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Power of attorney and selling land ??? #6536361
05/12/19 02:20 PM
05/12/19 02:20 PM
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NORTH DAKOTA
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Duckstick80 Offline OP
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NORTH DAKOTA
Say one sibling has POA and they buy some of their parents land at 40% value and sell the same amount to another sibling for the same or less since the farm house was on this land. The other sibling wants to buy land and they tell them they need to pay 2.25 times more what they paid. The reason for the purchase was the principal needed more money for medical reasons but there was no proof of this. Is that in the best interest of the principle or are they gaining assets at the cost of the principal? Is there anything the sibling can do? A few vehicles were also taken with zero or very low payment vs market price.

From what I understand every decision is suppose to be in the best interest of the principle. Shouldn't the other two siblings be required to pay full price for everything they get?

Last edited by Duckstick80; 05/12/19 02:24 PM.
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536367
05/12/19 02:49 PM
05/12/19 02:49 PM
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mn north of blakely
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Steven 49er Offline
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mn north of blakely
Get an attorney.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Steven 49er] #6536373
05/12/19 03:11 PM
05/12/19 03:11 PM
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Posts: 1,181
Golconda, IL
nramemb Offline
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Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Get an attorney.


yup a good one

Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536375
05/12/19 03:22 PM
05/12/19 03:22 PM
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Lugnut Offline
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It sounds like a repeat of the age-old story of siblings turning on each other when the parent's money and estate become available. One sibling with POA abuses that power to his/her benefit and the other siblings are screwed. That's just one of many scenarios.

I agree with the above advice. Get a good lawyer.


Eh...wot?

Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536379
05/12/19 03:59 PM
05/12/19 03:59 PM
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Posts: 3,001
USA MN
Snowpa Offline
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If you go through probate it costs everybody .


Never Confuse Stupid With Crazy
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536398
05/12/19 04:57 PM
05/12/19 04:57 PM
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Ohio
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newtoga Offline
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My Mother’s estate went very smooth. My other two siblings were easy to deal with. But both of my siblings had daughters that had borrowed money from mom and had not paid it back, I have the contracts, lol. Might ask for it someday, it’s more fun holding the contracts.
As for advice get an attorney


lifetime member NTA, OSTA, GTA
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536402
05/12/19 05:16 PM
05/12/19 05:16 PM
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MT
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snowy Offline
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Well, the first thing I would do is get all of you together and talk about what is happening. I would ask for a fair shake and all should be treated equal if no results then I would tell an attorney will be in touch with them. There also maybe some laws they are breaking other then being fair to all on the price.

With mentioning an attorney getting involved they may come right around and do what is right and fair. No one wants to get started with that avenue if it can be taken care of in a civil way.

Last edited by snowy; 05/12/19 06:34 PM.

Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: snowy] #6536416
05/12/19 05:55 PM
05/12/19 05:55 PM
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Posts: 11,296
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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You can choose your friends but not your family. Legal professionals can do the in fighting for the family so they don't have to do the dirty stuff on a personal level and it makes the legal fees seem low.

Bryce

Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536422
05/12/19 06:14 PM
05/12/19 06:14 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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It wont take the lawyers long to have it all.
Do your best to sort it out without lawyers being involved.
If it comes to lawyers fighting it out in court,you and your siblings will have little or nothing left.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536447
05/12/19 07:16 PM
05/12/19 07:16 PM
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Posts: 361
NORTH DAKOTA
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Duckstick80 Offline OP
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It's not for me it's close to home though. My side has money for a lawyer but if they have to hire one each they won't have anything left. I don't imagine they can use the principles money for a lawyer legally. The POA was asked if my side could buy land and they said $500 more an acre than they paid and they had others interested in it. The one sibling bought 40 acres for $16,000 with the house on it and I guess it includes all of the parents belongings and everything in the yard/buildings etc. They even said we can't pull 2 miles of fence we just put on it and they all know who paid for the materials and who did the work.

Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536451
05/12/19 07:25 PM
05/12/19 07:25 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Whatever you win,there will be a lien on it from the lawyer bills.A lawyer told me this in no uncertain terms.They can drag it out until it will all be gone.Better to settle in a fair manner between yourselves.
A power of attorney does not give the person the right to profit in any way from those granting the power of attorney.Any moneys spent administering the affairs must be documented and accounted for,and can be reimbursed for out of pocket expenses incurred.
If the land is sold to cover expenses incurred,it must be sold at market value,and if sold under value to a relative(for a possible kickback),that would definitely be not only a conflict of intrest but also likely fraud.
However if these are the wishes of the principle then it will be a rough go to change that.The lawyers love cases like that.A lot of times doctors are involved also,in cases where the persons mental capacity comes into question at the time the Power of attorney was made,or a will changed etc.
Does not take long to rack up the bills against the estate.
That said,sometimes a letter or two from a Lawyer threatening action is enough to scare off a fraudster.

