........and why do our otter and bobcats need a cities tag then?convention on the international trade of endangered species act ..ring any bells for you james? same thing will happen with firearms that are made here!

Now, there's a good job at refuting my argument. Some others here should pay attention.

I'll get back to you, cmcf. Have to think about your argument, maybe research it when I have more time.

Jim

Not sure I understand your point. There is no Constitutional right to trap, so a treaty duly approved by the Senate does apply.

States can and have banned trapping.

Jim

same thing will happen with American made guns

Why are the facts in this not being presented, and I am not asking a question, but posting these points which need to be considered.

Why did it take the President two and a half years to announce this, as this was an Obama treaty, and the fact is that Republican Mitch McConnell is the one who deserves credit for not moving this forward to a vote.
So of course what the President did was political for 2020.

I hope that people here remember that this President promised a national carry law, and he has not fulfilled that promise. Instead this UN treaty which was going nowhere is thrown out to gain support.

For those who are not aware, this President banned an entire genre of Russian made firearms for importation under Sec. of Treasury Steve Mnuchin, which was built on the Obama ban of Saiga civilian firearms.
As a reminder, this President banned bump stocks.

For the disclaimer, I am not criticizing the President on withdrawing the US from the UN treaty. I am making the point that he took over 2 years to do it, and only threw this bone to gun owners, to distract them from his failure at national carry.

Until the focus is placed on what gun owners elected this President for, in national carry, to end American gun buyers being punished for what Russia did or did not do, they have not gotten a thing.

Most of the guns "manufactured" in the United States are from Belgian or foreign ownership, and the firearms are made in Turkey. To make America Great Again, should not it be a policy of our government, as it was when John Olin and DuPont were managing things, that our gun corporations are 100% American owned, and manufactured inside the United States, for jobs and affordable guns. With modern technology there is not any reason that the United States can not make quality affordable firearms here.

As the NRA is involved in a lawsuit for what is criminal graft and money laundering, American gun owners are not getting what they donated to or voted for. The excuse that the President is not a democrat is accepting being manipulated. Democrats and liberals can always ram things through, sign executive orders, but when it comes to people on the right we are always told to wait till the next election.

All I want is what was promised in 2016 and before. All I want is the government assistance to promote American firearms and ownership, which has been a basis of America since her founding. Is it so much to expect the same rights that George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan had when growing up?

This gun-owner voted for this President primarily for the federal judges he would nominate, most importantly the two (and quite possibly three) SCOTUS justices but also the scores of judges nominated/appointed to US courts of appeal and circuit courts.

To say gun-owners have not gotten a thing from this President is false. I'm as disappointed as the next guy about some of the things you mention but the appointment of all those conservative federal judges is huge.

UUUGE!

Bigger than UUUGE!

Chris

Cmcf, I said I'd get back to you.

After half an hour of Googling, I still couldn't find the actual treaty. So I gave up the search. I'm still sure that a foreign treaty is subordinate to our Constitution, including the Second Amendment.

But the Second Amendment doesn't say that we have a right to buy imported guns, or to export our domestic guns. At least I don't know of any legal case that says so. So it appears you have a plausible argument, have pointed out a genuine risk.

I don't think an administration and Congress that respect the Second Amendment would allow the treaty to be used that way. But there is a real risk we could have an administration after 2020 that is hostile to the Second Amendment.

I reserve the right to change my opinion if new information comes to light, but for now I concede the battlefield. Good argument, sir.

Jim

A technical point that doesn't affect my post above:

Trump didn't withdraw the US from the treaty. What he did was withdraw the treaty from Senate consideration.

Obama had submitted the treaty for Senate approval, but the Republican-led Senate refused to act on it.

Jim

It's the same end around of our rights Clinton used to ban semi' s in the nineties, didn't ban the gun, just the manufacture and import.

No I don't get it! Then why have the treaty?

It's power depends on who we have in office that would or would not apply it to us in such a way that would infringe upon our rights.

Trump isn't postering! That what all the other RINOS are and have been doing for the last 16 years!

Trump skinned them Smoke wagons and is taking the fight to our communist Democratic party and RINO traitors!

That's what we voted for! Someone who would not "posture"! But put it all on the line and go to war for America!

MAGA!

Lol

Trump is dismantling the communist global agenda piece by piece!

That's what's got ya worked up!

I agree about the judges issue. On the other hand I believe the groundwork for disaster has been put in place. Justice Thomas has said he will not retire during this term of Trump's presidency. I think that is a big mistake. Just like Kennedy not retiring while Obama was in office. That worked out well for us.

The senate electoral math is against Republicans in 2020. If the Dems take the senate, and/or the presidency........our slim control on the court will be gone forever. If Thomas passes or retires even after the end of 2019, we and the 2nd A are in trouble. Whoever Trump might nominate at that point will get the Merrick Garland argument from the Dems. I wouldn't trust The Turtle to stand up to them.

As far as Star Flakes angst about the president not passing a law.............Why not blame Ryan & McConnell ? That's the way it works.

Frankly I am glad there is no national carry law. IMO that is a horrible idea.

I have no reasonable, factual argument why you might be wrong White, but I'm sincerely hoping you are.

I'm betting on Trump winning a second term and Ms. Ginsburg being unable to continue. I'm also betting on Trump continuing to place conservative federal judges.

The senate, I don't know?

Why do you oppose national carry?

SCOTUS rulings that prohibit 2nd amendment infringements by states is better than any national ccl law.

Ginsburg should be coming back from Moyle's any day now.

Justice Thomas will be 71 in June so good Lord willin, he's got a lot of time left. I think he's banking on Trump winning in 2020 and Ginsburg not being able to stay on. That would then give Trump two more Justice picks. I to oppose National carry but only because it should be Constitutional carry for all of the US. But if done right National carry would be an upgrade to all the different State laws that are confusing.

With national carry...it only takes one act of a democrat congress or E/O to end it completely. With each state in control of its own laws, we have at least 50 chances theoretically, to prevail

Interesting point. I am hoping though, the New York State Rifle and Pistol Assoc v New York ruling, will make that point mute. I'm not asking for much.