sold some coyotes last week... had a couple #1 brought 60.... the rest were #2 brought 40.... that's about what I thought I would get... broke even for the year, and have more to sell, so i'm happy. from what the guy in the window told me #1 are hard to come by in my area

And you believed him?

How much is that coyote in the window? Now I cant get that tune outa my head. Groeny Rocks

last years prices at the auctions were very very good,im glad your happy with what you got for your fur.

unless I sell to nafa, choices kinda slim around here.... also nafa wants 11% to sell my fur. I think its a wash... thought I did ok considering the 3 in front of me only brought 15 per.. guess I don't really know where to sell them

yeah... most of the ones around here aren't that heavily furred.... different ballgame than where your from

You know what your fur looked like, and you're happy with the price you received. That's what counts. I thought Groeny treated me fair on my rats when I sold to him. If someone sells theirs for more, I'm happy for them. Prices on your best coyotes sounded pretty good to me.

I would have been happy with those prices.

No.I mean you believed what a fur buyer told you about your fur?

And I suppose you believe everything NAFA tells you?

You are confused-NAFA is not a fur buyer.Yes I think their info is rock solid.Just check out their rat and beaver videos-top notch.

I didn't say NAFA was a fur buyer, I asked if you believed everything they say.......NAFA is the mis information king of the fur industry!

I'll bet you've never even graded an IL coyote. They're the opposite of an Ont. coyote I can tell ya that.

Wrong again(except about me grading coyotes).I know most of those guys in Toronto and they know more about fur than you ever will.
Guys like Paddy Hall,Ron Lancour,Dave Bewick,Jeff Guillemette,Steve Gamblin,Therese Demers,Bob McQuay,and numerous others,all honest highly experienced graders that have shared lots of their time and knowledge with trappers.
I take offense at you calling them dishonest.

Big difference between graders and Nafa brass.

Shows what you know,some are/were Nafa Brass.

fight nice kids

If you deal in any large amount of fur, a person quickly finds out that everyone slights the truth. Sometimes it’s not even on purpose. Fur business is very hard to predict any which way you choose.

I wasn't necessarily referring to their graders, although they're inconsistancys speak for them self, but rather the vast majority of their market reports.

Called the skin game for a reason.

I know that the amount of fur you have sold at Nafa probably is a drop in the bucket to what I have. I also know that the names you listed are only slightly more important then the Mexicans they have working at Stoughton. If you don’t think the management at Nafa won’t lie and twist words you really don’t know what’s going on.

So why did you sell your copious amounts of fur to liars and cheats,Obviously more hogwash plain enough to see.
Either that or your a dummy to keep getting ripped off-so which is it?LOL.

Copious, good word.

So your a speculator\buyer,or rancher?
Either/or,as a trapper I am not too upset that you lost some money,lol

Proves how stupid you are, any time major players in this industry get hurt is bad for everyone right down to the kid with a handful of muskrat. Bet you wouldn’t say that to my face, how about guys like don wolf or terry Manley you gonna tell those guys you’d be happy to see them lose money?

Boco, that makes no sense.

You are unaware of the animus towards ranch fur on here by some trappers?There is a belief by some that wild fur sales have suffered as the result of the unfettered overproduction of ranch fur by fur ranchers and that the current downturn in the fur market is attributable to their greed.
I must say there is some merit to the theory in my opinion.But I still support the industry overall,and myself,like a lot of trappers strive in our professional endeavours to do nothing to harm it.
Make a bit more sense to you now?

boco ...athis? how many trappers got thrown under the bus with that one? and its all good to you because you don't even use the junk traps there restricted to use.

Athis?Never heard of that.

Put your face on the selfie thread.
If you lost money in business dealings why should I feel sorry for you?You gambled and lost tough banannas.You aint the first or last.And yes I wouldl say it to your face.Or anyone else.

Lol, no that makes zero sense. You blindly support Nafa while trashing someone who disagrees with you that’s all I get out of your posts

Nafa and FHA have both done well by me. Have not always been happy with fur prices but never blamed them.They do their best as far as I'm concerned.It just burns me when people call them cheats and liars.But now at least I can see why you are disgruntled with them.You cant face the fact that you gambled in the fur business and lost so it makes it easier to accept the fact you lost big by blaming them.I get that now.
And really I do not feel happy that you lost money.I apologise for that remark.

