No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525668
04/26/19 01:48 AM
04/26/19 01:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
Nebraska
WadeRyan Offline
trapper
WadeRyan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
Nebraska
Correct Amspoker there is a 1 in 300,000 chance of being struck by lighting and there is a 1 in a million chance of having a life debilitating reaction to a vaccine (including death). Sure there's a number of side effects from vaccines that aren't enjoyable but they don't leave you maimed for life. The point of that analogy isn't that I let my children play in lightning it is that the chances of a vaccine affecting a person's health to the point it is debilitating has a much better benefit/risk ratio when compared with an anti-vaccine parent that exposes their children to those diseases.

Vaccines also are not 100% efficient. I had chicken pox twice as a child even though your body is supposed to naturally build up an immunity after one exposure. It doesn't always work that way. Unvaccinated people do spread diseases after they come into contact with someone that has the disease and contract the disease there's a great chance of that happening. So to a certain extent your theory of unvaccinated people not spreading disease is false. There's not as much of a chance of contracting the disease if you've been vaccinated. Lets face it people of the United States don't live in a bubble and we can't all home school our children.

I'd be willing to bet money that if vaccines for MMR were mandated across the board in the United States we would still not have a single case of the measles in a United States citizen since 2000. If you think you can disprove that theory with solid factual statistics I am all ears. Unfortunately, it will take a generation of children that end up afflicted with the disease to prove to the anti-vaccine crowd that their decisions for their children were foolish. I sleep well at night knowing my children are up to date on every vaccination they can get and I won't have to worry about their livelihood when it reaches our town. If you don't think it will end up in your town at some point you're mistaken.


Follow me on YouTube if you’re bored

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Ulx1woYMmCN3IPLB0wwFw


Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525671
04/26/19 02:09 AM
04/26/19 02:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
amspoker Offline
trapper
amspoker  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
Thanks for the reply.


Like I said, it's not something I take lightly.


Levi
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525690
04/26/19 06:43 AM
04/26/19 06:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
L
loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
Everybody, and I mean everybody, should be fully vaccinated. That being said, the government forcing you to inject yourself or your kids with something against your will is just tyrannical, and an unacceptable level of authoritarianism. The way to achieve higher vaccine rates is through education, not force.

Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525703
04/26/19 07:22 AM
04/26/19 07:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
P
Pike River Offline
trapper
Pike River  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
The possibility of pandemics is the primary reason there should be controlled borders. I would even argue limiting state to state infrastructure.

If there's ever a outbreak in the upper Midwest and they try to quantine an area it will be a failure.

Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525713
04/26/19 07:48 AM
04/26/19 07:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,516
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
trapper
Macthediver  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,516
La Crosse, WI
I just heard on the national news, which I don't know if that is fake news or not? That the patient 1 they figure brought measles to what ever collage it is that is shut down right now. Was a vaccinated man that just came back I think they said from China.. So the vaccine be what it is was not 100% and the 4-5 people he infected weren't vaccinated at all..But that is just what I heard..
Most us trappers wear gloves now when skinning. I personally went years ago got rabies vaccinated after talking to county infectious disease doc. My son had gotten cat scratch fever which is real and not just a song. So we had to meet the man and had a nice chat.. He turned out to be very interested my trapping having done some him self..
Anyway .. I really don't think every thing in this world is based off some conspiracy.

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525722
04/26/19 07:58 AM
04/26/19 07:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
I had measles when I was a kid. chicken pox and mumps too. so did every body else my age. its not that big a deal.

im not against vaccines don't misunderstand. but those 3 things are not usually that bad. don't get so wound up.


there are diseases that are bad coming across the border.

end welfare for everybody. at least then we will get people with a good work ethic. something our country can use more of. make it easier for them to come legally. might make it easier to keep out criminals, bums and diseases.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: WadeRyan] #6525727
04/26/19 08:05 AM
04/26/19 08:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,706
Ohio
Ronaround Offline
trapper
Ronaround  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,706
Ohio
Originally Posted by WadeRyan
Originally Posted by Law Dog
So if we had it eliminated and it's here again just where could it of come from then? LOL Seriously is it rocket science folks.


People travel all over the world Jerry. We have a number of people here for college, visiting, and yes illegal. I'm not a proponent of open borders but to say that illegal immigration is the biggest cause of the resurgence of the disease in the United States I would say is false. The measles are rampant in third world countries it's only appearing here again because children aren't getting vaccinated. The key to your statement "so if WE had it eliminated," yes the United States had it all but eliminated but it's just been sitting in those third world countries waiting to expose itself again. It's never truly been eradicated. There's some third world countries where people trying to give children the polio vaccine are being killed because villagers have been told it's a vaccine to sterilize the children.....You've got to think outside of South Dakota.