Last edited by Boco; 05/12/19 07:41 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536471
05/12/19 08:02 PM
05/12/19 08:02 PM
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NORTH DAKOTA
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Duckstick80 Offline OP
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Boco, the principle is almost 95 and has dementia so bad they don't remember their children anymore. Her will stated different than what's going on.

Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536473
05/12/19 08:14 PM
05/12/19 08:14 PM
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Duckstick80 Offline OP
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The one with the POA took the principle to the lawyer on the principal's request years ago so they could get a will made up. I'm certain they sat with them and heard all of it and wasn't pleased. The principle was a very stubborn stuck in their ways person who wouldn't be told what to do by anyone lol!

Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536477
05/12/19 08:21 PM
05/12/19 08:21 PM
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Diggerman Online content
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No.1, Its not your money. No.2, you shouldn't assume any of it is your money.

Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Diggerman] #6536494
05/12/19 08:54 PM
05/12/19 08:54 PM
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Duckstick80 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Diggerman
No.1, Its not your money. No.2, you shouldn't assume any of it is your money.


What does this comment have to do with anything I said? I was talking about a power of attorney abusing the power to get cheap land for themselves and a sibling then wanting top dollar for more land on the same quarter from a third sibling when they wanted to PAY for it. All the land proceeds are going into the principles account.

The person who owns it all is still alive, just can't make decisions and the power of attorney isn't makeing the best either. There is a will that will clarify the money issue when that day comes but this isn't about that.

Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536509
05/12/19 09:23 PM
05/12/19 09:23 PM
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danny clifton Offline
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seen lots of families bust up over money.

my sisters can have whatever they think is fair. rather have my sisters than property. im a grown man. I can earn my own stuff


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: danny clifton] #6536536
05/12/19 10:38 PM
05/12/19 10:38 PM
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NORTH DAKOTA
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Duckstick80 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
seen lots of families bust up over money.

my sisters can have whatever they think is fair. rather have my sisters than property. im a grown man. I can earn my own stuff


How is trying to buy something not earning your own stuff? He's upset because he wants to buy the same amount of land that they did but when he made the attempt his sibling wanted 2.25 times more money for land that's on the same section. His mother is still alive and his siblings said they had to buy it to make sure she had money for the nursing home. However she had enough for another 7 months so there was time to sell it for full value or auction it if that was true. Not sell it to yourself at a discount price. Ripping your own parent off so you can afford land isn't earning anything!

And what upset him is they told him they already had other buyers lined up

Last edited by Duckstick80; 05/12/19 10:44 PM.
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536565
05/12/19 11:49 PM
05/12/19 11:49 PM
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Diggerman Online content
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That is the tough thing about estates. Emotions and people feeling they should be asked or consulted. Yes, your family should consult you first if you have a good relationship, if not, nothing personal, just business. Ultimately it is his moms money, and it appears the money grubbers or squatters have already got the upper hand, so either you let it go or roll up your sleeves.

Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536592
05/13/19 03:37 AM
05/13/19 03:37 AM
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waggler Offline
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As said earlier they need an attorney; yesterday. You said the Will is not being followed. Who is the executor/executrix?
The persons feeling slighted should not be dragging their feet on this issue. It always amazes me how people will be penny wise, and pound foolish. They need an attorney.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Power of attorney and selling land ??? [Re: Duckstick80] #6536629
05/13/19 07:16 AM
05/13/19 07:16 AM
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Ohio
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It would be diff in every state. I don't know anything about North Dakota. You can talk to a North Dakota estate lawyer and see what they say before doing anything too drastic. Good luck.

I saw my dad have to swallow some pride with his parents estate like mentioned above. Then when he died I had to do the same thing. "fair" is "fair" but no two sides see it the same way.

The common problem is someone better off gets less b/c they don't seem to need it. The better off people feel slighted then. Where if it were split evenly the worse off people feel slighted b/c the better off people "don't need it". So begins the arguing. Best of luck.

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