Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: nramemb]
#6513745
04/09/19 11:38 AM
04/09/19 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,172 B61-12 vicinity, MO
TreedaBlackdog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,172
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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I am doing the hippie thing of no treating as stated to not do above. But, really I am treating just not with chemicals......I brood break, select for resistance etc. Listen to 10 bee keepers and you will get 20 answers. Read, learn, and apply, re-apply, diagnose and improve.
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: nramemb]
#6513754
04/09/19 12:09 PM
04/09/19 12:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154 Tug Hill, NY
Redknot
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
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NRA, there is a lot of money in bee keeping - you might as well put some of yours in too!! All kidding aside it's very rewarding to work with your bees...
~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: nramemb]
#6513761
04/09/19 12:27 PM
04/09/19 12:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 19 Harrisburg / Wheelerville, PA
Dustyroads
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 19
Harrisburg / Wheelerville, PA
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I've been keeping bees for about 5 years now, finally overwintered my first hive. Last year I got my 4th package & was given a swarm from a friend. The package made it, the swarm did not. I learned much more last year than I did the prior 3 by comparing each hive to one another, that and I also leaned on the couple I got my swarm from for some advice and ideas I had. As someone else said, ask 20 people and you'll get 20 opinions. Heck, they might all work but you gotta pick one and go, not ponder which one for 3 weeks and miss the boat, i quit doing that. I get some sound advice from reputable sources & bounce those ideas off one person. If I had any advice it would be this - It's expensive, order enough equipment ahead of time so that you can add boxes and frames as the colony grows, anticipating growth ahead of time is much better than realizing it too late and ordering equipment. Same goes for mites, buy formic acid with your initial package. Formic, Apivar & Oxylic acid seem to be the big three. 2 being organic & the apivar synthetic (Correct me if i'm wrong) combine to lower the risk of resistance. I've tried some of the hippy methods, they didn't work & i'm not interested in losing bees and spending $120 bucks a package. I was lazy with my mite checks in years past but it's become evident that they're likely the number one reason I was losing hives. I was dillengent about checking mites with a sugar rolls (Alcohol wash is more accurate) and I treated when necessary. So, let me summarize. 1. Buy a book and read reputable online resources. I highly recommend http://scientificbeekeeping.com/ Randy Oliver does his research correctly & thoroughly. He's been in business for decades for a reason. 2. Join your local club & admit you know nothing & get a mentor. clubs also often have a loaner extractor, bottling bucket & other essential tools for extraction. 3. Order what you need for 1 or two hives ahead of time. Don't get sucked into the novelty garbage. Veil, hive tool, smoker & I like those grippers to pull frames out of the hive. That's what I used 95% of the time. Kitchen dish gloves work fine if you want to protect your hands 4. Get in there every week and check things out. You cant be in it for honey the first year, you need to learn. If you do not learn, no honey for you next year. I'll reiterate that the club to folks helped me considerably. hearing what works and didn't work from back yard keepers like me & what worked and didn't work for commercial folks. This year I plan to be more active in the club as well and participate in the club hive inspections every other week or so. I want to learn, experience is the best teacher. Oh, by the way, it is WAY cheaper than trapping. Every coon I kill costs me 25 bucks to tan. Every pound of honey I collect PAYS me 8 bucks. I don't need a truck to drive from one end of my property to the other to do a "Hive Check" Daily either. I already know they're there
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: nramemb]
#6513814
04/09/19 01:35 PM
04/09/19 01:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,965 South metro, MN
Calvin
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,965
South metro, MN
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A lot of "naturalists" hobby bee keepers are really just Mite Farmers, but they don't know it. If their bees are within flying distance to your bees, it becomes more real (and angering). IF you're going to be a mite farmer, don't start. You are just causing problems for your neighbor bee keeper. Every University that has a bee lab says to TREAT your bees. With how "natural" most Universities are, I think this says something. Our local University bee lab recommends 3 times per year.
