Sounds like another wrench in the rat season structure. Advisory question?
How many times does this need to pass the CC?

Why the hesitation, what is the fear?

Come on Wisconsin!

The ghost still haunts us.

Ghost of specialist PAST!? OMG

Could be. But why?

Common opener or increased opportunity?

greed

Rat season should open state wide Oct 15th and close April 30th. With in those dates let the trapper decide when to start and when to finish.

now there's some words of wisdom

Pretty liberal stance Beav but I’m wondering if ultimately something like that would pass?
Sometimes/always we do have to make concessions and I’m tired of spinning my wheels.

Open water rat trapping is a great experience, if I had my druthers I'd take 2 weeks in April over 2 in November. One thing I do know, you're never going to get a consensus from trappers, everyone has an agenda.

Need more info. What happened

Absolutely spring is incredible. Wish we could get a little of both.

Addressing the other statement... What’s the most frustrating is the pettiness




Our muskrat season adjustment/extension has been pigeon holed so to speak.
After years of effort and more than one CC passage it’s been sent to the back of the line.
Eventually it may fail?

You'll have to excuse me as I forget. Who sets season? Or rather is it administrative rule or statutory

I don’t know the technical politics. WI has a conservation Congress process that makes recommendations to the wdnr. About rule changes through public suggestions. It’s a rigorous process

Marshrat you out there?

The reason for the setback was...”guys in the north never knew this change was coming”
So now it’s the CCs fault someone wasn’t paying attention?? Interrupting this forward movement is simply a critical flaw in our system.

Great consideration and debate went into this proposal. Design was not/should not pit north v south. It is attempt to reinstate science and common sense our season structure. It adds and includes opportunities for those trappers in seasonal trades that don’t get the luxury of the Fall exiperience

The old fashioned way.
http://images.library.wisc.edu/EcoN.../reference/econatres.dnrbull36.i0009.pdf

It's unfortunate that a few short sighted individuals take away opportunity for the rest. Keep working at it buddy

I also heard that many stated they never heard about the prospective change. I don't know a more public way or process then using the WCC and going to the hearings etc. If the vote is not to create split zones then that is what it should be. I was one who presented the argument for returning to our traditional 3 zone system, but if there is not support for it then let us find out. If the resolution was on up for a vote any and all interested could participate and vote accordingly. By delaying the vote we don't know what the rationale for that delay is. Delay is a way of not allowing the democratic process to function. I can live with the outcome either way but it seems that for some reason we are reluctant to move forward and or take the risk if you will. The data I put together looking at temps, ice etc. to me made good sense if one is looking at access in the fall for open water rat trapping.
The other benefit with the resolution was it expanded the seasons later or into the spring as well. Now there will always be debate regarding when traps should be out on the landscape spring and or fall. It gets political when we want to control whose traps are where and when.
If we look at the not too distant history seasons closed much, much earlier for rats and mink.
Bryce

I also heard that many stated they never heard about the prospective change. I don't know a more public way or process then using the WCC and going to the hearings etc. If the vote is not to create split zones then that is what it should be. I was one who presented the argument for returning to our traditional 3 zone system, but if there is not support for it then let us find out. If the resolution was on up for a vote any and all interested could participate and vote accordingly. By delaying the vote we don't know what the rationale for that delay is. Delay is a way of not allowing the democratic process to function. I can live with the outcome either way but it seems that for some reason we are reluctant to move forward and or take the risk if you will. The data I put together looking at temps, ice etc. to me made good sense if one is looking at access in the fall for open water rat trapping.
The other benefit with the resolution was it expanded the seasons later or into the spring as well. Now there will always be debate regarding when traps should be out on the landscape spring and or fall. It gets political when we want to control whose traps are where and when.
If we look at the not too distant history seasons closed much, much earlier for rats and mink.
Bryce

Thanks for your effort Bryce. Muskrat and wimarshrat also put a good deal of effort in its support.



We definitely missed the boat there. In the 40s Mathiak mentioned how we aiternated seasons to stockpile this resource....thank goodness we got away from that. Don’t forget that we are discussing a rodent with a 2 year lifespan. Yes historically we have had a protectionist attitude towards muskrats.

As opportunities increased methods evolved. Back then trappers quit when the swamp froze. However it is an indisputable fact that muskrats in under ice conditions are superior skins and growing. To ignore that fact is carelessness.

Too harvest beaver longer than muskrats is hypocrisy!

