Shock Springs
#6490516
03/14/19 08:53 AM
03/14/19 08:53 AM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 54 PA
Pad Catch
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OP
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PA
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Tis the offseason here in PA and so begins the trap tweaking. I have kicked around the idea of adding inline shock springs to my coyote traps. I have a very rudimentary knowledge of shock springs as I don't believe they are necessary for fox, but with the coyotes moving in, I'm a firm believer that its important to hold the biggest thing in the field. I'm open to all opinions and experiences but I'll list a few questions that have been rolling around in my mind. I am aware there are many successful coyote trappers catch a lot of coyotes without the aid of shock springs, but if I am able to increase my hold rate with shock springs, I think its a worth while investment, especially on those toe catches.
-Shock Spring styles/manufacturers: P.I.T, JC Conner, Sleepy Creek? Any experience or preference? -What LB Tension? 40lb, 50lb, 75lb? -Do you keep the spring closer to your anchor, closer to the trap, or in the middle? -How long of chain do you typically run with an inline shock spring?
Thanks for your help, opinions, and experiences.
Living the Dream, One Fur at a Time.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6490751
03/14/19 12:46 PM
03/14/19 12:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797 Wisconsin
The Beav
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In my opinion shock springs are a waste of time and money. Just more stuff to bury at the set. And short chains solve any perceived injuries to non targets. In fact domestic critters don't fight a trap like a wild critter does. When the small amount of play In the shock spring Is bottomed out the critter Is still on the move so I don't see where It's of any value. It might have some value In 4 or 5 foot chain set up where the critter can get up a head of steam but I still have my doubts about that. And On a10" chain set up I can't see any value. But If It works for you that's all that counts.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: The Beav]
#6491570
03/15/19 11:23 AM
03/15/19 11:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,098 NC
Tailhunter
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In my opinion shock springs are a waste of time and money. Just more stuff to bury at the set. And short chains solve any perceived injuries to non targets. In fact domestic critters don't fight a trap like a wild critter does. When the small amount of play In the shock spring Is bottomed out the critter Is still on the move so I don't see where It's of any value. It might have some value In 4 or 5 foot chain set up where the critter can get up a head of steam but I still have my doubts about that. And On a10" chain set up I can't see any value. But If It works for you that's all that counts. Finally someone that sees it the same way as I do. Short chains have always worked for me.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: coalbank]
#6491574
03/15/19 11:31 AM
03/15/19 11:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,098 NC
Tailhunter
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The J.C. Conner heavy duty are what I mostly run. Swivel on the D- ring, 4 links of chain, swivel, shock spring, 4 links of chain, swivel, double stake ring or earth anchor.
Not only will it help hold coyotes, but it can really help to keep domestics and wild from shoulder damage from lunging. 1st time I saw the spring in action I was sold. Doesn’t that add about 10$ to each trap? When your running dozens of canine traps that can be cost prohibitive.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Tailhunter]
#6491584
03/15/19 11:43 AM
03/15/19 11:43 AM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 54 PA
Pad Catch
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Springs are around $25/doz, the rest of the chain typically comes stock with any trap. So if you catch 1 extra coyote per dozen traps with the aid of a spring, your springs have paid for themselves. I have zero experience running springs so I don't know if they increase your catch rate or not but if they hold one extra toe catch coyote it would be worth it.
Living the Dream, One Fur at a Time.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6491597
03/15/19 12:19 PM
03/15/19 12:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,930 E central Il
Golf ball
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E central Il
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I tend to agree with the Beav on one aspect , short chains eliminate movement . If your using earth anchors and short chains ( 8” or less ) I don’t feel the need for a shock spring. I’ve gone from long ( 30” ) chains and shock springs while using single stakes to the short chains and earth anchors. I feel as if I’m working a lot harder retrieving earth anchors than I did stakes . That being said I’m going to go back to stakes at least for frozen ground . I’ve been using JC Conners shock springs, I’ve got some of the older ones with the lock washer connectors and some of the newer version that require a swivel on each end. For long chains either one will work , for short chains the two swivels ad more length and the shock spring is another 41/2 or 5” in my mind this makes it hard to keep a short chain . Each person should reach his own conclusions based on their situation. By that I mean the entire situation, including ground conditions soil types and type and size of trap . You asked about different weights and styles or manufacturers of shock springs and I’ve only tried the JC’s but will be ordering the pits from Ed as they are made with a built in swivel on each end I’ve yet to ask him what he recommends for weight but I’m betting on the 50 lbs ones for coyote .
