Just took a look at the catalog. Not sure how NAFA can remain in business with that kind of sale. Good grief!!!

not for the light hearted huh.

Ranch mink my friend. Other than coons and Grey fox everything else saw good clearances

I havent sent any fur to NAFA in 3 seasons. Had a few good sales with them back about 2010, 2011, etc but with the depressed market their sales are not worthwhile for most lower US wild fur trappers. Unless it is the only option for a trapper why would anyone send their fur there now? NAFA must not be attracting buyers...


Groenewold is keeping it alive for me. And running a route into the deep south, too.

Not exactly a "good clearance" on red fox and otters.

Yeah, yeah...those high plains coyotes will sell anywhere right now.

NAFA stays in business on the fees that they charge both sellers and buyers. When you consider commissions on both ends, packing fees, drumming fees, storage fees and everything else, the percentage is a lot higher than most people thing.

On a hundred dollar coyote it is about 25%.

On some section III items, it is more than the hammer price of the pelt. Can be double the hammer price. $2.00 hammer price. $4.00 or more in fees, it all adds up.

Forgot about otters and heavy foxes were better than last year I thought.clearance wise anyway

I realize how they make money, but eventually they have to produce a decent return for their shippers or they lose shippers. This sale looks to be a very, very bad return for wild fur shippers....based in what I saw when I browsed the catalogs...

no respect for trappers IMO

Did you scroll thru the catalog? Maybe they'll PT the rest for the trappers sake...

Other than otters and mink I watched the sale

NAFA 's position is that you can't please all of the people all of the time. They even tick off mink ranchers some times.

It is a cycle that keeps repeating itself -

- a trapper isn't happy with his local.buyer, so he ships to NAFA.
- NAFA sells his muskrats for less than he could have gotten in the country, so the next year he ships to FHA
- FHA some how lost his mink and they didn't get on the sale they were supposed to be, so next year he is going to sell local
- and the cycle goes on and on and on.

Plus there are always new trappers getting into selling fur.

I think we should just face the fact, the fur market hasn't turned around as of yet.

Going to be several years before it does, and then slowly.

wishful thinking is a powerful thing.

Yeah...I've seen that happen just reading Tman posts over past decade.

Same with me. See no reason to put up fur and drive two hours to the drop off when I can get about the same in the country. Maybe I'll ship again if/when the market improves.

Nafa has beaten anything I could get locally ever since I lost my local buyer that had order contracts overseas.

How does not selling at all beat anything? Lots of buy backs..

Poor sale so far for NAFA and the trade overall.
Coyotes only good seller so far.Western cats will likely be good too.
Clearances for some articles may improve thru PT sales.Prices not likely to improve there though.
Next batch off to the tanner!

Doesn't really bother me right now.. after the spring/summer sale that would be more worrisome.

. Ranch mink are terrible and many ranchers quitting. NAFA is in a tough spot right now. If they went under it would be a dark day for the fur trade imo

How tough, specifically ? Any official numbers for that claim ? Not arguing, just want to see em.

I don’t raise them but I know Groeny was saying he watch’s the market daily and I believe 12-18 dollars averages were common earlier. Cost of production 20-30 a mink or so? I just know the industry is in big trouble

Kopenhagen January sale

Grand total

Regular

3.233.684 ranch mink for sale

27% percent sold

160,4 Average price in dollars $24.43 using 6.5 K to the dollar.

Source: Kopenhagen Fur Auction report.

Marten?

There is a bright side to the fur market fiasco. Ranch mink numbers are coming down fast around the world. Next year should produce around 36 million skins. That down from the close to a 100 million skins just a few years ago.

Trade needs about 40 million ranch mink pelts a year. Just have to use up the oversupply.

Some guys in the better regions for at least some fur I'm sure have done alright. I happen to be blessed to live in an area that have good coon and I think i handle my fur well. My coon this year graded into 3 regions at a 30-40-30% ratio. I sold all out of the first region, 86% out of the second region, and 0% out of the 3rd region. I'm sitting at a $17.18 average right now, but that won't hold for the entire year because when the 3rd region skins sell, they will bring it down and second batch for the May sale has some smaller skins in it. Still way better than my disastrous last year. But, I'm lucky to live where I do according to the NAFA graders...

That will be good to see but it tells me there is really not the demand for pelts that there was 3-5 years ago and we may be into a new but more limited market.

