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Re: Social Security [Re: Steven 49er] #6540395
05/19/19 01:39 PM
05/19/19 01:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Originally Posted by Steven 49er
It's not the government's job to take care of a person when they are young and it isnt when they are old.




So if they put nothing away and have nothing when they get older it's a tough luck kind of thing then? Or will we all be paying for welfare for them same folks when they could of funded it themselves with SS? Are we protecting them from poverty or the big bad Government or protecting ourselves from those that are willing to take everything they can get from others?

SS is not much different then a 401K funded employer match really so your idea is people that don't have a plan then they can die on the street? I know a lot of folks that if they handled their own funds and did not pay into SS that would be in line for services now.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540400
05/19/19 01:55 PM
05/19/19 01:55 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
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Steven 49er Offline
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SS is entirely different than a 401k style plan. You do realize it's a wealth redistribution program? Those who pay in less get a better return on their "investment" than those who paid in more.

If I pay in twice as much as someone else I won't get twice as much back.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: Social Security [Re: Law Dog] #6540405
05/19/19 02:06 PM
05/19/19 02:06 PM
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Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Originally Posted by Law Dog
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
It's not the government's job to take care of a person when they are young and it isnt when they are old.




So if they put nothing away and have nothing when they get older it's a tough luck kind of thing then? Or will we all be paying for welfare for them same folks when they could of funded it themselves with SS? Are we protecting them from poverty or the big bad Government or protecting ourselves from those that are willing to take everything they can get from others?

SS is not much different then a 401K funded employer match really so your idea is people that don't have a plan then they can die on the street? I know a lot of folks that if they handled their own funds and did not pay into SS that would be in line for services now.


It is not tough luck. Luck has nothing to do with it. They chose not to put money away. Their choice to die in the street. It is not the government's responsibility to make good decisions for you or protect you from dying form your own inaction.

Last edited by Dirt; 05/19/19 02:08 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540417
05/19/19 02:29 PM
05/19/19 02:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Our society doesn't think that way,we have chosen to provide a social safety net.
Hitler gassed those unfortunate types of people.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540422
05/19/19 02:50 PM
05/19/19 02:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Societies do not have brains. Therefore they don't think. FDR chose to provide a program to encourage people to retire to make room for younger workers to gain employment in a time when unemployment was high. It did not even apply to everybody.

"The original Social Security Act of 1935 created retirement benefits for only the retired worker, who became eligible at age 65. In 1939, Congress passed amendments to extend benefits to spouses and minor children of retired and deceased workers. Disability insurance arrived in 1954, and the disability program expanded in subsequent years to include the families of disabled workers. In 1972, Congress passed legislation to create annual cost-of-living adjustments for benefit levels. Prior to that time, benefit increases were subject to the whims of Congress and happened only intermittently."
"
The Social Security Act, enacted on August 14, 1935, provided a new federally administered system of social insurance for the aged financed through payroll taxes paid by employees and their employers. Under the system, which applied only to workers in commerce and industry, people would earn retirement benefit eligibility as they worked. With some exceptions, benefits would be related to workers' average covered earnings, and workers could not have earnings and still be eligible for benefits. No benefits were provided for spouses or children, and lump-sum refunds were provided to the estates of workers who died before age 65 or before receiving at least the equivalent in benefits of their taxes plus interest. Collection of payroll taxes began in 1937, and benefit payments were scheduled to begin in 1942."

And then FDR (not society) threatened to pack the u.s supreme court when the new law came up for review causing two judges to change sides.

Last edited by Dirt; 05/19/19 03:09 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540430
05/19/19 03:07 PM
05/19/19 03:07 PM
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Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Au Contraire.Soceity is made up of voters who have brains.

Last edited by Boco; 05/19/19 03:11 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Social Security [Re: Boco] #6540434
05/19/19 03:11 PM
05/19/19 03:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
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Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
[quote=Boco]Au Contraire.Soceity is made up of voters who have brains.[/quote

""]The Myth of the Rational Voter": Why Democracies Choose Bad Policies is a 2007 book by Bryan Caplan, in which the author challenges the idea that voters are reasonable people that society can trust to make laws."


Who is John Galt?
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540436
05/19/19 03:15 PM
05/19/19 03:15 PM
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Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
That is what Hitler and Stalin thought.
No need for voters when your a dictator.Peons don't have the right to say how the country is run.They are just dumb sheep.

