to draw attention in a bigger spot to a smaller spot.

Having confidence in the baits and lures we use can go a long way, That also is with trap placement and location. (Location based on method or method based on location) LOL But every good coon man out there, if they are honest, have seen and will see coon walk right past or around with out missing a step our best baited lure sets and leave us scratching our heads LOL Depending on the mindset the coon is in, hungry food, snacking coon being coon or trying to get lucky LOL so in the late season, I will some times run a gland lure drag trailer just to stop the big ole bore with love in the air on his mind in those bigger spots or as a exciter leading into a cage trap. Or better yet I will just set cable LOL Again maybe I am totally wrong because I do things differently than some Really great trappers LOL

Thanks for clarifying Jonesie. Yes, I missed some of what you’ve just written. I wrote notes on what I could but there was a lot I may have missed. Old brains aren’t as nimble as younger ones!

If I had availed myself of this level of education years ago, I’d probably be a better trapper today. And I don’t think I’m alone in this. Look at the people going to programs put on by June, Jagger, O’Gorman, Graham, Boddicker, Jepson, Jameson if he does it, and so on. People are going for ideas. They’re going for answers. They’re going to be challenged. And yes, I think they’re going, to be sheparded through ideas that could make them better.

It’s a lot of stuff to take in. But it’s no different than taking a driver’s ed class (for seniors citizens) after you’ve been driving for a number of years. Or a refresher from the Red Cross on the current techniques for CPR. Or the continuing education classes for any number of professions that have continuing Ed requirements. It’s good to get new ideas and refreshers on old ones. But I stand on my previous statements: I couldn’t have asked for more from a group of instructors or the information they provided. Good people. Good information. Time well spent.

TDHP,

The class gave me more tools/knowledge to work with but I still have a lot of questions from my days of doing things “my way” so that’s why I ask questions here. Being stubborn, I’ll probably not adopt the New Jersey School way of doing things 100%. But I’m going to try a lot of it including using multiple baits and lures in DPs and cages. I’ll start using snares and flags over traps and trailing scents to intrigue rather than feed. When the season’s over I’ll evaluate how it went

Please understand, I went for coon trapping. The school also covered otter, beaver, coyote, grey and red fox snaring and the use of 330s in tidal marshes. Once again, good people, good stuff and a good time.

Simply stated Trailing scents are effective for a variety of applications. I have used them for hunting and trapping since the early 70's. The concept and use of some form of scent trailing has been around for many years. Like Ron Jones stated very well, his findings and experiences mirror my own through my lifetime.

Well stated Ron, you shared very good points and explanations. It takes years of testing, field observations plus some trial and error to be able to share that workable knowledge with others. You and Newt do a good job with your school as I have heard good reviews over the years.

I agree, seems like they learn a lot in that class. Tomato -Tomahto

I think that Teacher's best learning method is visual as he stated. It's one thing to read about something, but quite a different thing to see it done for those who learn best visually. When i was an instructor in the military, I noticed there were students that did well by reading then there were those who would not grasp the material to its fullest until they saw it. I'm thinking that going to this school gave him a much better learning experience than just reading what has been posted on here.

Teacher, one of the basics we were taught in instructor school was to tell the students what was going to be presented, present the material, then summarize what you told them. The same thing as your explanation - " a good instructor will tell you what they’re going to teach; teach the concept; and then summarized what they taught."

Teacher - "I’m a visual learner and I like to ask questions. In that regard I probably drive instructors crazy. But I’m not afraid to listen to those who’ve been there, done that, and are willing to educate me on different ways of doing things. Just like you do when you post from your experiences."

Mr. Dobbins, just wondering how one can pay for a class that teaches what a lot could consider advanced strategies that went over the Op's original question in class with hands on experience in the use of bait/lure and trail scents, and then go back to the site that put you in a rut when it came to bait and lure. I apologized for being out of line and agreed that the class is good for trappers.