I am still here. Where do you want to start? 49ers question?

Currently, the season is set by administrative code. I have heard rumors that legislators might be interested in setting it in state statue if folks don't get this right this time. Not sure what is right or if they think the Congress has it wrong already. Lol

My gut tells me this is going legislative route.

That would be my suggestion but get it right

They just set the Fisher end date in statue last session so might as well do muskrat.

Might be time to organize a trappers day at the capital.

How’s that gonna affect us?

Best stock up on some Vaseline.

To simplify things maybe they’ll just incorporate and follow the beaver season? I’m surprised Olson didn’t think of that. Lol

That appears to be the path of least resistance.

That was my suggestion from the start, when this all started. I don’t remember who? But some people thought that wouldn’t work.

So all 5 of us are going to show up with 5 different thoughts on the subject. Because I'm not going to be Ok with 3 zone cluster and I can't see us In the South starting out on Nov first. And the other thing I feel that when they set a date It should be that date not the Saturday closest to that date. I know Muskrat feels that we are hindering the school kids by not opening It on a Saturday but If you want to trap then get It done.

If rat season starts with beaver dates that would end most open water fall trapping in the north. And spring ice out dates are more inconsistant than ice up dates in the fall. I like Beav's suggestion. Have a wide window and leave it up to the trapper to work with the weather each year.

I can only see one conflict with that way. And that would pertain to public lands. One trapper wants to be the first there and catches the majority number of rats. And another trapper prefers to wait for prime late fur. But now the numbers are depleted.

Keep in mind that this has absolutely no affect on me as I only trap private ground.

I guess the same could be said about coon, coyotes, fox, etc. Some people will not wait until fur is ready; it has always been the case. But I don't think the answer is to set dates so late that it eliminates the ability to open water trap in the fall. Northern fall rats sell fine.

I'm betting that 7 days one way or the other Isn't going to effect the degree of primness at the start of the season. 200 semi prime rats are worth more then 50 prime rats caught through the Ice. With a lot less work.

I don’t like Beavs suggestion BUT I would support it. I never start on the opener anyway and always am trapping at the end. That said my only concern is the back end, I would certainly take advantage of that opportunity and put my March average against anyone’s October average any day!

I trapped rats In ND up till May 9th one year. I got a $7.00 average on those rats so they must have been pretty good. And yes there were some bit up rats but the majority were just fine. The end of the season Is where It's at end of April would work for me.

https://mntrappers.org/trappers-day.html

I see one of our neighboring states had a day at the capital. Maybe it is time WI has one. Anyone attend the MN event? Was it helpful?

In the 70s and early 80s the refuge went till April 15. Which is more then enough here. Really

Remember the state has two season end dates for Beaver because of the two zones. Asking to follow those end dates gives us end of March in South and end of April in North. That said, does this eliminate the need for any other rules by aligning seasons? The rule about different trap sizes during difference in seasons could be eliminated, right? Anything else? Eliminates the rule about incidental muskrat/mink during the spring Beaver season.

Where do we go from here?

It seems obvious that following “Mathiak Science” is outdated and unpopular, with the years of research he failed to account for that human factor...emotions, in the form of perceived access and competition.

.

Thanks for saying it out loud Beav! Somebody needed to. Why? Because if with spend our time whispering in our managers ears nothing will ever get accomplished.



If we asked to start the beaver season earlier then consolidate the seasons would that be more plausible?
Or am I still barking up the wrong tree? HELP!

Was out yesterday. Spring is amazing!

So we've got an opener that our dipstick legislators decided to start at midnight anyway, and you continue to want your same date opener annually which could land on a school night most of the time. So the kid attends school all day, football practice after school, gets home, eats, does homework, gets gear ready, then starts setting traps at midnight.

Or the kid waits 'til the next Saturday and is greeted in the nearest public marsh by flags waving from every 'rat hut.

Pure genius, Beav. Cuts down on the competition, eh?

Muskrat, if a kid is in football they would have a tough time running traps unless it was in the dark. Kid would probably have to wait until football was over, or quit sports. Might as well learn early ya can't do everything, pick your poison.

So to ease your frekin mind we will have a youth opener just like turkey season. So that way Dad can have his kid set all his traps too.
If a kid wants to trap then he will find a way.
Just like when duck season started In the middle of the week. If you wanted to duck hunt you were In the marsh not In the class room. Kids must have changed since I was one. And we took the whole week off from school to go north to deer hunt.
I feel sorry for the kids of today that can't get up at midnight to set a few rat traps.