My fur sold at prices that were about what was anticipated. 9 of 10 coons are at $15, my two male mink averaged $14.50 so those were OK. I have a 3xl 1* 1-2 color coon left which should not hurt that average
My rats are disappointing. I had 228 of which 213 have sold for $3.75. I have 15 2xl-3xl-selects left.
It was not a good auction for higher grade fur. My 1* grade, xl, large and mediums sold for .25 to.50 less than the 1-11 grade of the same size.
I also had the highest percentage of large and mediums and a much lower percentage of xl rats. I knew that going in but thought that waiting a tad longer to get higher grades would be worth a bit more, but I guess not.
The market for rats is size for lining expensive coats so not much extra value in winter grade rats at this time. I guess somebody has to trap the fur to line the expensive cat coats or the coyote parkas.

Bryce

Sold few more coon pt I think, average went up 50 cents, all 3xl up coon of no 1 or 1 an 2 color in select an 1 grade didn't sell, which I happy not go cheap, what happen in future for them, no clue, mink did ok, $16 top, rats sold 100 per cent but not high, $5 top, beaver very very low, price, I thought fur up price but lower considerably than year ago

Why bid on ANYTHING when you can wait and get it for bargain basement price's PT? Way this so called auction has been trending in the past several years. Quit doing PT sale's and might bet more action on the actual auction which is WHY most ship their fur there to begin with! Or change the name to North American Private Treaty company and be done with it.

Exactly!

There are essentially two auction houses They both rely on same buyers from all over the world. If the demand isn't there you won't be happy with the returns on the sale of your skins. Don't blame the auction houses; they're just the messenger of what the market is saying.

I really have to scratch my head when I hear trappers complaining about low prices somehow being the responsibility of the auction houses.

Past few years it appears you are correct in how the auction vs PT sales are done.

Actually there are five since ALC went belly up. 3( maybe 4) are owned by the farmers who are responsible for the current situation. Now you don't have to scratch your head so much.

If you look at what sold on the auction it seems as though color was not an issue and as a matter of fact they look as though they did not want to pay extra for color. They can bleach or color what they bought for the uses they have in mind. Big coon with c, c-d sold at the sale. I may be wrong but unless you can sell them to the Italians or Greeks you probably won't see much separation in price in this market. Just what I have heard through the grape vine. I was told this weeks ago when I asked a buyer what his basis was on my section of coon. He skirted the question until I asked him straight out what he was willing to pay for a 4x select A-B colored Heavy coon and then he told me that the Chinese won't pay more for the clarity of color. In other words, they want skins at a set price per square inch. If it is more than what they want to pay, they move on. LLL

I wonder what price fate is go to happen to the bigger better quality color coon in future ?

with what they are doin to them,no need to buy good color.cheap is king in coon as exhibited in the sale.

If you think NAFA Is In finical trouble I'm wondering why they just built a new facility In Stoughton. And If you look at the land they have purchased for new expansion I'm not to concerned about NAFA going under.

. Had a huge dairy expand a couple years. Probably bigger buildings and more cost than NAFA. Now they are hauling their cows away. Done out of business. I’m not concerned they are going out of business either but just because you see expansion doesn’t mean they are bulletproof. I sure wouldn’t invest in the fur business today

agree,investing at this time and this market tells me they are makin too much at the trappers and farmers expense.

The pushback was on the better colored coon, also you had to be in the western heavies or the top of the n ext bracket. NAFA sold about 80% of my coon on this sale and the ones I have left are mostly big.

A lot of difference between a dairy farm milking 1000s of cattle 24/7 365 days a year and a NAFA facility that sits idle for 8 months out of the year. LOL

Lot of Black Glamma Phi Slama Jama males selling for $30 to $40. Except Zimbal again. More market share for him.

Looks like" bought back "might be the biggest buyer though.

Isnt it better to invest when it is low and sell when high?

i guess if someone else is footing the bill,but if i had 2 cows and couldn't make money on them why build a new barn for them.

Instead of building more facilities to store mink and coon, they could give coyote trappers a rebate.

Beaver trappers need the sub not the coyote trappers.

They don't store anything here In the States It all goes to Canada. I think the only thing that gets graded In the States are rats.

If they don't grade and store pelts in Wisconsin, why the need for a bigger facility?

Gotta have a school to teach the Mexicans English.