I do know a guy who brood breaks and says he does well, however. Not sure how "well" is, though.
I've found a good percentage of the Local bee keeping assoc's fall under these Naturalists. Take what they say with a grain of salt.
YouTube has thousands of hours of great info....many from commercial bee keepers who have to do things right. Not that some of the hobbyists don't have it figured out, too, but there seems to be a difference in thoughts at times between the two. Kind of like trappers I guess.
I think the 20 bee keepers/20 different opinions has gone by the wayside a bit. I "think" this craft has become more unified over the years. You just can't screw up as much as you could in the past. Mainly in regards to parasites and disease control. The big shots and universities are finally starting to call people out onto the carpet it seems.
Best investment I made was to buy a new TV with a Roku box so I could watch YouTube bee vids on my couch. I"ve watched hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of bee keeping vids over the years. It beats regular TV and per time invested you get much more info per minute than a book or an assoc meeting.
That said, it's addicting....and a real nice/relaxing hobby for those of us who are aging past the fast cars, fast life age.
Last edited by Calvin; 04/09/19 01:44 PM.
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: nramemb]
#6513934
04/09/19 04:15 PM
04/09/19 04:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,172 B61-12 vicinity, MO
TreedaBlackdog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,172
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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yes, the natural wild bees are mite farmers and they too just don't know it...........so don't forget to treat them.........oh, I guess you don't need to if you have your own airspace for your bees and make sure they don't allow any feral bees in your hives ever - so you best paint them all pink too On the serious side - I have had good results with Mn Hygienic Queens. They seem to do what I want.
Last edited by TreedaBlackdog; 04/09/19 04:16 PM.
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: TreedaBlackdog]
#6514054
04/09/19 07:18 PM
04/09/19 07:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650 Southeast Ohio
amspoker
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
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I am doing the hippie thing of no treating as stated to not do above. But, really I am treating just not with chemicals......I brood break, select for resistance etc. Listen to 10 bee keepers and you will get 20 answers. Read, learn, and apply, re-apply, diagnose and improve. Guess I'm a hippie too. Only kept bees for three years now. But my " mentor " has been keeping bees since the 70's. So all this required mite treatment is news to me based on how he has taught me. I'm on a facebook group and they say the same thing about needing to treat mites. Not saying y'all are wrong. Maybe there are different ways of doing things depending on what you are trying to do long term.
Last edited by amspoker; 04/09/19 11:48 PM.
Levi
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: nramemb]
#6514202
04/09/19 09:22 PM
04/09/19 09:22 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,181 Golconda, IL
nramemb
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,181
Golconda, IL
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Im glad this bee keeping thing is not like trapping . everyone agrees on everything. lol.
maybe just keep buying my honey and go by one of the local guys with bees and get stung 7 or 8 times a year and all will be good. LOL
Last edited by nramemb; 04/09/19 09:23 PM.
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: Calvin]
#6514366
04/10/19 01:44 AM
04/10/19 01:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 330 MO
Timber Hole
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 330
MO
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I now use two different types of Oxalic acid in my mix of treatments. This one is inexpensive and worked well for me last year. And you can buzz through a bunch of hives in no time. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...02672185E9698E8D43BC026721&FORM=VIREI also use Apivar in the spring (before a honey flow) and Formic pro when things warm up. Then Oxalic late fall before wintering. Not always necessary but many universities are now recommending 3 separate treatments per year. Tell me more about spring treatment. I just installed 3 packages about 1 1/2 weeks ago. Things are starting to bloom here so I assumed flow was starting and a spring treatment wasn’t a good idea.
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: nramemb]
#6514395
04/10/19 06:39 AM
04/10/19 06:39 AM
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 405 Michigan
BullOx
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 405
Michigan
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If you're in a very cold area, GET RUSSIANS. I'm in MI and I can't keep Italian alive to save my life, my Russians were my only survivors this year. They are super aggressive though. They're also resistant to mites but I treat anyways.