So if the legal immigrants are getting tested and shots, then why the H&ll are we allowing the 3rd. world illegal folks to just waltz in untested??

Maybe the naysayers should go down and stay a 6 month stint and see if you get any nasty viruses and diseases with there lifestyles and sanitation?
JMO

Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: danny clifton] #6525738
04/26/19 08:15 AM
04/26/19 08:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,516
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
trapper
Macthediver  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,516
La Crosse, WI
Originally Posted by danny clifton
I had measles when I was a kid. chicken pox and mumps too. so did every body else my age. its not that big a deal.

im not against vaccines don't misunderstand. but those 3 things are not usually that bad. don't get so wound up.


there are diseases that are bad coming across the border.

end welfare for everybody. at least then we will get people with a good work ethic. something our country can use more of. make it easier for them to come legally. might make it easier to keep out criminals, bums and diseases.


Other than stopping welfare for all I don't know how you could screen any one for work ethic?? Be interesting, also be a lot of people already here needing to go for lack of work ethic and they were born here..
Anyone coming from a third world country could be carrying any number of diseases. Hepatitis is one people have kind of forgotten about and wasn't there the big Ebola thing not that far back.

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525788
04/26/19 09:31 AM
04/26/19 09:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Anyone willing to put their kids or grandkids in a daycare with unscreened illegals raise their hands! LOL Unscreened is unscreened like said before the biggest fear for some is clearing the TB tests so why is that because it's a problem. I'm not against legal immigration never have been because it had safeguards in place to protect us from issues like those mentioned.

The ones thinking they should just come however they want and bring in whatever they want or refuse to give their kids shots won't be willing to pick up the check when that time comes around to combat it. What cost millions to rid us of this before will now cost us billions or more. If you believe people with little to no real health care are not going to bring in health issues that's nuts.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: WadeRyan] #6525866
04/26/19 12:03 PM
04/26/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059
Ky
Originally Posted by WadeRyan
Originally Posted by Law Dog
So if we had it eliminated and it's here again just where could it of come from then? LOL Seriously is it rocket science folks.


People travel all over the world Jerry. We have a number of people here for college, visiting, and yes illegal. I'm not a proponent of open borders but to say that illegal immigration is the biggest cause of the resurgence of the disease in the United States I would say is false. The measles are rampant in third world countries it's only appearing here again because children aren't getting vaccinated. The key to your statement "so if WE had it eliminated," yes the United States had it all but eliminated but it's just been sitting in those third world countries waiting to expose itself again. It's never truly been eradicated. There's some third world countries where people trying to give children the polio vaccine are being killed because villagers have been told it's a vaccine to sterilize the children.....You've got to think outside of South Dakota.


Is mexico a third world country ? Or just a

Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: loosegoose] #6525873
04/26/19 12:10 PM
04/26/19 12:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059
Ky
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Everybody, and I mean everybody, should be fully vaccinated. That being said, the government forcing you to inject yourself or your kids with something against your will is just tyrannical, and an unacceptable level of authoritarianism. The way to achieve higher vaccine rates is through education, not force.


SO getting a drivers license as being forced by the Government is being tyrannical.....LOL

Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525876
04/26/19 12:15 PM
04/26/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,024
ND
grumley701 Offline
trapper
grumley701  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,024
ND
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Everybody, and I mean everybody, should be fully vaccinated. That being said, the government forcing you to inject yourself or your kids with something against your will is just tyrannical, and an unacceptable level of authoritarianism. The way to achieve higher vaccine rates is through education, not force.


SO getting a drivers license as being forced by the Government is being tyrannical.....LOL


You are not forced to get a driver license... bad analogy.


Pure Blood
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525881
04/26/19 12:29 PM
04/26/19 12:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
L
loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Everybody, and I mean everybody, should be fully vaccinated. That being said, the government forcing you to inject yourself or your kids with something against your will is just tyrannical, and an unacceptable level of authoritarianism. The way to achieve higher vaccine rates is through education, not force.


SO getting a drivers license as being forced by the Government is being tyrannical.....LOL


There's a huge difference between forcing someone to inject chemicals into themselves or their children and a being required to get a piece of plastic. If you can't see the difference there, I 'm not sure what to say.


Last edited by loosegoose; 04/26/19 12:29 PM.
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6525894
04/26/19 01:02 PM
04/26/19 01:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
The same people that refuse the vaccinations will demand the best medical care to combat what they allowed to happen to themselves for their bad choices and then complain about the costs! LOL Some won't pay a dime to fix the issues they created but you and I will pay in the end.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6526198
04/26/19 10:33 PM
04/26/19 10:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 61
MarsHill,NC
V
Vincenator Offline
trapper
Vincenator  Offline
trapper
V

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 61
MarsHill,NC
There have only been 9 reported cases of measles in Mexico since 2012. This month, there has been 181 reported cases in United States, many of which in the northern states and coincidentally in states that have higher participation in the anti-vax movement. However, I don't think the source is too reliable, it's only information from the World Health Organization. Must be fake news.
https://www.who.int/immunization/mo...ance_type/active/measles_monthlydata/en/


Every day is good,some are just better!
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6526228
04/26/19 11:14 PM
04/26/19 11:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
amspoker Offline
trapper
amspoker  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
Originally Posted by WadeRyan


So to a certain extent your theory of unvaccinated people not spreading disease is false. There's not as much of a chance of contracting the disease if you've been vaccinated.