You really have no clue about the dynamics of a country buyer who deals with the auctions, it’s a little different then a trapper sending a handful of skins.

Forget about my personal dealings, all we have to do is look at Nafa’s most recent big deal. If Nafa’s is the big swinging member of the fur industry you claim them to be why would they sell 70,000 coon 2 months before their big sale to a lowly country buyer like grownwold. Are you telling me in what appears to be a rising market they couldn’t get better money then one of their competitors, the very company you started trashing at the beginning of this thread. If I was a shipper I’d be (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) because I expect my stuff to go in front of multiple bidders, not a country buyer I could have sold to 6 months earlier. And if I was a dealer who shipped I’d be (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) Nafa sold my goods to a competitor.

Lets not forget a few years ago when NAFA told the dealers they could not store their fur and was going to firesale it, and did. Then the mink ranchers chipped in and bought it all up for a dime on the dollar and stored it At Nafa ware houses like nothing happened.

Carry On

I know well enough how the dealers buy and sell thru NAFA and the deals they negotiate for storage etc.There comes a time in the market when holding onto the fur is a loser.I don't blame them for selling coon in the recent market instead of holding it.Makes no difference if it was a middleman that bought it or a manufacturer.If they were offered what they asked so be it.No use in holding a bunch of fur for years especially fur with an unrealistic limit on it.it is just going to deteriorate in storage and be worth less the next year.I say good to push it thru the pipeline.Nobody makes money with fur sitting in storage for years.Gotta get rid of it.

So, most of the NAFA Dec fire sale of coons went to GFW...? Interesting. I'd like to hear both sides of that deal tell what went on. Does GFW buy make deals with FHA as well on occasion...?

Yes FHA has sold to GFW.

auction or pt? with the up coming sale so close groney should have bought at the sale along with all the other buyers....but fur is easy to give away when its not yours.

The coon sold where less then a year old, and your telling me grownwold can get better money then Nafa can. Kind of shows how important they are in the industry. Says volumes what Nafa thinks of their customers.

Exactly

So why don't you go sell to groney?Why shouldn't Nafa make a Private treaty sale to whoever?
You are still trying to blame someone else for your own mistake.Not nafas fault if you paid too much for the fur you wanted them to re sell for you.
If you are still in business why not sell to groney or get another auction house besides NAFA to peddle your goods and see if they can do any better.

Oh trust me I have found honest people to do business with and doing just fine. If your not smart enough to see how Nafa selling to grownwold is a problem I can’t help you, I’ll just say it contradicts everything you say about what Nafa is.

By the way I never said I payed to much for fur or that I lost money, but they sure cost me money, there’s a difference

Explain that- cost you money or lost money?And what do you mean what I say Nafa Is-Your full of it.Right up to your eyeballs.I've dealt with NAFA for near 40 years and they have sold fur for me.I never hear any Canadian shippers complain about NAFA,always Americans.Whats with that?Because its a Canadian Auction house?
They never cost me money I have done fine with them and OTA\FHA,so you need to look in the mirror if you want to see whos not too smart.

Yea, really think about it. Why wouldn't NAFA sell where Grony sells to instead of to Grony?

Lol, there is NOBODY honest in the fur business!

selling fur is like buying a new pickup. after a month or two I always feel like I should have done a little better

Originally Posted by Boco

So why don't you go sell to groney?Why shouldn't Nafa make a Private treaty sale to whoever?
You are still trying to blame someone else for your own mistake.Not nafas fault if you paid too much for the fur you wanted them to re sell for you.
If you are still in business why not sell to groney or get another auction house besides NAFA to peddle your goods and see if they can do any better.

I have no dog in this fight but if I sent my $10 coon to NAFA and they sold them to GFW for $10 less 11% commission I would be bummed. Why WOULDN'T I sell them to GFW for $10?

But if they had sold them for $14 or $15 you would be happy and GFW would be sad. Everytime we make a sell or decision, we are betting we know the answer.

I wanna see my fur get graded in front of me... None of this trusting the Grade after sending it off..
I can always say "No" to the price and negotiate from there.
To many stories of experienced people putting up good fur and having it grade junk, only to sell cheap to someones buddy I'm sure....

That hurts trappers in the future. If groeny can get them cheaper from Nafa, why would they need to buy them from trappers? Doesn't clear the coon pipeline either. The reason you have auctions is competitive bidding should get you the highest prices. Obviously neither Canadian Consigner can get much bidding these days. If they can't get bidding, no point in sending them fur. IMHO

Trap-Alaska grownwold isn’t buying fur at an auction unless they are already resold. So why couldn’t Nafa get the extra dollars for the trapper?

Couple of take-aways from this thread.

1. Groenewold has orders for 'coon.

2. Groenewold is making money on 'coon.

3. Just might be Groenewold is in need of 'coon next season.

4. Therefore, this boy will be resurrecting the 'coon river line next season.

Things are looking up somewhat, hope they keep going up.

If the price of gas keeps going up you will have to row. LOL

I have yet to see any $15.00 averages On put up coon so you might have to rethink that coon line.

I think I should say that i'm not in the least complaining about the prices I got at the window... I know what I had and I thought groenwold did me fair. I did better than some not as good as others, but I thought I got treated fairly. in the end that's all you can hope for...

I know what you are saying, but $10 (total cost) coon from NAFA is not the same as $10 coon from you. A $10(total cost) coon from NAFA is sorted, bailed, and ready to ship.

NAFA don't care, they make money on both ends. Might lose a little bit, make up for it in volume. Get a dollar off a million items equals a million dollars. People aren't very bright and will come back as they advertise their false advertising.

I have oars. And I don't burn up all that much gas on the river.

The question will be at what size does Groeney begin buying? 3XL on up is tough overall.

Lol funny. Nobody wanted to take the bet 3 months ago when I said we would see 20$ coon at auction. Everybody thought Groney is the market and $6 is pretty good in this market,lol. My Nafa valuations are $25 to 30 on 4x selects,$17 to 24 on 3x selects and $9 to 11 on doubles. You guys got ripped again as I have followed the sellers and their prices all year. Way off including coyote. Don't know why you guys buy into that crap every year. It is one to thing to buy fur,it is another thing to tell people yeah we want them but they aren't worth much.,lol

One must keep in mind that a garment maker has no commission fees when purchasing from GFW. Groeny can still make money, and the end user can still purchase their goods cheaper than through an auction house.

I've heard NAFA is in financial trouble due to the extremely low ranch mink prices.

Good thing I sent half my fur to FHA,lol.

Pleuger, how does a company that makes a profit last year get in financial trouble in less than a year?

I can guess who you heard this from. I have heard Nafa is going broke for the last ten years.

You know how many times a year I hear that Groenewald is going down the tubes.

Can’t believe much that goes on in this fur industry.

Weird! Half my fur is still there from last year?

tbn, I must of missed that thread, I got $20 coon last year so I would have taken that bet. Western Heavies is where it's at and bleached and dyed is hard to tell from coyote. Will know in a couple of days.

To answer your first question. Cost money vs lost money if he could have made a bigger profit then they cost him money.

Probably the reason why US shippers complain more is the same reason we don't have the queen on our money.

But you still use the queens miles.6 of one half a dozen of the other.

But they don't have kilometers shoved down their throats like we have to live with.

Funny stuff on here, lets all trust NAFA, lol. Got to be the best one ive seen on this website since '99.

Sold fur to ALOT of place's through a lot of years, without a doubt NAFA was the sorriest place to deal with and YES
they skint me once and we parted ways. Was interesting and enlightening how certain items they couldn't move for
years I found willing buyer's for every year while those they had sat in storage.

Also didn't know it was any secret Groney buy's up what NAFA can't sell, that's been going on forever!

Maybe the mink rancher's can finance NAFA's high lifestyle a few more years, be terrible if they went belly up.

Groeny Rocks!!

Nah,Nafa will just sell to groany all the grease burnt stale untannable coon that they have been storing for all the local yankee fur buyers for the last while.That and the upcoming wild fur boom and they will be good.LOL.

You do have a certain "charm", don't you Boco...

Didn't you see the lol,lol.

So groney buys a coon from Joe blow for $10.00 Then sells It to his buyer for $15.00 I guess that can be called profit or maybe It's the same as a commission that the auction house charges.

But if that buyer bids $15 for that coon at auction, he still has to pay the commission on top of that, thus he is better off buying that same coon from Groeny.

Boy! you missed it there Dave. The difference is, the trapper,[ that could be you by the way] gets 10$ from groeny for THAT coon. The trapper gets 13.65$ from NAFA after commission for THAT coon. Groenys commission is 33%. Don't get me wrong Groneny is a important part of North Americas fur industry. besides that it gives us something to argue about after the seasons over. Instead of which set is better the pocket set or the fish stick set.

pocket set

rock sammich set-everyone knows that i thought.

in my mind right now,anything moving is good.

You should be out testing mink boxes.

our season on rats and mink closed Jan 6.,i've had a lot of time to ponder that with myself.

Something tells me you ponder yourself way too much.

i'm my own worst enemy in that aspect i will admit.

You don't have to put traps In those boxes.

No you missed it. Groeny can pay the trapper $14 for that coon, still turn a profit re selling it at $15, and the end user still saves money vs using NAFA. That's how groeny is able to pay comparable prices as recieved through NAFA. The only times I've seen NAFA beat out Groeny is when a particular item is red hot, like coyotes at the moment. Beav is WAY off with his assumption of groeny's profit margin. They make their profit by paying the trapper well, which in turn leads to buying a large quantity, thus the profit margin need not be as high to still make a decent profit. When your dealing with hundreds of thousands of pelts, a $1-$2 profit per piece becomes quite substantial. Sure there are times the margin is less, and more.

That it's just like a rich hog farmer I talked to once. He says that the only makes $1 a hog he's still making money.

$1.00 profit ROTFLMAO.

I had a handful of coon that brought 10 dollars each green, I sold to them this year.
I thought that was pretty good for Northern Mo coon thats green. Had a decent Avg on green ones, didnt make time to put them up trapping coyotes kept me busy.

as long as the guy selling the fur is happy,really don't matter what the rest of us rocket scientists think.

If he's buying at 14 and selling at 15 maybe that rumor of him going under is true. Come on Dave, the next thing your going to tell us is he puts a bow on them

A 10 dollar coon paid by Groney just doesn't stop there. He may have 12-13-14 dollars in that coon by the time its all said and done. There are other costs incurred after/before buying it.

$1 profit on 500,000 pelts is still half a million dollar profit yeah. I'd take that. We can speculate on the total expenses. And speculate how much he wants to make/ Pelt. It would be interesting to know, does growney know what he's going to get at the time he makes his purchase?

I agree.

It's not happy trappers that is bad, it is trappers telling buyers they are happy. Never let them know you are happy. They will be happy to give you less the next time.

I like the classic," those prices are pretty good,I am going to meet their truck tomorrow", lol why would one pay anymore when you said you were happy with the price and already told them I am coming tomorrow?

Any good business man knows what He needs to do to make money. I'm sure groney goes Into the buying season knowing he has orders to fill and he knows what that buyer Is going pay him for those skins. So groney knows how much he has to pay the trapper and how much he has In over head and that figures out how much profit he's going to make.

Then once those orders are filled he goes Into the speculation mode. And It just makes sense that he would be paying less for those goods that he doesn't have a market for.

I sold all my fur to groney this year and I'm pretty happy with what I got. I still owe NAFA a $100.00 for my WFSC dues. LOL

About fell out of my chair when I read this.

Did Hades just freeze over?

Interesting thread, but one thing its missing...If half doesn't like NAFA/FHA route and half doesn't like the Groeny route....Where do ya sell!??

He sell to the little guy like me that will work his fingers to the Bone and make a little money. And then the next year be overly optimistic and overpay and make everybody happy except for him and his family when they starve to death.

runnin low on those guys though Poorcoon.

Come on beav, I shouldn't have to tell you that a couple dollar profit on say a half a million pelts is a million bucks.

You seem to have the idea that its a simple matter of buying the pelt and reselling it, when in reality there are a LOT of costs in between.

them trucks and freezers don't run on fresh air.

I totally understand what over head Is.
But I think you said groney could buy pelt from a trapper and turn around and sell It for a buck more ad make money. But that's not the case and we all know that.

Your right beav.

And the employees start to gripe if they don't get paid.

Warning someone just hacked into The Beav's account and is posting for him...or the top fell off the bottle.

did you not try to get into the coon skin market when it was high Beav...how did that go? Dollar profit or 10$ loss.