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: The Beav]
#6491650
03/15/19 01:54 PM
03/15/19 01:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 526 GA
canebrake
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In my opinion shock springs are a waste of time and money. Just more stuff to bury at the set. And short chains solve any perceived injuries to non targets. In fact domestic critters don't fight a trap like a wild critter does. When the small amount of play In the shock spring Is bottomed out the critter Is still on the move so I don't see where It's of any value. It might have some value In 4 or 5 foot chain set up where the critter can get up a head of steam but I still have my doubts about that. And On a10" chain set up I can't see any value. But If It works for you that's all that counts. It doesn't take much time or effort to bury a 4 inch spring.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Golf ball]
#6491656
03/15/19 01:59 PM
03/15/19 01:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 54 PA
Pad Catch
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I have talked with Ed about shock springs and he often talks about the need for shock springs on short chains specifically. He said often that first lunge when they jump straight up is going to be the most likely time they would pull out of a toe catch. He also said on longer chains when they jump they never reach the end of the chain so there is no chance of a pull out on the initially lunge, but later on in the fight against the trap is when shock springs are important on longer chains, like you said, when they can get a run.
Like I said, I'm not here to argue, I am legitimately trying to determine if the investment is worth it.
Ed did mention a trial he was a part of where they set traps with Force Meters attached and he rattled off some numbers regarding the lbs of force on that first lunge (I believe he said an average 30lb coyote has a force of over 200lbs on the initial lunge, but don't quote me on that) and he said that the first bit of thrashing is the most important one to withstand and where shock springs are important.
Living the Dream, One Fur at a Time.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: canebrake]
#6491669
03/15/19 02:42 PM
03/15/19 02:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797 Wisconsin
The Beav
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Wisconsin
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In my opinion shock springs are a waste of time and money. Just more stuff to bury at the set. And short chains solve any perceived injuries to non targets. In fact domestic critters don't fight a trap like a wild critter does. When the small amount of play In the shock spring Is bottomed out the critter Is still on the move so I don't see where It's of any value. It might have some value In 4 or 5 foot chain set up where the critter can get up a head of steam but I still have my doubts about that. And On a10" chain set up I can't see any value. But If It works for you that's all that counts. It doesn't take much time or effort to bury a 4 inch spring. Well from that pic there Is 10" of shock spring + swivels. Know you add several more links of chain on either end and your looking at 15 to 16 " and that Is a lot to bury. Especially In frozen ground. A chain length of about 8" with swivels and then driven down In to the ground when using a earth anchor Isn't going to let any critter make much of a lunge. If they work for you so be It but I'm not convinced they help.
Last edited by The Beav; 03/15/19 02:43 PM.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6491676
03/15/19 02:51 PM
03/15/19 02:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 526 GA
canebrake
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GA
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Well from that pic there Is 10" of shock spring + swivels. Know you add several more links of chain on either end and your looking at 15 to 16 " and that Is a lot to bury. Especially In frozen ground. A chain length of about 8" with swivels and then driven down In to the ground when using a earth anchor Isn't going to let any critter make much of a lunge.
If they work for you so be It but I'm not convinced they help.
I actually cut a couple of factory links off my 650s and add a spring and swivel to the end of the chain so I don't have much to bury at all. Some of us don't believe a #2 Duke is worth the time or effort either, but that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6491724
03/15/19 04:36 PM
03/15/19 04:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073 montana
red mt
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Canebrake with a 650 do you worry about pull outs is this the reason for the shock spring????
Kenneth schoening
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6491732
03/15/19 04:44 PM
03/15/19 04:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073 montana
red mt
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I have talked with Ed about shock springs and he often talks about the need for shock springs on short chains specifically. He said often that first lunge when they jump straight up is going to be the most likely time they would pull out of a toe catch. He also said on longer chains when they jump they never reach the end of the chain so there is no chance of a pull out on the initially lunge, but later on in the fight against the trap is when shock springs are important on longer chains, like you said, when they can get a run.
Like I said, I'm not here to argue, I am legitimately trying to determine if the investment is worth it.
Ed did mention a trial he was a part of where they set traps with Force Meters attached and he rattled off some numbers regarding the lbs of force on that first lunge (I believe he said an average 30lb coyote has a force of over 200lbs on the initial lunge, but don't quote me on that) and he said that the first bit of thrashing is the most important one to withstand and where shock springs are important. Here is something to consider imo then .a shock spring is rated at 50 lbs ,and coyote is lunging at 200lbs (for this example ) the shock spring is bottomed out now at the beginning of the lunge correct??? I am not saying there Bad or Good just adding to the comments already given .
Kenneth schoening
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6491743
03/15/19 05:20 PM
03/15/19 05:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,672 Ohio
Willy Firewood
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Coalbank - you omitted one swivel in your description of your chain system. I make mine the same - cut one link and put it together. Just having fun.
FRAC LIVES MATTER
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: red mt]
#6491748
03/15/19 05:25 PM
03/15/19 05:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 54 PA
Pad Catch
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I have talked with Ed about shock springs and he often talks about the need for shock springs on short chains specifically. He said often that first lunge when they jump straight up is going to be the most likely time they would pull out of a toe catch. He also said on longer chains when they jump they never reach the end of the chain so there is no chance of a pull out on the initially lunge, but later on in the fight against the trap is when shock springs are important on longer chains, like you said, when they can get a run.
Like I said, I'm not here to argue, I am legitimately trying to determine if the investment is worth it.
Ed did mention a trial he was a part of where they set traps with Force Meters attached and he rattled off some numbers regarding the lbs of force on that first lunge (I believe he said an average 30lb coyote has a force of over 200lbs on the initial lunge, but don't quote me on that) and he said that the first bit of thrashing is the most important one to withstand and where shock springs are important. Here is something to consider imo then .a shock spring is rated at 50 lbs ,and coyote is lunging at 200lbs (for this example ) the shock spring is bottomed out now at the beginning of the lunge correct??? I am not saying there Bad or Good just adding to the comments already given . Yes, they do bottom out, but the shock springs are about lessening the blow, so using a 75lb spring would lessen that force by 27.5%. Is that enough to matter? I don't know. But I intend to find out.
Living the Dream, One Fur at a Time.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: red mt]
#6491790
03/15/19 06:11 PM
03/15/19 06:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 526 GA
canebrake
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GA
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Canebrake with a 650 do you worry about pull outs is this the reason for the shock spring???? What does a 650 have to do with it? No, I don't necessarily use them to reduce the chance of a pull out. I can't help but think they would help tremendously with stake pumping should the need arise, as well as soften the blow on the animal fighting the trap, whether it is a coyote, fox, or the neighbor's dog, and that's never a bad thing. Use what you like and have confidence in.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: red mt]
#6491813
03/15/19 06:33 PM
03/15/19 06:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797 Wisconsin
The Beav
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
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I have talked with Ed about shock springs and he often talks about the need for shock springs on short chains specifically. He said often that first lunge when they jump straight up is going to be the most likely time they would pull out of a toe catch. He also said on longer chains when they jump they never reach the end of the chain so there is no chance of a pull out on the initially lunge, but later on in the fight against the trap is when shock springs are important on longer chains, like you said, when they can get a run.
Like I said, I'm not here to argue, I am legitimately trying to determine if the investment is worth it.
Ed did mention a trial he was a part of where they set traps with Force Meters attached and he rattled off some numbers regarding the lbs of force on that first lunge (I believe he said an average 30lb coyote has a force of over 200lbs on the initial lunge, but don't quote me on that) and he said that the first bit of thrashing is the most important one to withstand and where shock springs are important. Here is something to consider imo then .a shock spring is rated at 50 lbs ,and coyote is lunging at 200lbs (for this example ) the shock spring is bottomed out now at the beginning of the lunge correct??? I am not saying there Bad or Good just adding to the comments already given . That was the point I was trying to make.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: canebrake]
#6491868
03/15/19 07:32 PM
03/15/19 07:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073 montana
red mt
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Canebrake I was tring to get a handle on reason the 650 was in conversation is all.
Kenneth schoening
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Yes sir]
#6491989
03/15/19 10:12 PM
03/15/19 10:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,098 NC
Tailhunter
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There's better ways to add more fur to your end of year pics than shock springs IMHO Why does this forum not have a like button?
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Tailhunter]
#6492063
03/15/19 11:47 PM
03/15/19 11:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073 montana
red mt
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trapper
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There's better ways to add more fur to your end of year pics than shock springs IMHO Why does this forum not have a like button? Wondered that myself lol
Kenneth schoening
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6492099
03/16/19 12:31 AM
03/16/19 12:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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I go the cheap route and add stop shock springs to all my yote traps I personally think it wears them down faster. a tired animal don't fight as hard.Its the same concept as the flex on a fishing pole. And I care about the over all health of any critter ive caught! If I choose to release it im certain it wont run out of sight then die from internal injurys
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6492217
03/16/19 08:57 AM
03/16/19 08:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 148 Wyoming, Illinois
The Savage
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Wyoming, Illinois
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I run them and I like them, but they get plugged with mud and then you have a big chain link when it freezes. i'm probably in the minority, but I don't want to "kill em all" . If I catch one that is rubbed, or has been injured in a fight, I let them go. I run jakes, and they all have JC's shock spring. Oh, my chain set up is 3 ft long total, so normally about 18 to 24 inches above the ground when the earth anchor is buried .
