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Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6514335
04/09/19 11:47 PM
04/09/19 11:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 776
MN, USA
star flakes Offline
trapper
star flakes  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 776
MN, USA
Until wolves are removed from the "endangered" list nothing is going to be done to stop them in the lower 48. The current regs are no on can touch them. You must contact a game warden who contacts a federal officer to come investigate. As others have stated wolves have an immense range. They will move 20 to 50 miles a day. They are not hunting though, but patrolling their territory.
I contacted a national GOP leader in the Senate about this, and his response was about the red wolf in Arizona. The people in Congress have zero idea about any of this and the courts control the protection of these predators. The Dakotas have been experiencing an interesting phenomena, the past few years in an influx of coyotes, which are being pushed out of Colorado and Minnesota, by the increased number of wolves. This is a disaster as in my area, we have wolves moving through. I came across one a few years ago, and there was zero fear and no bluff in that animal. It was a big black and it just glared at me, as it kept moving toward a neighbor's winter pasture with cattle.

It was a costly problem to remove wolves from most of the United States. It took the best trappers this nation produced to take the last ones out, as poison would not work and they had seen all the ideas of trappers. It has been a disservice of the trapping and hunting groups who have not demanded an enforcement that all wolves not in Yellowstone or the Arrowhead have open season on them. Waiting around for a federal officer to try and get an animal 200 miles away is not going to solve this problem as wolf predation is costly to ranchers and dangerous to pets.

Wolves should never have been reintroduced, no more than mountain lions, which we have here out of South Dakota. For a historical perspective of this in John Borroughs, the father of Yosemite and Teddy Roosevelt, the father of Yellowstone, both advocated the removal of all large predators in the lower 48 in favor of what they defined as good animals which benefited outdoors people.

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6514339
04/09/19 11:52 PM
04/09/19 11:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,770
N.W. Iowa
T
Tactical.20 Offline
trapper
Tactical.20  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,770
N.W. Iowa
That's a big dog!

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6514357
04/10/19 12:59 AM
04/10/19 12:59 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,540
Champaign County, Ohio.
K
KeithC Offline
trapper
KeithC  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,540
Champaign County, Ohio.
The Kangal has the world's strongest bite force of any canine breed or species. The average wolf has a bite force of 400psi. The average Kangal has a bite force of 743psi.

https://petcomments.com/ten-dogs-which-have-the-strongest-bite/

Many people rate the Kangal as the world's strongest all around dog.

There are of videos of Kangal killing wolves, boar and bears and videos of Kangal attacking and driving off African lions, grizzly bears, brown bears, leopards, tigers and cheetahs. There are videos of Kangals killing multiple pitbulls like a terrier killing rats.

Some of the larger Kangals have 70 to 80 pounds more mass than the largest dire wolves ever did.

Kangals are not very aggressive though. They are very protective of animals and people in their charge.

I have 1 pure Kangal and 2 half Kangals.

Keith


Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Osky] #6514362
04/10/19 01:28 AM
04/10/19 01:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 165
Oregon
P
PWC Offline
trapper
PWC  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 165
Oregon
Originally Posted by Osky
Originally Posted by Tactical.20
Talked to a rancher in wy, they were loading sheep into semi , in the bighorns.
He said the year before when they brought their sheep to the mountain pastures a wolf killed 24 the first night, and it didn't return to eat more, or kill more
Same area the rancher I trapped for lost sheep to a wolf, the control guy caught a big female wolf there



Wolf was just working his way thru the flock trying to find the sick old one he was SUPPOSE to kill. Poor wolf got worn out, didn't wanna come back.

Osky


This guy has it figured out. LMAO

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6514689
04/10/19 12:29 PM
04/10/19 12:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 471
Wyoming
T
ttzt Offline
trapper
ttzt  Offline
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T

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 471
Wyoming
"The Dakotas have been experiencing an interesting phenomena, the past few years in an influx of coyotes, which are being pushed out of Colorado and Minnesota, by the increased number of wolves."

I would like to see some background information on the influx of coyotes from Colorado to the Dakotas. While there are wolves in Colorado, I do not think that the population is high enough to push coyotes out of that state. Also, if there are coyotes leaving Colorado I have to wonder why these coyotes think that the Dakotas are worth traveling across Wyoming or Nebraska to get to.

