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Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6491120
03/14/19 08:36 PM
03/14/19 08:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,742
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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First collection today. We got 183 gallons from roughly 150 trees. Low sugar content at 2.1, so hope that changes. We have about that many trees to collect from tomorrow b4 leaving for the WTA meetings and banquet.
Tomorrow we collect from the gravity line trees we setup. Where we take our sap he has an RO machine. Some of the older syrup makers don't like using the RO system as they say because the sap is cooked less there is less of the stronger maple or caramel flavor. We like the late season dark syrup and the guy we take our sap too likes that as the more amber color syrup has higher value.

Bryce

Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6491544
03/15/19 10:44 AM
03/15/19 10:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,988
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
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La Crosse, WI
I tapped my one yard tree yesterday and it ran right away. Also tapped the one tree in my son's yard couple blocks away. I don't know what type maple mine or his is just that they are different. His tree din't run a drop when I drilled it? Last year was first time I tapped my son's tree and what ever kind of maple it is it did not run now where near as much as mine. Even though his tree is twice the size of mine. I don't know. I do think if the weather is like they say it will be this coming week. My yard tree should run pretty good. I may also head to the lake and tap my trees there even though still lot of snow on ground. Those trees are smaller and seem to run a week or so later than here.
I haven't been out yet this morning to check my yard buckets, I'm sure there will be some sap. Just no idea how much.

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: Maple time [Re: jctunnelrat] #6491554
03/15/19 11:04 AM
03/15/19 11:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 538
Ne pa
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Jerry Jr. Offline
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Ne pa
Originally Posted by jctunnelrat
Originally Posted by Jerry Jr.
This is our third year. I just dumped $500+ into setting up a reverse osmosis system. We boil on the stove so I guess it will pay for itself at some point.

Your kids will thank you! smile How is the rev osmosis system working out?


The RO system is working very well. Our sap is starting out at ~2% and I am able to get it up to ~8%, sometimes higher. Seems like the beginning is higher but I don't know how high, my hydrometer only goes to 8. We boil on the stove so it is a ton less boiling for us.


You can't buy experience, but you'll pay for it.
.... but what do I know, I'm just a dumb farmer. ~ My Dad.
NRA LIFE MEMBER, Endowment Member 5-23-14
Re: Maple time [Re: Jerry Jr.] #6491694
03/15/19 03:37 PM
03/15/19 03:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,742
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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Collected about 180 trees today and got 200 gallons. We are only getting 2% sugar the first collections. We are usually considerably higher. Not much happening today or for the next 2-3 days. Snow is down enough so my 4-wheeler can pull a small trailer out of the woods. We will tap our last 100 plus trees Sunday and Monday. Lot of road closings here yesterday and today. Makes moving around an interesting proposition.

Bryce

Re: Maple time [Re: bblwi] #6491716
03/15/19 04:24 PM
03/15/19 04:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 151
IN
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Ross Offline
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IN

Not much here today. Too warm last night but the next few days look good and then we will quit next Wednesday or Thursday. Time to clean up some dead ash trees and start messing with my paw paws. Also way behind on the beer brewing. So many important things that need done.

Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6491723
03/15/19 04:35 PM
03/15/19 04:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,848
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline OP
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We collected 160 gallons off of 115 trees. Not much of a run but next week looks like It could be a great run. 20s at night and 40s during the days.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6491727
03/15/19 04:37 PM
03/15/19 04:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,372
NNY
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080808 Offline
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080808  Offline
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NNY
Interesting question. We have a 2x8 and about 350 buckets. Wife claims she can taste difference in syrup having gone thru the RO process. When you remove a hi percentage of water are you also removing a hi percentage of minerals? In 8 yrs. she has never failed the test. lol. Not looking to cause a stir but food for thought.

Re: Maple time [Re: 080808] #6491738
03/15/19 05:06 PM
03/15/19 05:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 538
Ne pa
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Jerry Jr. Offline
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Ne pa
Originally Posted by 080808
Interesting question. We have a 2x8 and about 350 buckets. Wife claims she can taste difference in syrup having gone thru the RO process. When you remove a hi percentage of water are you also removing a hi percentage of minerals? In 8 yrs. she has never failed the test. lol. Not looking to cause a stir but food for thought.


No. The way it works with the filters is you are removing all the impurities (sugar). The other end gives you pure water. You do, however, remove a ton of boiling time.


You can't buy experience, but you'll pay for it.
.... but what do I know, I'm just a dumb farmer. ~ My Dad.
NRA LIFE MEMBER, Endowment Member 5-23-14
Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6491779
03/15/19 05:53 PM
03/15/19 05:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 192
NY
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NY
Temperature shot up yesterday and today . Today got up to 68 or so . One of the buckets had about 50 dead ants in the sap . I thought about filtering them but chickened out and dumped the sap . The next several days will be 20s at night and low 40s during the day . When do you quit collecting sap ? Does it just stop flowing or is there some other sign ?

Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6491797
03/15/19 06:19 PM
03/15/19 06:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,372
NNY
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080808 Offline
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NNY
Moths in buckets is one telltale.

Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6491798
03/15/19 06:20 PM
03/15/19 06:20 PM
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Posts: 1,372
NNY
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080808 Offline
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NNY
Jerry jr. I believe with an RO your removing water.

Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6491805
03/15/19 06:29 PM
03/15/19 06:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,848
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline OP
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Wisconsin
When the sap becomes cloudy that Is the sign there Is bacteria growing In the buckets.
When the temps get warmer the sap flows up through the tree and when It gets colder the sap returns to the root system. This continues till the tree becomes pressurized then you have no flow. You should have quit before this happens.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6492229
03/16/19 09:12 AM
03/16/19 09:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,197
Kanabec Cty, MN
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Drakej Offline
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Kanabec Cty, MN
Is one night cycle above are freezing(35-40F) in the middle of a two weeks of forecasted 40's days/20's nights enough to spoil second week of flow?


I've learned enough thru the years to now know that I don't know enough. KNOWLEDGE IS FREEDOM.
Re: Maple time [Re: Drakej] #6492241
03/16/19 09:24 AM
03/16/19 09:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 350
Perry, NY
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Dana I Offline
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Perry, NY
Originally Posted by Drakej
Is one night cycle above are freezing(35-40F) in the middle of a two weeks of forecasted 40's days/20's nights enough to spoil second week of flow?



No not likely. Sometimes it will run all day and all night if it stays warm enough at night but you can't handle too many of those or it will cause the trees to bud. Early in the season almost no risk of it spoiling your fun. Late in the season and it could end everything.

Re: Maple time [Re: 080808] #6492362
03/16/19 11:53 AM
03/16/19 11:53 AM
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Ne pa
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Originally Posted by 080808
Jerry jr. I believe with an RO your removing water.


You are separating them. Pure water comes out one line and the concentrate comes out the other. You want to keep the concentrate. When you flush the system you use the permeate water as not to introduce minerals from tap water. It is the same style system that you would use for domestic water. You have a pre-filter for removing solids followed by 3-5 ro filters with a needle valve to restrict the flow through the impurity (reject) side. This valve slows the reject flow allowing for a higher concentrate (or a higher yield of pure water). The only way I have to test the permeate water is with my hydrometer and it always reads 0. When I get home I will check tap water and see what it reads. I doubt I will be able to see a difference tho.

I guess what I am saying is that to my understanding if there are minerals in the sap they stay with the sugar. I suspect the difference in taste may be in the shorter boiling time.


You can't buy experience, but you'll pay for it.
.... but what do I know, I'm just a dumb farmer. ~ My Dad.
NRA LIFE MEMBER, Endowment Member 5-23-14
Re: Maple time [Re: bblwi] #6492375
03/16/19 12:03 PM
03/16/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 198
Tug Hill, NY
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Squash Offline
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Tug Hill, NY
Originally Posted by bblwi
8000 trees tapped and 800 gallons of syrup? Even at 40 to 1 that is 32,000 gallons of sap from 8,000 trees or 4 gallons of sap per tree. Are you sure of your numbers? Around here with 8000 trees most would yield about 1500 to 2500 gallons of syrup with that many trees. Especially with a vacuum system that typically gets more sap per tree or tap.

Bryce



So maybe I got his exact amount of gallons wrong, big deal, he still is tapping 8000 trees, are you the Maple sap police ?

Re: Maple time [Re: Squash] #6493072
03/17/19 01:02 AM
03/17/19 01:02 AM
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Posts: 5,742
East-Central Wisconsin
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No, not police just inquiring as to why the syrup gallons seem below what is typical from what I have read and worked with.

Bryce

Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6493192
03/17/19 08:40 AM
03/17/19 08:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 763
Chautauqua County, New York
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Chautauqua County, New York
If your RO is set up correctly one line will be your permeate and this will be pure water. There should be no sugar in it. The other line will be your concentrate. Depending on the type of membrane and on how many, you should be able to go from say 2% to 6 in a single pass and some will go higher then 10% in a single pass. The advantage of an RO is that you reduce your boil time as you have removed a lot of water before in ever goes into your pan. With the reduction in boil time you should be able to make lighter syrup as it is not exposed to the heat as long. Some say that they can tell a difference. Research At the Proctor Maple Center have debunked this. No difference other then more sap converted to syrup in a shorter period of time which leads to tapping more trees to get more sap to run through the RO to make more syrup to dang I need a bigger evaporator, larger tanks, more taps, better go with tubing, need a larger sugar shack, ...........vicious cycle.


The way to make a small fortune in business is to start with a large one.
Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6493229
03/17/19 09:01 AM
03/17/19 09:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,988
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
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La Crosse, WI
So if the RO leaves a guy with the pure water.. Are the big guys cycling that back in to their business in some way. Like bottling it as tree water? or maybe just for cleaning their system? Not saying that for a small operator it would be worth messing with. Except maybe to use in their steam iron or car battery, some other thing that would best use distilled water. Isn't that basically the same as distilled water? or maybe more like soft water?

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: Maple time [Re: The Beav] #6493244
03/17/19 09:08 AM
03/17/19 09:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 763
Chautauqua County, New York
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The permeate is saved and stored for flushing, and cleaning the RO, cleaning the pan, vacuum lines, every thing related to maple as it is pure and leaves no residues behind that could effect the taste in the syrup. Takes a lot of permeate to flush out all the gunk from the RO membranes.


The way to make a small fortune in business is to start with a large one.
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