Ya I thought the talk was of higher prices at least for coon from groenwold vids on fb, definitely considerably lower prices on rat, coon. Beaver , mink than a year ago at auction with lot more buy backs

I don't know if Groney said higher prices or will be buying more aggressively.

coonman220, aren't you looking for a job? You should apply for the job up in Stoughton to teach the Mexicans English. At least see what it pays.

The new NAFA Stoughton WI facility Is a drop off point and a shipping facility for fur collected In the states. They had been renting a facility near the original NAFA building but I guess they decided to stop renting and build their own facility.

The original building Is used for nothing but ranch mink receiving and put up. + NAFAs US corporate offices.

They raised coon prices here by $3 across the board after returning from the Beijing fur fair.

Wonder what they’ll do after returning from Toronto?

Many of the sellers were getting 6 ave on green coon after the Fair, if Groney raised the prices across the board by 3 well I don't what to say about that.

Agreed, with the exception of rats. They were up about 10% from last year's sale.

Marten sound a little disappointing right now.

Brutal as expected.

Fisher too

Green coon were bringing $6 average? I don't know what bringing, I have 35 of best coon unsold so my average precommision on what sold was $11.67, after commission, shipping around $10.55, Italian designers bought some coon in past an pay good, not at this sale , rats have not gone up any, I had over 20 go for $5, after commission, $4.55, sold 73 rats at $4.99, pre commision, the 1 item that was very low was beaver , next season I am sure no better, maybe worse

The Montana section did as well as the semi's??

Yep, $3 top on the best quality,dark, medium beaver. 1st lot in the medium catalog.

Pretty much all they sold on the floor in semi was large( small ). Lot of them in the twenties.

I did not even send my coyotes up there ,,,and I think that's a good idea right there.
Joe nicely put.

Things could be worse, we could be trapping blackglama mink.

I really have to scratch my head when I hear trappers complaining about low prices somehow being the responsibility of the auction houses.

Might be because EVERY TIME the market goes up NAFA runs out taking the credit for it like all of their over sea's promotion is the cause of it.


Our relationship with Russia right now I imagine is hurting the fur market more than anything else, especially coons.

It is the shady grading and back room sales as well as other things is why Nafa is disliked by so many. They can store millions of ranch goods but not coon but when Groney needs coon they make a deal with him and sell them cheap. Then say there is no market but obviously there was a market or Groney wouldn't have bought them. Ray Charles can see thru that.

Then why don't you send your coon to him so you you don't have to be the "victim" then. I truly feel sorry for you if you are that blind.

Jtrapper, Russian fashion trends have changed dramatically over the past few years. Raccoon bomber hats are no longer desired there. The market is primarily in China at the moment. Smaller sizes, and lower grades are being used as liners. The hope is that heavy, bigger coon would be used as trim as a replacement for high dollar coyotes. As of yet this hasn't really materialized.

Well not all of us are hoping for a coyote replacement

Replacement is the wrong word. Cheaper substitute is more accurate. The fashion remains with coyote trim.

I know several coyote trappers unhappy with nafa grading.

This was the last straw for me. You either click accept or you don't log in. no clue why nafa wants to access what I do on my computer and I don't really care. its not going to happen.

personnal Information is worth money.

I wonder why they are a day behind on the auction ? I am listening to it and they are a long ways away from selling cats.

I don't think they are behind. Auction order of sale says lynxcats at the end of the day on March 2. Still lots of time left in today. The

When I click on catalogue #4 it says linx cats yesterday. Where are you seeing that ?

I see the same as wissmiss, cats still to come. Can't come soon enough. This ranch mink auction is PAINFUL to listen to. You can hear the frustration in the auctioneers' voices.

Here is the official order of sale

https://portal.nafa.ca/cs/groups/public/documents/document/mdaw/mdez/~edisp/nafa_013877.pdf

Catalog 4 of wild fur. Saturday, March 2 lynxcats

Today is Saturday March 2 and will be for another 8 hours in Toronto

Since you are in northern Maine, you can probably see the smoke from the big fire in Toronto.

P.S. I hope they don't have to close the airport.

My gut feeling it will be 4:15 Central time when they sell cats and it is going to be as painful as the ranch mink auction.

Mink are going cheap.

For those in the know, are these mink lower end?

approaching wild mink prices.

This cat sale might be sad hope not so far beaver was highlight of my furs and coyotes

I'm not really in the know, so maybe someone else can chime in. But they have been no-sale-ing furs all day in the 20's and 30's. So my guess is they held back the better ones and now, as Dirt said, it seems like a fire sale on the lower end. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I think top end cats will do well,everything else will struggle.