That one year was a long time ago. Maybe 2013 when most furs spiked @ NAFA?
Today is a different day. Quit living in the past.

Just saying that rats caught as late as May are still saleable. So a April closing would be Ok. If that's living In the past so be It. I think It's called making a point.

Great attitude! You must make one heck of an instructor.

Somehow, back in the 60s, I ran 50 traps in the dark, on open water and on ice, before school daily and still made the school bus at 7:00 am. Wrestling practice was after school.

You must've either been a cheerleader or in the band, eh?

Everyone knows the state is not going to go away from a Saturday start so let's just let it go. It is a immovable object so any banter on it is a waste of time IMO.

Personal, I say we forget about the opener and push for the extension. When legislators naturally ask for our opinion on season dates here, we emphasis the importance of getting the close right first. If pushed, we go down the two dates for the two zones. I think the best bet for them might be something similar to MN. A Saturday closest to date for each zone that would give us a common opener some years and separate openers others.

LOL!

You keep on looking out for number one, meanwhile, I'll keep on looking out for the kids. If we lose the kids, we'll lose trapping as we know it here in Wisconsin. Both of us will be dead and long gone before that happens, but I'll do everything I can to keep it alive for the kids.

You would need to get Governor Evers to sign it. You are not getting an April closing in the south IMO.

LOL!

You keep on looking out for number one, meanwhile, I'll keep on looking out for the kids. If we lose the kids, we'll lose trapping as we know it here in Wisconsin. Both of us will be dead and long gone before that happens, but I'll do everything I can to keep it alive for the kids.

No I'm looking out for everyone. What about all the trappers who work weekends?

The only person on this forum who voted for Evers was Muskrat. LOl

Great attitude! You must make one heck of an instructor.

Somehow, back in the 60s, I ran 50 traps in the dark, on open water and on ice, before school daily and still made the school bus at 7:00 am. Wrestling practice was after school.

You must've either been a cheerleader or in the band, eh?

So now your bad mouthing band members and cheer leaders. I thought It was all about the kids.

Beav . . . you gotta back off on the Geritol. Sheesh!

I think that the lowly rodents (rats) would be really amazed at how much turmoil is created by reasoning and learned humans about when and who should manage their harvest and resource. I have trapped in the north and south and central areas of WI with and without the three, two and single zone system I have yet to have one rat tell me I should not have a trap in that spot at that time but it sure seems a lot of trappers feel that we need political interference on this issue.

Bryce

Spring? According to my vehicle it was -2 in God's country this morning

It sounds like you got out of the drift. LOl my battery went dead so I lost you.

Muskrat, I dated a few cheerleaders does that count? But you sir come off like a feminine hygiene product.

Good one RM. Always default to what you understand best.

Gods country doesn’t sound like any place I want to live in.

Rat you don't know the Muskrat. He marches to his own drum beat.

LOL

I thought I was the one in the band.

Have any ever told you to Stop on first Saturday of March?

Rats tell us many things we just ain’t good listeners. 😁

I had a crush on a cheerleader, does that count?

Was he good looking?

Ok, great body! Yum

The stall tactics are working... I can’t even stay focused on my own thread. Omg

Thanks for all the efforts gentleman... I'm not a big fan of people that sit back and complain, when you haven't participated in trying to change the outcome.
Your involvement is appreciated!

So is the general consensus 2 zones, with Hwy 64 as a boundary? Same as everything else.

Or do you think we really need 3 zones as in the past?

The general consensus is . . . there is no general consensus.

This horse was beat to death last year. I can still hear the final wails from the poor beast.

The northern guys want an early opener to at least get some open water trapping before ice up, but don't want the southern guys invading "their turf." So they want the statewide opener.

The southern guys want a later opener so 'rats can grow a bit bigger and be a bit more prime before legal harvest.

There are those who say trap when you want and open the state up early, but obviously don't trap large public marshes.

We wouldn't be in this mess if a couple of influential individuals hadn't diddled with the season dates for one reason only: greed.

The founders of the WTA worked hard to secure staggered season openers to coincide with muskrat fur primeness.

Now we play politics.

The one area were most agreed was the end. I think we can go in united on extending the season. If and when legislators ask about the start, we stay we are focused on the end because that is where we could find strong consensus. We are frustrated that it continues to get lost (and even made worse) as folks bicker about the start.

But if they want to know our thoughts on season start, we lay it out very similar to what you outlined Muskrat, minus the tone. Look, if we are together at the capital, we will have each side represented. If they want to give weight to all thoughts, we propose something like MN and their two zones that may or may not start on the same weekend. If they want simplification, then we say go with a common opener across the board. If they want to give more weight to the resource, then they go with three zones. If they are willing to keep us in the loop, and bounce their ideas off us as a group, then we will defend that decision coming out as a group.

Lastly, we notify the WTA, Conservation Congress, and the FB page Wisconsin Trappers of our intentions, and encourage them to participate in this discussion.

Here ya go. Simplification at its best for those who struggle interpreting calendars. Everything opens October 1, everything closes April 30. Statewide.

Have at it.

Sorry for the tone. What happened to the science and managing of wildlife.

Greed? How many guys will travel from Dane county to Vilas county to trap rats?

1 zone that keeps every one on the same page no zone jumping that should keep every one happy.
Fur primness? Do you really think 1 week will make that much difference In fur primness. It might have some effect if you were talking a Sept opening but starting In late Oct I can't see It.

1 zone with a Oct opening and a March 31 closing. And while were at It make It a Oct opening for all species.

Muskrat, you can't always take it to the extreme. Simplification can and is a good thing many times. Many times it makes it easier to prove your point.

Our focus on extending muskrat season with beaver will start to reinforce the need for at least two zones start without ever taking a stance on the start. We get to hammer the differences across the zone and when questioned why such a big difference between the two, we note the strong differences from the top of the zone to the bottom. I doubt we can get them to go to the three zones, but they will be much more likely to go with the two zone start.

We could do like SD did a few years ago to stop out of state trappers coming early. Set the season from December 15 till April 1st. That eliminates all most all the open water concerns and we can go anywhere we want when we want and most rats will be better. If we can't agree when to start and who should be where and when maybe we should just make it so all have the same deal. The north would lose out again if the ice gets thick and 3 foot of snow but maybe it is better than sniping over earlier rats and who is catching them.

Bryce

You have to be kidding right. No one In there right mind Is going to come to WI from out of state to trap rats.

I would tomorrow.

. Don’t you need to fix that NR problem on your side of the river first? Then you can do battle with Chris on his turf.

I did when they were 10 dollar rats. It was greed that made me do it.

Then you should have gone to ND where they have some rats. Even at $4.00 averages you couldn't make any money state hopping. But a $6.00 you could.

Even If you could you would be to late. LOL

Could we try this?

com·pro·mise
/ˈkämprəˌmīz/Submit
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
"an ability to listen to two sides in a dispute, and devise a compromise acceptable to both"
synonyms: agreement, understanding, settlement, terms, accommodation; More
verb
1.
settle a dispute by mutual concession.
"in the end we compromised and deferred the issue"
synonyms: meet each other halfway, find the middle ground, come to terms, come to an understanding, make a deal, make concessions, find a happy medium, strike a balance; More
2.
accept standards that are lower than is desirable.

So far you have just been sitting on your hands and haven't come up with what you would support. Get off the fence. LOL

I’d start with combining all water animals.
2 zones hwy 64
Close March 31.& April 15
Open don’t care.

Sounds like a perfect plan:)

I could live with that. But toss In a Oct 25th opening In both zones.

So we are going to shorten the beaver season in the north by two weeks? Hearing beaver complaints are pretty high. WS took a record level the year before and all the folks in the DNR Furbearer advisory meeting were talking about beaver every where.
https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/documents/committees/furbearer/fur052318.pdf

They tried shortening season not too long ago and there was strong pushback from the folks. Did I miss the resurgence of beaver prices and increased trapping pressure?

There Is no closed beaver season. If there are beaver doing damage some one Is going to be trapping them.

The beaver season does not need to be shortened. The muskrat season needs to be extended. Two seperate issues. I think trying to combine the two will be too difficult to reach an agreement.

That is why I chose the words "would tomorrow" and not be back again next year.

I'm trying to get it fixed. I'm facing the same barriers Chris is encountering

If you get It done then I'm betting you go to ND first. I got a place you can stay.

Ok leave the beaver season to April 30 up there but any problems making it earlier?

In todays market an earlier beaver season start might be ok, but again, why complicate the muskrat issue by matching beaver? If we do that what happens if the dnr wants to shorten the beaver season again? Muskrat dates would probably change with them.

You have to be kidding right. No one In there right mind Is going to come to WI from out of state to trap rats.

No I was not kidding, but being sarcastic. It was not intended for NR trappers it was how we could resolve when to start the season. If we waited long enough all the trapping would be through the ice and we would all be treated equally. Not saying that it is what I like, but the more we argue about it ourselves the more likely those that never trap will establish the seasons we get to use.
There is a lot of discussion on this forum on how society, culture etc. has changed and is going down hill. We as trappers need to look in the mirror and recogninze we have moved right along with all we detest. Whether the seasons of the past were fair or good is not so much the question as they were in place for a generation, now we can't agree on even a start for the season time of day late alone time of year.

Bryce

How much?

So do I. Had a fella from Florence stay with me a month some years back. He even brought his uncle. It’s a pleasure meeting good people. I often look forward to running into my competitors.

It started when I was nineteen, I got real brave and went up around Hurley to trap beaver. I had never caught one and off I goes. First off, I find this pond and make 2 sets walks back to my truck to be greeted by an ornery old Finn, he chews me a new one about how he trapped this pond and so on. After that I was about ready to quit there wasn’t much wind left in these sails lol. Well I bounced back and plowed forward went along and made a couple more sets. Hours later, miles back on this two track I hear a loud truck bouncin down this washboard road. Thinking here we go again? Well he’s coming and now he pulls over. Out jumps a big burly woodsman, he got beaver in the back end and knows what I’m up to. he hollers “ never seen you before, where you from”. I returns, “fond du lac and no worries cause I ain’t got a clue about these beavers”. He bellers “fond du lac? Are u nuts?” Now he’s moving towards me on the bank he’s looking around and says “ last time I passed through here this was froze...it’s ready now so grab me a trap “. A trap? I says. “Ya a trap”. Now I’m a little scared and a lot confused. So I asked which trap? He says “whichever one you got”. That special fella from Hurley caught me my first beaver in the trap he set for me. I tried to pass it on a few times too.

Good chance you'd be wrong.

If everyone is happy with the opener as it is leave it alone and get two weeks on the back

Ya in hindsight Mathiak mAy have micro managed some. If it was all mine I would’ve done it the same way. I have the utmost respect for his work. He used the boots on the ground for information and those were some big boots.

I also like Brian and Justin’s idea of combining the seasons. April 30 seems overdone on rats but it probably ain’t enough to worry about.

Perceived failure can be hard to swallow. It’s frustrating when well intentioned ideas meet peer resistance. Sometimes do we try too hard to get it right? I guess if we were really on point and listening this would have finally moved forward.
As an author of the resolution I realized that some edits are in order. I believe that may be all that’s needed to move this along and keep the process away from our capital?

Don't give up buddy. This resistance pales in comparison to the resistance we met up with in '89-'91 during the pursuit of mandatory trapper ed and its funding sources. At least you're not getting the angry phone calls and letters in the mail, 'course that was pre-internet too.

So far I have yet to see any season structure from you. What do you think will work.

Has anyone called Shawn yet? He would be the first to call to get his input.

Beav,
Bryce, myself, muskrat and wimarshrat were all instrumental in the “3 zone cluster”
We really can’t take and don’t deserve the credit tho. It was based on the recommendations of a Wisconsin scientist Harold Mathiak. Who spent 20+ years studying the little buddies.

Nimzy , just want to say I very much appreciate what you and others have done in trying to this going. After years of thinking about it but not making it enough of a priority, i attended the spring hearings last year for the first time largely in part because of the muskrat season proposal . I dont plan on missing them in the future and and have been encouraging other family and freinds to start attending as well . Im curious do you know or does anyone else here know how how long we had a three zone mink/ muskrat season structure in place for ? Meaning about when was it implemented? I dont recall ever hearing or reading a starting timeframe for that. You mention Mathiaks influence- so was it from like the early 1950sor 60 when it started- Up until about 2012 when it was done away with?

Keep workin brother.

Shawn would have the exact season dates for how long the the 3 zone season was in effect but my best guess would be roughly 30 years, maybe more.
The DNR archives would have the exact dates as to when implemented and when the season changed to a two zone system, prior to becoming statewide opening.
The proposal we put together through the fur harvest committee is public and therefore that information can be accessed quite easily I presume. It should be in the hearing info as a WCC advisory question. As stated by Nimzy we offered our proposals at 3-4 counties and when we met at the WCC fur harvester committee the three basic similar proposals were melded into what you will have in front of you in April. I also spoke at the WCC executive or leadership meeting regarding our proposal as I was told that would enhance our chances of moving forward. This was my first go round with working with resolutions.
How this goes will be up to the trappers who vote for it or against it. The part that upsets me the most is we chose to utilize the public system that we have and the implications by some is that we are trying to sneak this past an unaware group. Can't get much more public than the system we have to utilize.
Bryce

imagine if we had 3 days left...……..

Big Thanks TO WIMarshrat, Muskrat and bblw i!! for time and efforts

Special thanks to Craig S for coming out of the shadows and letting us know we are not alone!

^^^yep^^^The ice is going off the lake now. Little critters are everywhere. Even eating grass in my backyard.

Another 3 days wouldn't get you any or much open water around here. Another week or so Is what we need.

Ice for as far as the eye can see up here on the lakes. Some open water on the rivers, though!

Chris

I'm proud of the the resistors, but you lost.

You guys ever think Mr Manninen isn't concerned about having open water!

been following...hope this gets settled

How much open water do you want?


this enough? March 15 2019. 20+ inches of ice on the bays in Unit 4.


This whole thing started about 10 years ago. Peach and I were just plain frustrated how we had to quit right as the nicest rats we produced all season were starting to come out. It didn't make sense to either of us.
We decided to try a citizens resolution to address the problem. Originally we chose NOT to go for open water because we feared it could meet fierce resistance. We selected March 31 because we believed it offered good opportunity with an equal probability of frozen or open conditions, In other words, some years you may get a couple days of open water and the next year get none.. We uncovered a phobia of a March harvest.

Have those sentiments towards a spring season changed?

Fast forward to this version. Its a copy of our old science brought back to life, zones and all. Good common sense stuff.
However, We failed to consider the people factor. Perhaps season structures are more subjective than objective?
A message has been sent by this going back to Advisory.

Seems like today the concern has shifted to the front end and zones?

Under the rules of the CC is it possible to revisit and edit this proposed rule change to make it more pliable?

It would be nice if it could get extended a bit. I was walking along the shoreline of a pond Thursday night looking for beaver dens. I came up on some muskrat entrances that I sure would have liked to have been able to set. A week ago the ice was such that I couldn't even get in the water.

Class is open gentlemen, shift your paradigms

Well It looks to me that the trapper created open water. I want to be able to put the boat In and trap rats. Not run around On unsure Ice and chop or chain saw holes In the Ice.

Gary, then use the front end of the season! Great care was made to ensure ample time was provided across all zones for open water access on the front of the season.

I have said it before, but what is opportunity for some is a risk for the rest of us? What starts as your advantage, becomes a disadvantage. Can ensuring open water every year do this that we are trying to avoid?

You were/are missing out. If Wisconsin had a true open water spring season, sadly most would miss out on the tremendous opportunity late ice offers Stuck in the paradigm.

My buddy calls winter the separator season.

I'm sure it's been brought before but what happens if one asks for too much?

Now you sound like some Politician. What risk? And what are we trying to avoid?


It seems that all this posturing Is about saving the threatened Rat population. If you aren't smart enough to start and finish when the fur Is trappable you shouldn't be In the marsh.
This last week the ice on my marsh was so honeycombed that you couldn't get on It and 2 weeks before that you would out using the chain saw or the spud to trap rats. And that Isn't cutting It for the younger generation and us old guys. That may be just fine for you guys with a size 44 shirt and a size 3 hat but that isn't going to cut It for the rest of us.

And 49er wears a size 50 shirt and I'm not to sure about his hat size, LOL

I'm going to start next week on my ADC rat work and I'm betting that those rats will be the best rats of the year.

"Now you sound like some Politician."

"And that Isn't cutting It for the younger generation and us old guys."

It's for the children and people on fixed income.

Gary, not every spring is like this one . Our beaver season closes may 12. It's entirely possible there are areas won't see ice out, next year we may see an April 10th ice out. You take the bad with the good.

WHT you are trying to avoid is not building consensus, of course I sound like a politician let's face it that's how the process works. I think I could push a 2 or three week extension on rats here in MN I ask for six I'll get laughed out of the building. Politics

LMFAO.