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: ttzt] #6514788
04/10/19 02:38 PM
04/10/19 02:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,655
ND
M
MJM Offline
trapper
MJM  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,655
ND
Originally Posted by ttzt
"The Dakotas have been experiencing an interesting phenomena, the past few years in an influx of coyotes, which are being pushed out of Colorado and Minnesota, by the increased number of wolves."

I would like to see some background information on the influx of coyotes from Colorado to the Dakotas. While there are wolves in Colorado, I do not think that the population is high enough to push coyotes out of that state. Also, if there are coyotes leaving Colorado I have to wonder why these coyotes think that the Dakotas are worth traveling across Wyoming or Nebraska to get to.

I am not sure where you heard that, but it is the first I ever heard it. I am not saying a coyote could not travel that far, but I sure don't think there is a mass migration going on. Minnesota is across the river so even mice make the trip at times.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6514801
04/10/19 02:47 PM
04/10/19 02:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,484
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline
trapper
west river rogue  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,484
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
My cousin raises guardian dogs for wolves in italy and ships pups around the world. They are very effective in the high mountain pastures in italy........http://www.abruzzese.org/fotomaschi.htm

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6515036
04/10/19 08:31 PM
04/10/19 08:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
B
Bob_Iowa Offline OP
trapper
Bob_Iowa  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
Keith that Kangal is one big dog, just wow.
Cedar hacker I’m suprised that the llamas is ranked above the donkey, I’ve read where they went aggressive enough, the donkeys though I’ve read can be overly aggressive with the sheep.
Charles from what I’ve read one donkey is all you want or they can bond with each other instead of the animals they’re supposed to be guarding.

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: ttzt] #6515040
04/10/19 08:39 PM
04/10/19 08:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,254
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,254
western mn
Originally Posted by ttzt
"The Dakotas have been experiencing an interesting phenomena, the past few years in an influx of coyotes, which are being pushed out of Colorado and Minnesota, by the increased number of wolves."

I would like to see some background information on the influx of coyotes from Colorado to the Dakotas. While there are wolves in Colorado, I do not think that the population is high enough to push coyotes out of that state. Also, if there are coyotes leaving Colorado I have to wonder why these coyotes think that the Dakotas are worth traveling across Wyoming or Nebraska to get to.

" I read it on the internet"
laugh I


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: KeithC] #6515043
04/10/19 08:42 PM
04/10/19 08:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 256
Montana
J
Jackdale Offline
trapper
Jackdale  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 256
Montana
Originally Posted by KeithC
People have successfully used dogs to protect sheep for tens of thousands of years. Not all dogs are made for killing wolves and you have to have enough dogs to cover the wolves. Male Kangals in Turkey and the Caucasus were not bred unless they killed two wolves in a pit fight. Two male Kangals were expected to kill 6 wolves in a pit fight. Wolves don't want to die to get a meal. If a fight for food looks even remotely close, they will usually flee. People very obviously would not have kept the livestock guardian dogs if they did not work effectively against wolves.

I suspect a pack of 6 or 8 Kangals would drive off any pack of wolves in North America and kill any wolves that did not get away quickly.

[Linked Image]
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[Linked Image]
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[Linked Image]


Keith

Ridiculous. ...

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6515047
04/10/19 08:46 PM
04/10/19 08:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 256
Montana
J
Jackdale Offline
trapper
Jackdale  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 256
Montana
They had kangals on a sheep place here. They acted tough around people and other dogs but griz and wolves still got sheep. Guard dogs are a good tool to help but they don't stop everything let alone kill any predators. I think lgd's play on people's imaginations more than anything.

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Jackdale] #6515055
04/10/19 08:58 PM
04/10/19 08:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073
montana
R
red mt Offline
trapper
red mt  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,073
montana
Originally Posted by Jackdale
They had kangals on a sheep place here. They acted tough around people and other dogs but griz and wolves still got sheep. Guard dogs are a good tool to help but they don't stop everything let alone kill any predators. I think lgd's play on people's imaginations more than anything.

Agreed,,,


Kenneth schoening
Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Jackdale] #6515106
04/10/19 09:46 PM
04/10/19 09:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,063
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,063
Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by Jackdale
They had kangals on a sheep place here. They acted tough around people and other dogs but griz and wolves still got sheep. Guard dogs are a good tool to help but they don't stop everything let alone kill any predators. I think lgd's play on people's imaginations more than anything.

