It's my understanding that the online input from people who didnt at least show up to get a Random Verifiable Number (RFN) at one of the meetings was counted differently than in-person votes and those who filled out online with an RFN. But again, the RFN doesn't count for much if you get your number and leave and dont hear the discussion.

My major concern is outdoorsmen and women being told what to do by those who dont participate in the activities they're voting on. But we're digging our own graves. Nearly a million people bought deer hunting licenses in 2018. The problem is only 4 in 1,000 found the time to attend the meeting. That's just deer hunters, but if you add in anglers and trappers and recreational vehicle users, that number shrinks even more.

I'm open to ideas. There has to be a feasible method of motivating more on our side of the fence. Now that you can get a number when you go in, maybe some sort of raffle or something, but I think it's gotta be bigger than that to really increase attendance.

Good luck. The couch calls louder than the sacrifice to make the once a year meeting.

I feel that being able to vote online is better than to not vote @ all. I don’t agree with allowing NR input though.
No point worrying about whether one has a customer number or not...anyone can obtain that. With or without the purchase of a hunting, fishing or trapping license.

Handitrapper, would you still rather someone not educated about trapping vote against trapping because they think it's all big toothy bear traps, or not vote at all?

The point about not having a number is a concrete indication the voter hasn't done any hunting/fishing/trapping or registered a recreational vehicle in the last 20 years. Those voters without numbers aren't all uneducated on hunting/fishing/trapping, but some definitely are.

That's the point I was making.

I don't think that people that DID NOT have a DNR customer ID number are the problem. I feel the ones that do that vote are the problem. How many deer tags does WI give out? How any fishing license do they sell? Where are the ones that are hunting,fishing and trapping?

Are you making any assumptions? Is that field required to fill out the questionnaire? How many just didn't provide that number because it would have taken more work to get it?

That said, your concern about folks making decisions with no knowledge should concern us. Why is there no knowledge in a world that revolves around information at your fingertips in an instant?

We are a very small minority that tends to stick in an even smaller circle. I don't buy consumptive and non-consumptive users can't work together and alongside each other towards common goals. It's already happening. https://gearjunkie.com/yvon-chouinard-patagonia-hunters-anglers

IMO, it's about educating on the role and value we provide. Some where along the line, we forgot that.

Personally I don't feel the lack of showing at hearings is due to being lazy. I feel it is more about wanting to set back and see what decisions get made and how and then be able to blame, grouse or complain. It is much easier to do that if you did not have input into the process then if you were actively involved. We are now for the most part punting our outdoor sporting laws, seasons, regs. etc. to a very few and then we can throw darts when things don't go are way. I also feel that in many ways there is a desire to find ways to not comply with the rules that are being made and many seem to take much pride in that. An example would be the huge gap between managing deer populations on private versus public lands. In many areas the only way to control deer numbers is to have huge harvests in the public areas so the average can be maintained. If we look at the areas with the highest concentration of deer and CWD they occur in general where there is little to know public land to provide a place for higher harvest rates. We have two quite different deer management systems taking place in WI and it seems very little support or discussion between the two very different approaches to managing the herd. Mother nature probably is and will handle that for us.

Bryce

So....Because I wasn’t able to attend the meeting this year due to a prior family commitment, I shouldn’t have been allowed to have a vote? That’s the point I’m making.
We don’t live in a perfect world.

No assumptions made, online participants couldn't vote without a customer ID number connected to a SSN to prevent duplicate voting. And 5,100 or so people went online and set up an account just to vote.

You're right, it's not a perfect system. As someone who couldn't attend the meeting for one reason or another, you fell in with the vast majority of outdoorsmen in Wisconsin. I won't ask if you took the time to vote online because it isn't relevant.

The underlying point I've been trying to make this whole time is we need more like-minded individuals with butts in seats at the meeting, but I dont know how to make it happen. Butts in seats vote for delegates that ultimately decide what passes from the Conservation Congress to the DNR.

They call them consumptive users here in NY. Photographers, bird watchers, etc. Their activities are just as important as hunting, trapping.

tlguy, as someone that provided my input online, I am 95% positive that the customer ID field was a voluntary field, but your conviction has me doubting.

Now could they get the data that said I was a consumptive user by the other information I was required to provide when I set up a survey monkey account to provide input online? For sure, but it would have required running a pretty complex report of two different data sources. To be counted in that customer ID field, I am pretty sure I had to voluntarily self identify; otherwise, I was lumped into the 70% without an ID.

Curious to understand how you came to a different conclusion. I will dig into it some to see if I can get us to the right answer.

WIMarshRAT, now you've got me doubting my conviction! I guess I assumed it was required to prevent duplicate voting, but that could very well be wrong. The wording in the article also led me to believe it was required, though it didn't say specifically that it was. I'm checking into it as well with some of my contacts at the DNR.

I guess if it wasnt required and most people simply chose not to include it for whatever reason, then my original outburst was unwarranted. The concern about not enough butts in seats still lives on, but I will report back when I hear back for sure.

