And also if an up and coming trapper wants to catch their first fisher, and maybe keep the interest in continuing to trap, what's the harm. And believe it or not all kid can't decide to go to another part of the state to trap, they are stuck with an area around home base.

It would be nice to know, this was my first and learned about it coming up on here. I went to the DNR web site the day of the hearings and I had to search for the location info and questions. They couldn't even dedicate a little web page space to advertise the hearings. Maybe the people giving them are tired of it and want it to end. That may be why they are pushing the online voting, I can see no good coming from that. I am originally a Mud Duck, so the Conservation Congress was new to me and I never took the time to learn the importance. The online voting will make it like all voting in WI were the big cities have the votes and the rural areas don't mater much. Too many people so far removed from the land they don't have a clue who foots the bill for wildlife and fisheries management. It's time to cut this state in half!

I do think it is seen as an inconvenience by many DNR staff, Line Jumper, but I don't know as they are to blame for the crazy new online vote format.

I've been avid at this Conservation Congress thing for a couple decades. It is interesting to hear what some of the newbies think.

Maybe CC has aged beyond it's usefuleness, I have no idea. I intend to keep participating.

While it has always been welcoming to everyone, I don't think its intent was ever for some of these anti's to get on board and try to rattle things up.

Ah, cmon, let er rip tater chip

One consideration regarding the length of the fisher season would be which option may help get the better estimates of the population, expansion of area etc. The longer seasons with fewer permits and further time span between getting a permit or shorter seasons with shorter time spans between getting permits?
If the same number of permits are issued each season with longer seasons there may be more incidental fishers caught by later season canine and coon trappers. Do incidentals reported and not reported sway populations minimally or moderately.
I would think that longer seasons in moderately dense fisher areas would lead to more incidentals. Also with more fisher being seen in the central north part of the state more people trapping fishers reside in those areas and also have many other fur bearers they are trapping as well. In the early years of fisher seasons many of the trappers with permits were deer hunters living south of the fisher zones and trapping a few days or times in the north. We are now seeing fisher trapping more of a residential harvest situation and that may well need a different approach which I am sure will be researched over time.

Bryce

I wonder when fisher fur usually starts going downhill. My guess is not until a ~month after season closes.

Huh! I know I am a little slow but how would a longer fisher season affect incidentals on the coyote an coon line? The only way I can think of is said trapper had a fisher tag, and kept trapping coyote and coon until the fisher tag was filled, the last day he could have incidental fisher after tagging the first. I still say until we get rid of some bobcats we will not get our fisher back.

Do bobcats and fisher not coexist well? Serious question. I don't know.

I would anticipate more incidentals caught by trappers w/o fisher tags with the traps out several days longer which would allow for more opportunities for catches of species with lower densities and larger and longer circuits.

As to fisher and bobcats we should talk with other state departments that have concentrations of both species such as MN, MI and northern New England and NY.
Both are aggressive and territorial, but more importantly prey on the same species in many areas. I think fishers also may adapt better or faster to a more mixed habitat of farm, forest, suburban than cats that in some ways are more reclusive.

Bryce

I don't think DNR knows why the fisher population has slid in some areas. That's not a nock on DNR, I just don't think anyone knows for sure.

The best explanation for our lack of fishers is an abundance of bobcats . Whether it is competition for food or cats killing fisher I don't know. I have heard rumor NE MN has seen problems with bobcats killing fisher.

All I can say is we are loosing our fisher and cats are everywhere.

I agree 100%

The southern zone bobcat quota has increased every year since we 1st got a season, and yet people seem to be seeing more bobcats than ever. I wonder if the southern quota will increase again this year.

WDNR has been collaring bobcats. The research gained will be interesting. Too bad they can't collar a fisher.

I caught an incidental cat in 2017 and they came and put a collar on it. It was an older adult female, they said they would send me the tracking results periodically, which they did one time, it only lasted another month and was harvested.

There has been some evidence gathered in MN as reported by our biologist that predation of fisher by bobcats is occurring and possibly enough to affect fisher populations where cat numbers are high.

https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mcvmagazine/issues/2014/jan-feb/bobcats.html

While the biologists don't believe bobcats alone have much impact on the deer population, Erb has evidence the growing bobcat population might be affecting another furbearer—the fisher. A study Erb is conducting has shown fisher populations have declined in the core bobcat range.

"This notable fisher decline is not apparent in the northeastern part of our fisher range or along the southern and western periphery of fisher range," Erb says. "There, fishers appear to either be stable or, in some areas, increasing."

But in the core bobcat area—which largely overlaps the core fisher area—fisher numbers are down. The two species undoubtedly compete for some prey, and Erb has documented many fishers killed by bobcats.

"This mortality is a double-whammy because the fishers that have been killed tended to be adult females, and it is occurring during the fisher denning season," Erb says. "When the adult is killed, her whole litter dies."

The study is ongoing, and Erb says he still has many things to learn. "The fisher population declines aren't simply related to bobcats," he says. "I think there are other factors, including overharvest and some forest management issues. But I do believe the increasing bobcat population is certainly a part of what we are seeing."]

Thanks for that info 49er, I had heard rumors but there it is in black and white. In the area I trap deer are still in the recovery stage from a very low population. But on a high note The snow shoes are making a comeback. It has been many a year since a high cycle.

49er, that was brought up in WI a couple of years ago. WI was going to lead an effort to study it(adaptive management), but unfortunately, the state couldn't get the stakeholders on board. They were going to open up the cat harvest in an area and see how the fisher population responded.

Folks were worried about those folks that had spent 6-10 years waiting for a cat tag only to have their area opened up to a more liberal harvest. I guess none of those folks would be happy if they could get a cat tag the next year too. LOL

Cats have far, far more political clout in WI than fishers do and that can be seen in many ways. Cats can be hunted with guns, hounds or trapped and thus many can go after this "trophy" in many different formats with lots of political energy behind many groups. Fishers can only be trapped and thus attract far, far less interest. We can see it also in the permit systems where it is about 4 times faster to get a fisher tag as it is to get a cat tag.

Biologically when two lower density predators compete with each other and can kill each other, or one more so than another it does not take many deaths to change the landscape considerably. Which ever species gets the nod from man and management will win out easily.
In WI there is for many much more prestige in catching cats than most other species. As long as that exists cats will get the attention that hunters and trappers want them to get.
Bryce

Linejumper here is some more reading for you.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ITY_FOR_FISHERS_AND_MARTENS_IN_MINNESOTA

Only in Wisconsin would it be prestigious to catch a bobcat. The only hard part about would be drawing a tag.

Trapping bobcats is sport.