I'd like to revisit this.


Who can you get measles from? Unvaccinated people, or people who have measles?


Quote
Lets face it people of the United States don't live in a bubble and we can't all home school our children.

Actually you could. But that would be inconvenient for many.

We could not go places when we are sick. And not send out kids to daycare or school when they are sick.

But that would be inconvenient too I suppose.



Levi
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6526230
04/26/19 11:14 PM
04/26/19 11:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,787
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
trapper
charles  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,787
Asheville, NC
They also bring in their relatives.

Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: Vincenator] #6526523
04/27/19 10:29 AM
04/27/19 10:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
Nebraska
WadeRyan Offline
trapper
WadeRyan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
Nebraska
Originally Posted by Vincenator
There have only been 9 reported cases of measles in Mexico since 2012. This month, there has been 181 reported cases in United States, many of which in the northern states and coincidentally in states that have higher participation in the anti-vax movement. However, I don't think the source is too reliable, it's only information from the World Health Organization. Must be fake news.
https://www.who.int/immunization/mo...ance_type/active/measles_monthlydata/en/


Come on now who would believe the WHO? I always find it somewhat interesting that people say the CDC is just a government program pushing big pharma. It's like come on these people literally do nothing but study the diseases no one wants to have for their career and follow sound science. It just baffles me.

Amspoker you can revisit it all you want. You won't get measles from someone that isn't vaccinated until they themselves contract the illness. I get what you are saying and it does make sense. I'll challenge you like I have most people would you feel safe if your children didn't have the vaccine would you go visit one of these locations in the United States where it has been breaking out? I realize they sure won't spread measles to anyone while they are there, but if they aren't vaccinated I bet they come home with it.

Unfortunately, for me I chose a career where I don't get to just stay home when I'm not feeling well and I'm also exposed to sick people on a daily basis. I guess when you're around it enough it makes you realize how easy it is for simple ailments to really wipe people out. There's a reason the life expectancy has improved over the last century. I watched a mother just this year watch her 12 year old child die of Influenza (boy did I probably just open a can of worms). She stood fast by her decision as we worked to save his life as she'd felt ill after she received the vaccine some years ago. Ironically in his obituary she pleaded with parents to get their children vaccinated.

I'd rather have my kids out in the world exposed to things, play in the dirt, and just be kids. I can't imagine how boring my life would have been locked away from society. It only takes one wrong exposure to really impact a life. History seems to repeat itself and people forget too soon. Any further questions just look back to the French and Indian War.


Follow me on YouTube if you’re bored

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Ulx1woYMmCN3IPLB0wwFw


Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6526595
04/27/19 12:06 PM
04/27/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
amspoker Offline
trapper
amspoker  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
I didn't say lock your kids away. I said keep them home when they're sick. I work, my wife is a stay at home mom. My kids love full lives, I assure you.

I get what you are saying too. I live a really simple life that would be unrealistic for many. And no, I won't go to areas with sick people. My wife won t go to WalMart during flu season during busy hours. Because people bring their sicknesses out to the public. I think we shouldn't let people come here from Ebola infected countries without getting a look over by a doctor first. As we are a globally connected world I think we need to be more careful about that sort of thing.

No matter where you stand on the issue, it's contradictory that the dems want open borders and mandatory vaccines.

I guess that is what we get from people who think abortions are OK and Bruce Jenner is their champion.



Last edited by amspoker; 04/27/19 12:33 PM.

Levi
Re: Illegals and Measles [Re: jbyrd63] #6526681
04/27/19 03:07 PM
04/27/19 03:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
Nebraska
WadeRyan Offline
trapper
WadeRyan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
Nebraska
It’s not so much what you do as it is what others won’t do. I remember a day I had 14 positive influenza patients in one 12 hour shift. I was quite irritated they’d all drug it in because they simply couldn’t stay at home and take Tylenol and drink water. Although it can be detrimental in the young and elderly the majority would be just fine. Society today wants a quick fix with no suffering and it’s a spill over effect. I’ve found that the anti-vax crowd tends to be well off Democrat’s. I can’t imagine them pushing a vaccine mandate.


Follow me on YouTube if you’re bored

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Ulx1woYMmCN3IPLB0wwFw


Page 2 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread