Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6483349
03/07/19 07:12 AM
03/07/19 07:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,678 Wisconsin
Green Bay
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Wisconsin
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I like to harvest them when they are bright red in the early fall.
Author of The Lure Hunter: A Guide to Finding Fishing Lures
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6483492
03/07/19 10:39 AM
03/07/19 10:39 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,738 Iowa
coydog2
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,738
Iowa
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I use maple for what I have around the yard. Watch the Sumac some is poison the ones with the shine leave . I know I found that out many years ago. As for willow the sap will give some a skin problem for some time also.
Life member of DAV,NTA,NRA,ITA.Also member of FTA,CBA
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6484032
03/07/19 08:19 PM
03/07/19 08:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 437 Western Illinois
#11
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Western Illinois
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Thanks for all the informative responses fellas. I live within 20 miles of Jacksonville, I have lots of Staghorn Sumac on my place. If you need some send me a PM.
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6486140
03/09/19 06:56 PM
03/09/19 06:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,830 Wisconsin
The Beav
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Wisconsin
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If your going to use sumac for a dye put the heads in some type of cloth bag when boiling. Otherwise your going to have a real mess.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: The Beav]
#6486513
03/10/19 12:53 AM
03/10/19 12:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,400 Morgantown, WV
Dfabs
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Morgantown, WV
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If your going to use sumac for a dye put the heads in some type of cloth bag when boiling. Otherwise your going to have a real mess. Yep...I go buy one of those cheap pillow cases from wal mart
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6487896
03/11/19 12:58 PM
03/11/19 12:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497 PA
PAskinner
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PA
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Sumac works great. I just hose off the traps after boiling. The loose dye doesn't do anything anyway and it gets rid of any seeds sticking to them.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: The Beav]
#6488398
03/11/19 11:34 PM
03/11/19 11:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132 SWMo.
tjm
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If your going to use sumac for a dye put the heads in some type of cloth bag when boiling. Otherwise your going to have a real mess. the mess doesn't hurt a thing, shake the trap and any debris falls off. This time of year, wait a few weeks til the maples start to leaf out and gather new leaves, or walnut leaves or any tannin bearing leaves at about half growth stage, sumac berries are only at their best in late summer and by fall have rotted or leached out the tannin. The bark of any tannin bearing tree will work any time.
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6488709
03/12/19 11:56 AM
03/12/19 11:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,830 Wisconsin
The Beav
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Wisconsin
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The thing about a sack Is you can put a rock In It and It stays on the bottom and you don't have all those berries floating around on top. And clean up Is so much easier. It's the same with bark or leaves why have them floating around on top.
Last edited by The Beav; 03/12/19 11:59 AM.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6492506
03/16/19 03:17 PM
03/16/19 03:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497 PA
PAskinner
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Don't put them on top. Put them in the bottom pack the traps on top of them. No floaters.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6492570
03/16/19 04:30 PM
03/16/19 04:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132 SWMo.
tjm
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
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SWMo.
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If you use enough leaves or berries the tub will be full of them, that is no room for both traps and leaves full, cook them a bit (15-20 minutes at simmer after boil) and let set overnight, then reheat and separate the vegetable from the liquid extract and cook the traps in the tannin.
I believe the biggest reason that people don't get good results with tannin is not using enough tannin to get a strong solution and not leaving the traps in the solution long enough for the tannin to work. For best results, bring the traps to a boil and let set a couple hours or overnight and then bring to a boil again before removing the hot traps to the hot wax. Repeat for as many traps as you have, this takes a good deal of time, but most of the time you don't need to be there. If I do all my traps the total time is about 12-14 hours over three days. I also believe that most who read this will pay no heed and rush through the process with 30% enough tannin and later say "it didn't work for me". If you try to do it all the same day, you might as well skip it and do what Beav does, use latex paint. Or take Larry Sills advice and let 'em rust to a patina.
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: tjm]
#6494706
03/18/19 07:23 PM
03/18/19 07:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,719 Maine
Mac
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Maine
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If you use enough leaves or berries the tub will be full of them, that is no room for both traps and leaves full, cook them a bit (15-20 minutes at simmer after boil) and let set overnight, then reheat and separate the vegetable from the liquid extract and cook the traps in the tannin.
