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Do fisher kill lynx? #6512171
04/07/19 12:10 PM
04/07/19 12:10 PM
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ebsurveyor Offline OP
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A few months ago we discussed this in detail and many did not believe a little 10 pound fisher could kill a big mean 30 pound lynx. Well last July the researchers in Maine published the results of a 12 year study in The Journal of Wildlife Management 82(8):1775–1783; 2018; DOI: 10.1002/jwmg.21538. It is an interesting read (especially for me as I trap in the area they studied). I could not find the complete study, Fisher Predation on Canada Lynx in the Northeastern United States, on line but I can email the pdf to you if you message your email address to me. You might be able to read the report here if you monkey around a little: https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.21538

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512181
04/07/19 12:29 PM
04/07/19 12:29 PM
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Maine
beezmador Offline
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Seems that there is plenty of evidence to support it, especially larger male fishers...and now Maine has made trapping fisher so much more challenging. Misguided regulations at best....

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...shers-prey-on-Canada-Lynx-in-Maine-news/


Member of NTA, MTA and FTA - keeping up the Fight for our Right to trap
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512198
04/07/19 12:45 PM
04/07/19 12:45 PM
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Nessmuck Offline
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Good read ! Thanks for posting


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512199
04/07/19 12:48 PM
04/07/19 12:48 PM
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white17 Offline

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Man that's a pretty small sample to draw that conclusion. 12 instances of MAYBE a fisher killing a lynx in 12 years ?? It would take more than that to convince me that it happens on a regular basis.


Mean As Nails
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512229
04/07/19 01:43 PM
04/07/19 01:43 PM
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Table 3. Mortality sources of 65 Canada lynx in northern Maine, USA,
1999 and 2011.
Mortality source n
Predation by fisher 14
Predation by unknown predator 2
Likely predation by fisher 2
Starvation 17
Undetermined 17
Legal harvest in Canada 7
Illegal harvest 3
Vehicle collision 2
Disease (hyperthyroidism) 1

The illegal harvest were two shot in traps & on found (with tracking collar) behind a couch in someone's living room, if I remember correctly.

Last edited by ebsurveyor; 04/07/19 01:47 PM.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512234
04/07/19 01:47 PM
04/07/19 01:47 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Maybe a kitten or a starving lynx would be vulnerable.
A big adult lynx-no way a fisher would find that a desireable target among other plentiful targets that would be way easier.The speed at which a lynx can cover ground when attacking is unmatched.Their long large back legs are like springs.I have seen lynx cross a hiway in one bound from shoulder to center to shoulder faster than I can say it.In winter the poor fisher would be at such a disadvantage it would be no contest.
The fisher would be slashed to ribbons.

Last edited by Boco; 04/07/19 01:53 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512237
04/07/19 01:51 PM
04/07/19 01:51 PM
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ebsurveyor Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Boco
Maybe a kitten or a starving lynx would be vulnerable.
A big adult lynx-no way a fisher would find that a desireable target.
The fisher would be slashed to ribbons.