My friends call me "The Savage"
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6492262
03/16/19 09:55 AM
03/16/19 09:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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im not to concerned with a yote but if I catch a red I like the option of knowing it can be released without it ending up killed by yotes.I firmly believe they can and do save shoulders
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: ADK95]
#6492554
03/16/19 04:12 PM
03/16/19 04:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,484 Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot
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Nebraska
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Whether or not a shock spring would really add much in regards to catches, I don't know. But I think there is a lot to be said for a person who takes good care of the critters they're trapping. IMO if adding shock springs to all of my traps prevents just one busted shoulder, they're a worthwhile addition. I've trapped a lot of coyotes but have never observed one that broke it's shoulder from being trapped. I don't run long chains or long extended checks so I'm not saying it can't or won't ever happen. But I would like to see statistics (actual evidence) from necropsies or other trusted means that it's causing major damage to their shoulders. Sure there could be some bruising or soreness but nothing life altering to them. Unless I'm provided with good evidence from testing with various lengths of chain I see no need to outfit every trap of mine with one. They may have there place in certain situations that you deal with and if they make you feel better then go ahead and use them.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: silkyplainscoyot]
#6492581
03/16/19 04:49 PM
03/16/19 04:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 54 PA
Pad Catch
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I have not viewed shock springs as much as a shoulder saver but more as an aid in retaining toe caught coyotes. I am also skeptical about the actual evidence that shoulders are torn up without shock springs
Living the Dream, One Fur at a Time.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6492602
03/16/19 05:22 PM
03/16/19 05:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,484 Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot
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Nebraska
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I have not viewed shock springs as much as a shoulder saver but more as an aid in retaining toe caught coyotes. I am also skeptical about the actual evidence that shoulders are torn up without shock springs If it were I, I would take the advice of others who mentioned putting the money into good equipment instead holding that occasional toe caught coyote. I haven't had a lot of toe catches but with my equipment the ones that I've had were still there the majority of the time. Sure I've lost few over the years due to toe catches but I'm not sure if a shock spring would of helped in those situations or not.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6492619
03/16/19 05:41 PM
03/16/19 05:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073 montana
red mt
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Posts: 5,073
montana
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I ll get toe catch every once in a while also. But when I do ,,,, I look on it as my mistake, poor guiding ,not enough tension. Or a weak springs on a trap . Or other odd reason. I think some of this can be contributed to the freeze thaw cycle between nite and day slowing trap down. Nothing is 100 % just some more to think about.
Kenneth schoening
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6492639
03/16/19 06:10 PM
03/16/19 06:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,066 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
"Callie's little brother"
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"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,066
Marion Kansas
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I started with a smaller size trap with a large pan and had toe catches frequently but switched to a #3 size trap mostly and pretty much most all of the toe catches went away. Still use the smaller trap some if I run out of clean traps and when do I they still get a higher percentage of toe catches than I like. With that I think I may put a little more dirt covering over my traps than some which may be a contributing factor. Just me experience.
This is targeting coyotes.
Last edited by Yes sir; 03/16/19 06:12 PM.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Pad Catch]
#6492655
03/16/19 06:37 PM
03/16/19 06:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,836 Pa
Wright Brothers
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We read on here all the time that a 4 coil trap dose not freeze as fast as a 2coil. If I add a shock spring (5coil) will that extra stored spring energy keep my sets even more unthawed? My experience of one shock spring is, a coon ate it lol. I figure my sample of one is about the same as none. We can listen to those that use em, listen to those with no experience, or try the dang things, crap there just traps.
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Golf ball]
#6492883
03/16/19 09:22 PM
03/16/19 09:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073 montana
red mt
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I just got off the phone with Ed Medvetz, the man is an encyclopedia of information on government trapping study’s. He claims the biggest advantage of the spring is to give the trap that extra split second to lockup . This is not an issue with a full pad catch but is with a toe catch and chains shorter than 20” . He also said they did a study in PA with Dp’s and had very few pull outs when adding a 32 lbs. spring for coon . The late Del Kramer also believed the same thing that is why he was a advocate for long chains.
Kenneth schoening
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Re: Shock Springs
[Re: Golf ball]
#6492894
03/16/19 09:30 PM
03/16/19 09:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 54 PA
Pad Catch
OP
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OP
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I just got off the phone with Ed Medvetz, the man is an encyclopedia of information on government trapping study’s. He claims the biggest advantage of the spring is to give the trap that extra split second to lockup . This is not an issue with a full pad catch but is with a toe catch and chains shorter than 20” . He also said they did a study in PA with Dp’s and had very few pull outs when adding a 32 lbs. spring for coon . Ed relayed those same sentiments to me as well. I know he is the spring manufacturer, but he had data to back it and told me just as many situations where springs wouldn't help as he did where springs would help. Ed is a straight shooter as far as I can tell.
Living the Dream, One Fur at a Time.
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