I believe the biggest reason that people don't get good results with tannin is not using enough tannin to get a strong solution and not leaving the traps in the solution long enough for the tannin to work. For best results, bring the traps to a boil and let set a couple hours or overnight and then bring to a boil again before removing the hot traps to the hot wax. Repeat for as many traps as you have, this takes a good deal of time, but most of the time you don't need to be there. If I do all my traps the total time is about 12-14 hours over three days. I also believe that most who read this will pay no heed and rush through the process with 30% enough tannin and later say "it didn't work for me". If you try to do it all the same day, you might as well skip it and do what Beav does, use latex paint. Or take Larry Sills advice and let 'em rust to a patina.
Good post
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6590754
08/08/19 02:50 PM
08/08/19 02:50 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,494 Garden,Michigan
Buck (Zandra)
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Garden,Michigan
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When I used it I think it was more into Sept,but I wouldn't be shy about doing it now with those tops.
Buck(formely known as Zandra)
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: Buck (Zandra)]
#6590785
08/08/19 04:51 PM
08/08/19 04:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 31 South Dakota
Merriam
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South Dakota
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When I used it I think it was more into Sept,but I wouldn't be shy about doing it now with those tops. Thanks, I may wait a couple weeks, since I'm not in too big of a hurry.
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: The Beav]
#6593613
08/13/19 04:51 AM
08/13/19 04:51 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 574 Communist State Of New York
Archeryguy
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Communist State Of New York
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If your going to use sumac for a dye put the heads in some type of cloth bag when boiling. Otherwise your going to have a real mess. Mesh laundry bags work really well to. I get the best black color from swamp maple. It grows like a weed around here and I use a beaver fleshing tool to peel the bark off.
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6593733
08/13/19 09:09 AM
08/13/19 09:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132 SWMo.
tjm
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
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SWMo.
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I used sumac (berries, leaves and several other kinds of leaves) a bunch of times, with zero mess and the trick is to use the mesh bags making cottage cheese, if you have enough vegetable matter in the cooker to get a strong tannin solution there won't be room for traps, or the mesh bags, unless the cooker is a 50 gallon barrel- you need equal volume more or less of sumac heads and traps- - try this for real results; pack the cooking tub full of sumac berries or walnut hulls or tannin bearing leaves (walnut maple oak etc) , plant parts/vegetable matter, mash it down a bit and cover it with water; bring to boil for 30 minutes and cool over night; then remove the plant matter and save the "tea" -this is the tannin solution- now load the cooker of tannin solution with as many traps as will fit, boil 10 minutes and let set at least several hours till mostly cool; then bring back to boil and remove the traps one by one to very hot wax, leave it wax til the bubbles of steam stop indicating that all water is displaced by hot wax (oil); then remove the trap from the wax and hang to cool. It is not fast and it is work and it will use fuel, but the result will be a trap with no rust that can be stored for years and will not rust. Tannin dying and wax are storage prep.
If you want fast easy and cheap dip the traps or paint them, it won't help much with rust (because rust grows under the paint or dip unless neutralized) but traps are cheap, compared to a hundred years ago.
If you are going to use the traps within a month it won't matter a lot what you do, because the critters will clean them of what ever prep you did- in the first catch.
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Re: Sumac for dye
[Re: bwhntr100]
#6597107
08/18/19 01:47 AM
08/18/19 01:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 71 KY
thumper3181
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KY
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I have always used Red Oak sawdust, I am a lumber Inspector at a saw mill so it's free. I put enough sawdust to basically fill half of my 5 gallon pot in a pillow case and boil it for an hour or so, I then let it cool overnight and squeeze all the water out of the sawdust that I can back into my pot. I add about two dozen traps and top off with some more water, bring to boil for an hour and let cool off overnight and my traps are a real dark blueish black. You could probably stop by a hardwood sawmill and they will give you a couple bucks of sawdust for free.
Wfjc
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