Trapping is easy you say? You try getting your target animal to step in a 3 inch area of its whole territory.
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: BullOx]
#6514567
04/10/19 10:07 AM
04/10/19 10:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 715 Michigan
BigBlackBirds
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 715
Michigan
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If you're in a very cold area, GET RUSSIANS. I'm in MI and I can't keep Italian alive to save my life, my Russians were my only survivors this year. They are super aggressive though. They're also resistant to mites but I treat anyways. Hey BullOx----also seems to me that italian style bees struggle here in this day and age. one of the upsides to them is that they can be a good starting point for a new beekeeper as they do tend to be a little friendlier than some bees (like your russians). and before the arrival of tracheal and varroa they were actually pretty common in these parts. however often times they arent as inclined to have some of the characteristics we might consider more common in northern style bees like heavy propolis & burr comb or quietness on comb during winter. probably where they struggle most is that they do a poor job of regulating to the weather---they lay later into the year when others have long shutdown which in theory gives them winter bees but it also puts them into winter with giant hungry clusters and a varroa population that keeps expanding compared to others. sometimes you can help the cause by leaving them lots of winter stores and that will get them to the next year but they normally are laying well before others by late winter early spring. if the weather works in their favor in the spring they will be fine BUT if not they brood up, run out of everything stored, dont bother to shutdown when nothing is coming in and croak in spring. also keep in mind that unless you are buying new queens to replace everything each spring eventually you get a mix of genes with some traits showing up more than others from swarming, supercedure, etc. a bee like the old minnesota hygienic has plenty of italian style traits but still did good up here. where did you get your russians? i used some a long long time ago when they were first released. the first generation daughters didnt combine nicely with my bees at that time so i got away from them but i did like some of their traits that seemed to eventually get passed along by their drones.
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: Timber Hole]
#6514608
04/10/19 10:52 AM
04/10/19 10:52 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,965 South metro, MN
Calvin
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,965
South metro, MN
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I now use two different types of Oxalic acid in my mix of treatments. This one is inexpensive and worked well for me last year. And you can buzz through a bunch of hives in no time. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...02672185E9698E8D43BC026721&FORM=VIREI also use Apivar in the spring (before a honey flow) and Formic pro when things warm up. Then Oxalic late fall before wintering. Not always necessary but many universities are now recommending 3 separate treatments per year. Tell me more about spring treatment. I just installed 3 packages about 1 1/2 weeks ago. Things are starting to bloom here so I assumed flow was starting and a spring treatment wasn’t a good idea. I personally either use the above Oxalic acid vaporized or Apivar strips in the spring. Apivar strips come in a 10 pak and once opened they are activated....so if you can't use all 10 strips, you are wasting money I guess. Apivar stays in the hive for a minimum of 42 days....56 days max. Not to be used when supers are on for honey consumption (bee consumption is fine) Take strips out a week or two before adding human consumption honey supers. One strip for up to 5 frames of bees....so with a package you'll only need one strip per package.
Last edited by Calvin; 04/10/19 10:55 AM.
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Re: Bee Keeping
[Re: BullOx]
#6514615
04/10/19 11:01 AM
04/10/19 11:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,965 South metro, MN
Calvin
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,965
South metro, MN
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If you're in a very cold area, GET RUSSIANS. I'm in MI and I can't keep Italian alive to save my life, my Russians were my only survivors this year. They are super aggressive though. They're also resistant to mites but I treat anyways. Maybe try the Saskatraz's. I'm having good luck with them...and they don't chase you down the street. But like anything, Once a northern bee...the will be raised in Calif now....and how hardy is anything out of calif? I/m done buying junk Calif bees. I've found my best luck to do a walk away split with my best overwintered northern hives. In the right conditions, they make really nice queens all on their own. Some of my best queens came through walk away over wintered splits. Easy, cheap and about 75% effective per split/Queen on the first attempt.
Last edited by Calvin; 04/10/19 11:02 AM.
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