TDHP I only directed a statement to Teacher about the school because he was there and he mentioned about an article I had written, If he wasn't there, my reply to him would have been different, if any reply at all. I could tell the way he was wording his posts and he stated after my first post, that he did not put together the way I showed him how to run a 12 to 18 inch line of lure into the cage or up to the dug in dirt hole, that is the same in concept as a 10 foot trail line in to a set. but a short trail line has less chance of the coon being a coon and become consumed with something else or loose interest, as you and I both know coon will do. Also he asked about a call lure, rather than a trail line. A trail line and air currents pull the animal yes, but do so by 2 different ways. which when understood, each way can have positive or negative body positions or movement to the animal depending on the type of set or trap the person is using, or can be positive when both are used at the same time. I apologize If for some reason you took my post as trying to promote the school or that someone can only learn when they pay. I wasn't. Nor am I saying that what I do is the only right way, as it is not. and I am not saying that I am the greatest trapper out there, I am not and I am humbled every time I get around a group of trappers like the conventions and last years mink fest and listened to trappers far more advanced than I, Bob Best I met for the first time last Sept and was in awe of the knowledge the man has and the humbleness he has. Red O Hern, I met for the first time and even though he and Zag had a good time with me when I opened the door( had a lot of fun with both) LOL I respect and would take instructions from both because truth is, they know their stuff and I can learn from. GOD shows me every day most of the time by a DUMB grey squirrel, I am not the best out there and I must keep learning every thing I can because what I know does not even scratch the surface to what needs to be learned.

Mr. Jonesie It's evident that the students that come out of that class are well educated in the trapping field. I get it Sir, and you have a great school along with great teachers.

I didn't read any of the pervious posts.

But as a fur trapper I'm going to set traps where the coon want to be and that means a food source. And for the most part a trailing scent Isn't going to draw those coon away from that food source. So I think using a trailing scent Is a waste of time and money.
Learn the habits of the animals and the food sources those animals are using and you won't have to worry about any trailing scent.
Food sources change with the seasons and the coon relate to these changes and so should you. Don't make this any harder then It should be.

^^ I was starting to think I was the only one thinking that way.

Trailing scent use or any other lure or bait isn't about pulling them from a food source. It is about giving them opportunity enticements along the way.You still have to set up and present traps along noted travel ways or access' to the food sources or feeding areas. From water to agriculture then into the hardwood slopes, vines, fruit stands and ridges. You need to find where the food sources are in your area.

If they aren't along the water around here they go to the wild grapes and cherry trees. Others hit the winter corn that isn't harvested yet due to poor harvest weather or some other reason. Some coon just play the field and do all of the above.. You just have to do your homework and you will eventually find them if that is what you are targeting. I catch most of my largest coon in predator sets every year and in hay storage areas.

Scents are not magic but a valuable tool to increase your results when placed along feeding areas, traveling routes and good denning areas of coon. You have to know when they begin to move from one source to another. That is what being a trapper is all about. Knowing about when those cyclical patterns occur come with experience and time served learning your target specie behavior.

Trapping isn't complicated but it does have a learning curve that we all have to go thru to put all the parts together to reap the rewards. We the old timers have learned much of this years ago but others are still working their way to a clear picture. That skill only comes with working in the field for some time or by tagging along with others to catch on faster.

Trapping is an accumulation of knowledge and circumstances that prepare you for better results and understanding of what you are doing on the line each season.

If I have beat down trails along the stream banks headed for the corn field In most cases with enough traps placed along those travel ways I will have caught most of those coon before they even get to the corn field. And there are times when the coon never leave the corn until It's harvested. That's when you just gang set the field edges. And a good loud coon lure at the set Is all you need.
There are times when you might use a trailing set but for the most part It's get them when they are traveling from spot to spot.

Thanks everyone. This has been very educational.

After all that, I don't use trailing scent, set where the coon is walking and has to step over the trap [DP] use the right bait. I f your setting a few dozen traps that's one thing but if your running a few hundred every thing you do takes time, even if it's 30 seconds.