Table 5. Demographic information and body condition of 14 resident Canada lynx killed by fishers in northern Maine, USA, 1999 and 2011.
Lynx
identification Sex
Age
class
Cementum
age
Date of estimated
mortality Status of carcass
Weight of remains
(kg)
Bone marrow
conditiona
L6 F Adult N/A 24 Jan 2000 Partial (head absent) 5.9 Healthy
L8b F Kitten 0 yr 8 mo 24 Jan 2000 Whole 6.2 Healthy
L36 F Adult Not aged 10 Jan 2002 Whole 7.9 Not collected
L38 F Adult 4 yr 6 mo 20 Nov 2002 Partial (head and neck present) N/A
L44 F Adult 4 yr 9 mo 20 Feb 2007 Partial (4 legs present) Healthy to fair
L67 F Adult N/A 28 Jan 2006 Partial (head and legs absent) 5.0 Not collected
L93 F Adult 5 yr 8 mo 25 Jan 2009 Partial (head, neck, and 4 limbs
present)
Not collected
L96 M Adult N/A 3 Feb 2007 Partial (front half of body absent) 5.4 Healthy
L125 F Adult 4 yr 9 mo 13 Feb 2007 Partial (viscera and hindquarter
absent)
5.8 Healthy
L114 M Adult 5 yr 10 mo 10 Mar 2010 Partial (neck, head, hind quarters
present)
Fair
L137 F Adult N/A 3 Feb 2007 Partial (head absent) 5.3 Healthy
L140 M Adult N/A 5 Mar 2009 Partial (clumps of hide present) N/A
L156 M Adult N/A 7 Apr 2009 Partial (legs and viscera present) 5.2 Fair
L157 M Adult Not aged 15 Feb 2009 Partial (head, neck, and one leg
present)
Healthy
a Bone marrow was classified as healthy when white, solid, and waxy, malnourished (fair) when red and solid, and poor when red and gelatinous (Cheatum
1949).
b A kitten without a radio-collar was found cached at the same site as the partial carcass of its radiocollared mother, L6.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512239
04/07/19 01:56 PM
04/07/19 01:56 PM
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It is unlikely that fishers killed lynx in Maine as a result of a
specific, learned behavior by 1 or 2 individuals, nor as a result
of preying upon weaker individuals. Instead, the spatial and
temporal distributions of lynx mortalities (Fig. 2) encompassed
the territories of multiple radio-collared fishers over a
12-year period (MDIFW, unpublished data), suggesting
that fishers were opportunistic predators of lynx. In addition,
during the first 8 years of the study when snowshoe hare
densities were >1 hare/ha, only female lynx were killed by
fishers, possibly because of their smaller body size. However,
when hare densities declined to <1 hare/ha, more lynx were
killed (64%) and both male and female lynx were killed,
suggesting that fishers were opportunistically killing what
they encountered (Golightly et al. 2006).
Although fishers are not as well adapted as lynx in
environments with deep snow because of their shorter legs,
they are better adapted to these conditions than other
predators in the region that have a higher foot-load (e.g.,
coyotes; Krohn et al. 2004). The absence of other known
predators of lynx (e.g., wolverines, mountain lions, wolves) in
northern Maine, along with favorable habitat conditions,
may have created a unique opportunity for fishers. Although
fishers are smaller and weigh less than lynx (x¼4.6 kg,
n¼20; MDIFW, unpublished data), they are aggressive
predators, which under the right circumstances can give
them an advantage over lynx. Despite the size difference, our
data show that fishers are capable of selecting a more
profitable prey item in winter (Type III functional response),
but there was no information to demonstrate that fishers are
competitively excluding lynx from habitats, or are limiting
the range or number of lynx in Maine.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512255
04/07/19 02:13 PM
04/07/19 02:13 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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The guy that wrote that is an idiot.
Every trapper in Lynx country knows that the major predator of lynx is other lynx.In fact the only major predator.
Wolves will take the odd one if they can catch one in the open which is very rare.
I would say with confidence that any lynx that were scavenged by fisher were killed by other lynx at the low end of the hare cycle.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512260
04/07/19 02:19 PM
04/07/19 02:19 PM
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Northern Maine
Jeremiah Wood Offline
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I followed up with Scott McLellan regarding this study after the discussion on here a few months ago. He swears by it, and welcomed anyone to contact him for more info. I didn't bring it up again because I didn't think it was worth arguing about....people are going to believe what they want to believe, and many just will not be convinced that a fisher can kill a lynx, regardless of the evidence.

Wow, come to think of it, this is eerily similar to the East vs West debate over whether bobcats kill deer, back in the 1930's and '40's!!!!

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512262
04/07/19 02:20 PM
04/07/19 02:20 PM
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Maine
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The very worst thing that has EVER happened to the Maine trapper is when that f---ing Lynx moved over the line. That very movement has ended true long line fisher and marten trapping in Maine, as well badly hampered canine and actually any other trapping.



Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512265
04/07/19 02:21 PM
04/07/19 02:21 PM
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Northern Maine
Jeremiah Wood Offline
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Originally Posted by Boco
The guy that wrote that is an idiot.
Every trapper in Lynx country knows that the major predator of lynx is other lynx.In fact the only major predator.
Wolves will take the odd one if they can catch one in the open which is very rare.
I would say with confidence that any lynx that were scavenged by fisher were killed by other lynx at the low end of the hare cycle.