Ranch mink grades are more complicated than ours. A lot of the buying is based on the producers. Seems certain producers get premiums on their products. However, that being said they are selling Golds, Silvers an VSL right now. As far as grades ;Gold and silver are top. VSL would be in the bottom. Lots of other things matter too, like nap, clarity and the shades of color within the primary color now of Pastels which is basically light brown. Size seems to be the biggest factor.

Disclaimour: Just observations from the Auction and information provided by NAFA.

Simple answer: they are selling good mink cheap.

Based on what I see in the catalog, these are not lower end mink. They are your ordinary better end rancher collections from the past breeding season.

Low end money know would be listed as Breeders and Section III. It appears they are offering neither at this sale. Probably hold them for the May sale. Maybe even August.

Based on what I've seen browsing through the catalogs, I would rather be a wild fur trapper than a mink rancher. I've been told it costs $30.00 to $35.00 to raise a ranch mink. All you have to do is look at the figures and you know they are losing money.

With the bought back wild fur, there is always a chance it might sell for more money. But when a ranch mink sells for $12.00 on a nice female - it is sold and you've lost money.

That's a bummer. But I guess it's pain now or pain later. At some point these have to clear out before we start to see prices come back.

Thanks Wissmiss, I wasn't for sure with the prices they were getting and the lack of interest by the bidders at the opening prices. Its been a painful auction to listen to, hope people are still there for the cat auction. I think it has taken a lot longer to get through the mink than they thought it would.

And now there website is crashing.

The serious cat buyers will be there no matter what time they start selling the cats. They know the schedule and work around it. And if the auction runs late enough, NAFA will send out for pizza or sandwiches or something to feed the buyers. The cafeteria is only open for breakfast and lunch.

By the time they get to the southern cats, auction room will probably be rather empty.

Yep...us southerners cant afford to ship anything to the auction houses when northern latitude fur is struggling.

Groeny Rocks! Lol

I think I will sell my Chinchilla traps

cats in 10 minutes

$3100 top cat, hope they hang in there

Probably wasn't from Georgia.

or PA

1-2’s $800-1000
2-3 $400-500
3-4 $200

Dropping fast 2-3s 200-300

That sounds about right. Top lot don't mean diddly. Just bragging rights and free publicity.

Not too many buy backs, that’s good

Me too!

2-3’s held up through the larges but 3-4’s fell off hard

Off colored bellies aren't what's in demand. Clear bellies are high in demand. I still don't see a better place to sell Western cats. Or Western heavy coyotes. And I'm not so sure about Western heavy raccoon. This is the first year I seen anybody give NAFA a run for their money. that being gronewold. On the West heavy Raccoon anyway.

...Coonman...what did the southwestern 1-2’s look like if you don’t mind me askin?

I had one, so it meant diddly to me!!!!!!!!!

I've always sold locally or at our state fur auction. This year I decided to sell at NAFA for a change. I will never bash on our state auction as I know there's a lot of hard work involved and good people that run it. But I will say this, last year I averaged $267 per cat. (12 cats) This year I averaged $400 plus MORE PER CAT $675 (11 cats) than I did last year. And I believe last years cats were better. Anyway, it made me a NAFA believer. I wonder if sometimes you just don't get the buyer competition at the smaller auctions that you get at the big ones. I've got another cat and a bunch of coyotes and you can bet I'm sending them back east next week.

From 75-165. Not bad, rest kinda fell off or bought back.
For life of me I can never figure out what’s up with the last good page on the south western section of the auction.
I can have a cat in every single lot in that section except that page. That par went from $120-250. The 3-4’s on that page sold more than the 3-4 westerns. I don’t get it, does anyone else know what’s up with that? It’s been like that last couple years

They are probably dealer lots.

Jarrett did you have any cats on the sLe

trapperne, I had 18, four were left over from last year. I had 2 western that sold for $380 and $115, I had 6 southwestern's 1 sold for $95 and another for $55. I had 10 graded North Central and had 1 sell for $35. I caught a lot of big toms this year and our big toms usually have nasty off colored bellies for some reason. 14 of these cats were caught before Dec. 25th. 11 of the 18 graded 3-4 clarity. Hopefully the uglies move next sale, because I have more to send.

I’m sure they are but why are they always almost double the price of the other lots with the same exact grade, fishy

Where are you from jarret?