If you are living anywhere in WI, I hope you run. The WCC would be better because of it and trappers in this state would be better because of it! I know I would be happy to have you serve as my county delegate.



I caution the use of the word "like-minded" just because of the value I see in differing opinions, but your point is not lost. Find folks that care. It all starts with one. Show up at a few conservation club meetings in the county. See how you can get involved and join if you are interested. Help bring awareness to things happening in the county. You will be amazed at the number of folks that exist in the county that care. They are not at every meeting, but they are always the first ones to show up when they see value and are asked.

Not a big fan of sitting in meetings, look at all the citizen resolutions that passed this spring. Identify those that should be of interest in those in the county and spend a little time making sure everyone is aware of them. From forums to different groups on FB, start the discussion.

In 2014, there was a citizen resolution to move to a bag limit on otter. I bet very few of us on the forum knew the guy. The guy was less concerned on the move to bag limit and more concerned with our misuse of the resource. It started a pretty good thread on this very forum called Otter Logic.

More folks I never knew and still do not know personally joined the effort. Folks started pushing together on all the different levers of Wildlife Management. Even though that resolution never completely made through all layers of the Conservation Congress, pretty close to everyone will be getting two otter tags this fall. https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/documents/committees/furbearer/fur052219.pdf

It all started by someone submitted a resolution and a whole bunch of like minded folks jumping in line to help.

I would like to formally admit to jumping to conclusions with my original post, as I have since learned that having and entering a customer ID number was not required to vote, so that 70% statistic has much less bearing on the demographic of the online respondents. It has led to some good conversation though, I won't apologize for that.

I'm still looking in to what method the DNR used to prevent a person from submitting multiple surveys.

Since you mentioned otters, I have it on good authority that starting in 2020, there will no longer be a $3 application and each trapper will be allotted an otter bag limit, which I believe will be 2 otters.

I do plan on running for a seat next year, depending on whether or not the August meeting conflicts with a running commitment I have to teach a Learn to Trap course at the beginning of August. My family is moving this summer and will likely end up outside of Brown County.

X3 More time will have to be invested by the Congress addressing the nonsensical and dishonest games played by the antis whose ultimate goal is not harvest and management of fish and game but complete protection of fish and game.

The root of this cancer is Dane County culture where conveniently the Dnr is headquartered so the anti noise has to be heard by the dnr and congress leaders.

One thing is certain for the future. Outdoorsman that sincerely cared about management of fish and game also made the effort to attend the meetings in person so the people brought into the meeting thru online venue do not have harvest and management as their incentive or inspiration.

tlguy, no reason to apologize. It did lead to some healthy conversation. BTW, you have a good source on otter. A fair amount of that information on otter is in that link that I posted above

Lots of other good stuff in there, including the idea of possibly using foot cables for bear. Who was that fellow on here that had an interest in trapping a bear?

I see there is even talk and support for starting a badger season.

Now back to the CC side of the house. The Conservation Congress Fur Harvest Committee will hold their meeting September 21 at Mead. They will be tackling a bunch of topics including the citizen resolutions submitted this spring. https://dnr.wi.gov/.../spring.../2019/2019Resolutions.html

T_H_F, I thought Dane county was able to vote in some consumptive users as delegates this past April and Beav was the ring leader in it? I don't remember the last time we had a legislative friend in Dane County, but I could be wrong. That said, your point is not lost on me. The challenges that can and do come out of the more populated areas.

https://dnr.wi.gov/About/WCC/Documents/spring_hearing/2019/Resolutions/410419.pdf Here is one from this year. I have always said, the beautiful part of the congress is that folks in Florence county have the same number of delegates (5) as Milwaukee County and at the convention those five delegates must vote together and only get counted as one vote. IMO a few areas of the state should not control how the rest of the state operates or the whole thing crumbles. Keep in mind, I live in a county that is the top 10 but is still about 5 times smaller than the top county. I hope all the counties in the bottom 2/3 of this list are paying attention. https://www.wisconsin-demographics.com/counties_by_population

I've been going to the hearings for about 30 years, 20 of which have been in Madison, Dane co. The elected delegates do not make a productive meeting rather it is dependent on the attendees. Dane co has never been productive imo. The atmosphere is combative from the antis and the sportsman are left to take a defensive position. The actual issue and debate is diluted by this nonsense. I personally choose not to get involved and have been close to not even going anymore because it's a bad joke. I tell myself I have purpose to vote for a sportsman delegate and that's the extent of the positive thing I leave with after a hearing. I want to say- I do not hold any anymosity for delegates or dnr employees that manage the hearings in Dane co but instead applaud there effort in spite of all the nonsense. Government employees must consider political correctness in the culture they are cast in.

Before Madison, I attended hearing in west bend, Washington co. It was 20 years ago and I don't know currently but those hearings were productive.

I hope you have another 30 years in you Trap_Hunt_Fish Anyone take a look at the resolutions in the link I posted above and have strong feelings one way or the other?