Adapt or die. That's how the world turns.

Yes but the mob is fickle and nearly always wrong, if I were to die for "corrupting the youth" and "impiety" atleast I would be in good company.

I don't think you understand what I said and you better reread what you just wrote.

What we can do to slow or prevent the change is the hiccup we create due to the political nature of the debate. Climate is not a political thing it is a natural thing. The real concern I have is not so much about what we need to change etc. but the political debate prevents us from taking a serious look at what we need to do to shoe up, protect etc. the millions that currently live in areas that are or will be significantly impacted by climate change that is occurring. Even if we go back 100-200 years and measure the temps, rain fall etc. we were dealing with an earth with 1/10th population we have now or less and many live in significantly impacted areas.

Bryce

We need to remember the wisdom of H.L. Menken who wrote "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule".

You need to pretext it with what I wrote originally.

Exactly

Brilliant quote , with much discernment .

I would but the quote rule is cumbersome on a phone.

Plus we are to closely tempting Godwin's law enough as it is.

That is not what I meant.

I admit to not understanding or knowing what is happening in regards to climate change as I said originally. If you release Co2 in a closed system (which we basically are) then that system heats up, of course you could get spots of localized cooling as well due to shifts in ocean currents. I think we are effecting the climate but I do not know to what extent or if we can do anything about it realistically. My hope was that Global climate change would lead to discussions about overpopulation and over consumption but that seems to not be happening.

That's because thanks to Paul Erlich and his colleagues have pretty much destroyed the notion that is overpopulation because of his many failed predictions of the coming doom of population. And people still listen to him. We can shove everyone into Australia and farm the rest of the world if needed.

Cut the trees,plow the Earth and confine everyone to the prison colony, how fitting.

We can shove everyone into Australia and farm the rest of the world if needed.[/quote]


Cut the trees,plow the Earth and confine everyone to the prison colony, how fitting.[/quote]

That is merely an illustration that demonstrates how big the world really is in relation to how much of the planet is actually occupied by people. No one is proposing that is actually an option.

so, you're accounting for TWO variables (Co2 and ocean currents)...and a tiny fraction of "ocean currents" variability, at THAT!).

how many more variables affect Earth's climate?

see the problem?

what's the "right thing"?

are YOU the arbitor? maybe it's ME!

how about we try Individual Freedom...it's worked before!

If you listen to the more extreme evironmental groups that's exactly what they want. Every one in cities and nobody outside.

Trees and corn use carbon dioxide but we build bigger cities and more highways! And no I am not a tree hugger, I say use up the old wood and plant new.

I have already said I do not have a full understanding of it and do not claim to. Not sure what you are getting at.


Did you purposefully not read the last sentence because it would ruin a your preconceived notion of what I was trying to express? Was I advocating manipulation through deception or was I saying people should have more fear of the consequences from their negative actions?

The Australia example as a way to demonstrate the size of the earth is insane and honestly outright stupid. We could probably fit every deer in the state of Minnesota onto a 200 acre feedlot, that doesnt mean that they will not starve to death when dispersed over an entire state during a hard winter. I know Trappers are not so daft as to not understand overpopulation and how it not only relates to living space but also food supply, social dynamics etc. And speaking of food supply, just because we can grow enough corn and soy to produce pre packaged garbage to feed 9 Billion people it doesnt mean that we should continue to grow population. Modern farming basically creates deserts, sure some game animals (geese, deer) may do well in a corn field but compared to the diversity of the natural environment modern agriculture is a black desert. It would be better for us and the environment if we had less row crops and more grazing but that would require a lower human population.