X3

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Yes sir] #6515153
04/10/19 10:21 PM
04/10/19 10:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,140
Texas Hill Country
C
Cedar Hacker Offline
trapper
Cedar Hacker  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,140
Texas Hill Country
Originally Posted by Yes sir
Originally Posted by Jackdale
They had kangals on a sheep place here. They acted tough around people and other dogs but griz and wolves still got sheep. Guard dogs are a good tool to help but they don't stop everything let alone kill any predators. I think lgd's play on people's imaginations more than anything.

X3


Well that is 3 to 1. Guard dogs don't stop everything but they do kill predators. They kill wild pigs, especially the young, and coyotes from pups to grown ones.
Common practice here for large ranches to run a male and a female in the same pasture. Main breeds used are Pyrenese, Anatollian, and Akbash or even crosses.
It is not imagination when kid goat losses drop from 300 per season to 40 after the introduction of lgd's. That's a net gain of about $52,000 per season. Often that can be the difference of staying in business.
Using dogs requires some time and effort(work). One cannot just go out and buy some dogs and turn them loose and expect it to work like many people do.
The biggest problem with the dogs here is them getting into porcupines and rattlesnakes.

People can say and believe what they want about the dogs but they do work. A net of approximately $156,000 in two years is enough proof for me.


Sit on your horse on top of a ridge, look out across the country and tell me there is no God.

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6515172
04/10/19 10:45 PM
04/10/19 10:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 293
MT
B
bbasher Offline
trapper
bbasher  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 293
MT
How many wolves and griz are in the Texas hill country again? There is no argument that guard dogs help keep coyotes from sheep but the thought that a dog is going to solve every predator from killing is wrong. Also in response to previous posts donkeys just eat grass, they don't care if a sheep gets killed. Donkeys don't like dogs but they won't go out of their way to kill a coyote

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6515190
04/10/19 11:10 PM
04/10/19 11:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,063
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,063
Marion Kansas
We had to shot a dog last year that was chasing the neighbors donkey around the pasture and couldn't catch it or call it off. Not all donkeys will chase a dog. It goes the other way sometimes.

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: bucksnbears] #6515191
04/10/19 11:12 PM
04/10/19 11:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 471
Wyoming
T
ttzt Offline
trapper
ttzt  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 471
Wyoming
Originally Posted by bucksnbears
Originally Posted by ttzt
"The Dakotas have been experiencing an interesting phenomena, the past few years in an influx of coyotes, which are being pushed out of Colorado and Minnesota, by the increased number of wolves."

I would like to see some background information on the influx of coyotes from Colorado to the Dakotas. While there are wolves in Colorado, I do not think that the population is high enough to push coyotes out of that state. Also, if there are coyotes leaving Colorado I have to wonder why these coyotes think that the Dakotas are worth traveling across Wyoming or Nebraska to get to.

" I read it on the internet"
laugh I


Well heck, if I had know that was where the information came from I would not have even questioned it! grin

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6515494
04/11/19 11:21 AM
04/11/19 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 634
ID
O
Ole Offline
trapper
Ole  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 634
ID
Pyrenees and Akbash are used extensively in the West on mountain grazed sheep with great success to deter wolf, bear and coyote predation. However, deter does not mean prevent. There still is some predation on occasion. If wolves outnumber dogs, the dogs stand little chance. These large guard dogs will probably never catdh and kill a wolf. If the dog(s) venture too far from the flock in their pursuit of wolves they sometimes encounter other wolves that turn the tables real quick.

Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6515593
04/11/19 01:16 PM
04/11/19 01:16 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,707
The great cage state Colorado
M
Monster Toms Online content
trapper
Monster Toms  Online Content
trapper
M

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,707
The great cage state Colorado
Good thing about Llama's and donkeys, they wont kill your sheep when they get bored or hungry.






Re: Wolves and sheep [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6515604
04/11/19 01:36 PM
04/11/19 01:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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B

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Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
Wolves can and do cover a lot of ground in a short time.
I followed a fresh wolftrack on the railroad one winter,and that lone wolf travelled the tracks over 70 miles overnight.Straight line never left the right of way once.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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