Last edited by Boco; 05/19/19 03:17 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540444
05/19/19 03:35 PM
05/19/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Say what you want I did it the way it was set up and so far it's all good, I paid in and they send me a check every month have not seen the downside yet, paid into Medicare and will be covered at 65 with a supplement. Had they let me do what I wanted when I was younger I would be getting nothing most likely. I can't dance or sing so street performer is out. LOL

It's always been a pay it forward kind of thing and I understood that from the get go, as far as people curling up and dying in the street for poor planning I doubt that would go like that a dozen other issues would come from it. We don't have to worry about the Government taking care of us in the future with the current direction of killing babies at birth growing old won't be a option in the future maybe.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Social Security [Re: Law Dog] #6540446
05/19/19 03:39 PM
05/19/19 03:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
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Crivitz WI
Sprung & Rusty Offline
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Originally Posted by Law Dog


It's always been a pay it forward kind of thing and I understood that from the get go, as far as people curling up and dying in the street for poor planning I doubt that would go like that a dozen other issues would come from it. We don't have to worry about the Government taking care of us in the future with the current direction of killing babies at birth growing old won't be a option in the future maybe.


You mean like the movie Logan's Run. Lol


No Jab.
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540449
05/19/19 03:47 PM
05/19/19 03:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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If they can say a newborn is not alive then anything is possible!


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540457
05/19/19 04:01 PM
05/19/19 04:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,947
n.e, iowa
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coonman220 Offline
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U can loose money on 401k, if u can get a good union job for years. After so many years, way before 65, u can retire on union pension, if u work so many years at Union Job, I never been that fortunate to work for union

Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540472
05/19/19 04:36 PM
05/19/19 04:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
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Arkansas
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J Staton Offline
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I figure if you earned the money it should be your choice in what to do with that money. Invest in .gov by buying t-bills, bonds, and such. Invest in the stock market or put it in a shoe box. Heck blow it all on loose women and booze if that's what you decide. After all it's your money.


James 1: 19-20
Re: Social Security [Re: Boco] #6540473
05/19/19 04:36 PM
05/19/19 04:36 PM
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Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
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Steven 49er Offline
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Originally Posted by Boco
Au Contraire.Soceity is made up of voters who have brains.


That is right. They are figuring out it's easier to take someone else's money than it is to plan for themselves


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540475
05/19/19 04:38 PM
05/19/19 04:38 PM
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Rat Masterson Offline
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Pensions are also a ponsi scheme.

Re: Social Security [Re: Boco] #6540477
05/19/19 04:43 PM
05/19/19 04:43 PM
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Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Originally Posted by Boco
That is what Hitler and Stalin thought.
No need for voters when your a dictator.Peons don't have the right to say how the country is run.They are just dumb sheep.


"The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant (AKA FDR) could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:

It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief."

"Dictate

lay down authoritatively; prescribe.
"the tsar's attempts to dictate policy"
synonyms: give orders to, order about/around, boss (about/around), impose one's will on, lord it over, bully, domineer, dominate, tyrannize, oppress, ride roughshod over, control, pressurize, browbeat; "


Last edited by Dirt; 05/19/19 05:46 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Social Security [Re: Rat Masterson] #6540479
05/19/19 04:46 PM
05/19/19 04:46 PM
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Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Pensions are also a ponsi scheme.


Some are, some are not. I think most government ones are though.

Rethinking this maybe government ones are not. They rely on future money from non-participants in the scheme.

" Ponzi Scheme : a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors."

Government retirement programs, many times, are paid for with future tax revenue from people ( non-investors ) who will not be investing in the retirement program and will never get a pay out.



Last edited by Dirt; 05/19/19 05:25 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Social Security [Re: Rat Masterson] #6540491
05/19/19 05:37 PM
05/19/19 05:37 PM
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mn north of blakely
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Steven 49er Offline
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Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Pensions are also a ponsi scheme.


Like Dirt says, some are some aren't. Mine doesn't rely on future contributions.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: Social Security [Re: Fisher Man] #6540494
05/19/19 05:40 PM
05/19/19 05:40 PM
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South Dakota
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Rat Masterson Offline
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SS and pensions rely on future and more payers and both can and will eventually go broke, the models are unsustainable.

Re: Social Security [Re: Boco] #6540506
05/19/19 06:03 PM
05/19/19 06:03 PM
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Crivitz WI
Sprung & Rusty Offline
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Originally Posted by Boco
People live too long.
In the future people will have an expiry date put on them.


Like I said. The movie Logan's Run.


No Jab.
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