Boco he's not an idiot, and neither are you. Just different experiences in different places.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512269
04/07/19 02:24 PM
04/07/19 02:24 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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If he doesn't know that the main predator of lynx is other lynx then he is "uneducated" or has an agenda.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512271
04/07/19 02:27 PM
04/07/19 02:27 PM
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ebsurveyor Offline OP
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Fisher Predation on Canada Lynx in the
Northeastern United States
SCOTT R. MCLELLAN,1,2 Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA
JENNIFER H. VASHON, Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA
ERICA L. JOHNSON,3 Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA
SHANNON M. CROWLEY,4 Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA
ADAM D. VASHON,5 Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, 650 State Street, Bangor, ME 04401, USA

Hey Boco, bottom line. They trapped 187 lynx, equipped 85 with radio-collars, and investigated mortalities when they occurred. 65 of 85 died during the study. Tracks in the snow don't lie.

L6 F Adult N/A 24 Jan 2000 Partial (head absent) 5.9 Healthy
L8b F Kitten 0 yr 8 mo 24 Jan 2000 Whole 6.2 Healthy
L36 F Adult Not aged 10 Jan 2002 Whole 7.9 Not collected
L38 F Adult 4 yr 6 mo 20 Nov 2002 Partial (head and neck present) N/A
L44 F Adult 4 yr 9 mo 20 Feb 2007 Partial (4 legs present) Healthy to fair
L67 F Adult N/A 28 Jan 2006 Partial (head and legs absent) 5.0 Not collected
L93 F Adult 5 yr 8 mo 25 Jan 2009 Partial (head, neck, and 4 limbs
present)
Not collected
L96 M Adult N/A 3 Feb 2007 Partial (front half of body absent) 5.4 Healthy
L125 F Adult 4 yr 9 mo 13 Feb 2007 Partial (viscera and hindquarter
absent)
5.8 Healthy
L114 M Adult 5 yr 10 mo 10 Mar 2010 Partial (neck, head, hind quarters
present)
Fair
L137 F Adult N/A 3 Feb 2007 Partial (head absent) 5.3 Healthy
L140 M Adult N/A 5 Mar 2009 Partial (clumps of hide present) N/A
L156 M Adult N/A 7 Apr 2009 Partial (legs and viscera present) 5.2 Fair
L157 M Adult Not aged 15 Feb 2009 Partial (head, neck, and one leg
present)
Healthy
a Bone marrow was classified as healthy when white, solid, and waxy, malnourished (fair) when red and solid, and poor when red and gelatinous (Cheatum
1949).
b A kitten without a radio-collar was found cached at the same site as the partial carcass of its radiocollared mother, L6.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512284
04/07/19 03:04 PM
04/07/19 03:04 PM
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Line Jumper Offline
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Very interesting study results, I am surprised with the fisher preying on Lynx, in northern Wi, I have been blaming the abundance of bobcats on our dwindling fisher population. Because of competition for food not killing each other.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Line Jumper] #6512301
04/07/19 03:32 PM
04/07/19 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Line Jumper
Very interesting study results, I am surprised with the fisher preying on Lynx, in northern Wi, I have been blaming the abundance of bobcats on our dwindling fisher population. Because of competition for food not killing each other.




Kill more bobcats.

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512304
04/07/19 03:44 PM
04/07/19 03:44 PM
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With the small amount of remains left,they definitely didn't investigate the kills when they occurred.Several days later by the amount of scavenging done on the carcasses.A fisher will not scavenge half a carcass at one sitting,but a couple of lynx from a family group can.
Fisher do not prey on lynx.
Lynx prey on lynx when the hare cycle crashes.
Lynx also kill the odd fisher.

Last edited by Boco; 04/07/19 03:46 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: Boco] #6512305
04/07/19 03:44 PM
04/07/19 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Boco
If he doesn't know that the main predator of lynx is other lynx then he is "uneducated" or has an agenda.


Is it possible that the main predator of lynx in northern Maine is NOT other lynx?

Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512306
04/07/19 03:50 PM
04/07/19 03:50 PM
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No,cannibalism is a well known behavior in lynx and well recorded.All trappers know this also.
No trappers have ever reported fisher killing lynx that I am aware of.
Has a fisher ever killed a lynx?Yes most likely.

Last edited by Boco; 04/07/19 03:52 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Do fisher kill lynx? [Re: ebsurveyor] #6512315
04/07/19 04:05 PM
04/07/19 04:05 PM
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Maybe it makes a difference if you are on the southern range for lynx (northern Maine) or on the northern range of fisher (where boco is). Northern Maine has some lynx and LOTS of fisher. My guess is where Boco is they have lots of lynx and some fisher.

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