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Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572472
07/12/19 12:37 PM
07/12/19 12:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,668
OK
Aaron Proffitt Offline
trapper
Aaron Proffitt  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,668
OK
More like after all the deductions and what not , you should’ve paid in $10,000 but you paid $15,000. You get the $5,000 back of your money.

You guys don’t really believe your making money when you’re getting a tax refund do you ?


Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572473
07/12/19 12:41 PM
07/12/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
trapper
Larry Baer  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Only citizens should be allowed to vote.


Just passin through
Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572487
07/12/19 12:59 PM
07/12/19 12:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,688
pa
H
hippie Offline
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hippie  Offline
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H

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Posts: 19,688
pa
For the last 30 years I wrote checks out for my taxes, being self employed, so no that never crossed my mind.

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572508
07/12/19 01:38 PM
07/12/19 01:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,897
minnesota
M
mnsota Offline
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minnesota

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572513
07/12/19 01:41 PM
07/12/19 01:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
So who's ready to end this Democracy nonsense and start pushing for Monarchy as God and nature intended?

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572605
07/12/19 04:25 PM
07/12/19 04:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,459
Michigan
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Garryowen Offline
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Posts: 1,459
Michigan
It's not a democracy.

The United States of America is a federal republic. It is "federal" in that it has a single national government as well as a collection of states and territories, each with its own government and empowered to enact local laws. It is a "republic" in that voters elect representatives and officials to act on their behalf.

Garryowen

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Garryowen] #6572624
07/12/19 04:50 PM
07/12/19 04:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,524
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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Posts: 4,524
MN
Originally Posted by Garryowen
It's not a democracy.

The United States of America is a federal republic. It is "federal" in that it has a single national government as well as a collection of states and territories, each with its own government and empowered to enact local laws. It is a "republic" in that voters elect representatives and officials to act on their behalf.

Garryowen


Republics devolve into democracy, look at all these ballot initiatives removing sensible wildlife management due to emotion of the mob. Constitutional rights can be taken away by voting, to me that is democracy. Our only real requirements to vote is 18+ and a pulse, that is a huge mistake in my eyes and seems to be a symptom of a democracy not a republic.

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572637
07/12/19 05:25 PM
07/12/19 05:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
The Usa like Canada is an electoral democracy.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Boco] #6572639
07/12/19 05:30 PM
07/12/19 05:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
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Catch22  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by Boco
The Usa like Canada is an electoral democracy.

Silly silly canook lol, no.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572646
07/12/19 05:39 PM
07/12/19 05:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
HA HA catch 22,silly yankee,that is from a US source,freedom house's 2017 world survey.

Last edited by Boco; 07/12/19 05:42 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Boco] #6572704
07/12/19 07:31 PM
07/12/19 07:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
B
brianmall Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
Originally Posted by Boco
The Usa like Canada is an electoral democracy.

Originally Posted by Boco
HA HA catch 22,silly yankee,that is from a US source,freedom house's 2017 world survey.



A Republic, If You Can Keep It
At the close of the Constitutional Convention on September 17, 1787, as Benjamin Franklin left
the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr.
Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”1

It is noteworthy that Article 4, Section 4 of the United States Constitution specifies that every
State in the United States was to have a Republican form of government: “The United States
shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government…”
As the Constitutional Convention convened in 1787, the perspective and intention of a limited,
non-democratic government was held from the very beginning of their discussions. On 31 May
1787, Edmund Randolph told his fellow delegates that the purpose of the Convention was “…to
provide a cure for the evils under which the United States labored; that in tracing these evils to
their origin, every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy….”2

In his defense of the outcome of the Convention of 1787, James Madison, the “Father of the
Constitution,” eloquently expressed the fundamental concerns about democracy and the
protections of a republic:
“Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have
ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in
general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths…
“A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place,
opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking.”3

Many other powerful statements regarding the dangers of democracy and the virtues of republics
are noted throughout the Federalist Papers. Wise philosophers and statesmen from early history
recognized the dangers inherent in democracy, and warned society. American founding father,
John Adams, understood well the shortcomings of democracy:
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There
never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.”4

During the founding era of America, historian Alexander Tytler is said to have explained at least
part of the reason why a democracy tends to destroy itself:
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until [a
majority of] the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse [gifts] from the public
treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most
benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose
fiscal policy [taxing and spending], always followed by a dictatorship. The average life of the
world’s greatest civilizations has been two hundred years.”5

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572706
07/12/19 07:33 PM
07/12/19 07:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
B
brianmall Offline
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brianmall  Offline
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B

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
Alexander Hamilton also raised his voice in warning against democracy:
“It has been observed, by an honorable gentleman, that a pure democracy, if it were practicable,
would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position in politics is more
false than this. The ancient democracies, in which the people themselves deliberated, never
possessed one feature of good government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure,
deformity.”6

It is interesting to contrast the words of the American founders to those scurrilous leaders of the
communist movement:
Karl Marx sought to foster democracy to promote the philosophies he wrote of in The
Communist Manifesto. Democracy was seen by Marx as progress towards full blown
communism:
“We have seen above that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the
proletariat to the position of ruling class, to win the battle of democracy.”
Lenin, the communist revolutionary who enslaved Russia, recognized democracy as a tool for his
purposes, writing:
“…just as socialism cannot be victorious unless it introduces complete democracy, so the
proletariat will be unable to prepare for victory over the bourgeoisie unless it wages a many-
sided, consistent and revolutionary struggle for democracy.”7

In 1938 and 1939, the future communist dictator of Mainland China, Mao Tse-tung, following
the lead of Karl Marx and Lenin, explained:
“Education in democracy must be carried on within the Party so that members can understand
the meaning of democratic life, the meaning of the relationship between democracy and
centralism, and the way in which democratic centralism should be put into practice.”8

“Taken as a whole, the Chinese revolutionary movement led by the Communist Party embraces
the two stages, i.e., the democratic and the socialist revolutions, which are two essentially
different revolutionary processes, and the second process can be carried through only after the
first has been completed. The democratic revolution is the necessary preparation for the socialist
revolution, and the socialist revolution is the inevitable sequel to the democratic revolution.”9

From the perspective of those who seek to subjugate humanity under their bloody yoke,
implementing democracy is a necessary preliminary step.
Tragically, early in the 20th Century, United States President Woodrow Wilson and his “alter
ego” Edwin Mandell House popularized the concept of democracy as the American political
form of government, and its value for the entire world (“We must make the world safe for
democracy”). Since that time, there has been an unremitting effort on the part of the socialist-
globalist cabal to universalize the false philosophy that the United States of America was

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572707
07/12/19 07:34 PM
07/12/19 07:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
B
brianmall Offline
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brianmall  Offline
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B

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
established originally as a democracy, and that that form of government continues to be the ideal
of this nation, as well as the goal of all nations which would be free.
Today the term “democracy” is used almost exclusively as a term to describe the form of
government which its promoters would say governs the United States. While this is a totally false
concept, it has been made almost universally accepted as true.
Presidents, governors, senators,
congressmen, media moguls, teachers, etc. embrace and promote democracy as America’s form
of government. Indeed, based upon the ubiquitous and universal nature of the effort, it would
seem appropriate to term the movement to redefine the Nation as a democracy an organized
“campaign.” Because of this, it is critically important to remind ourselves that the United States
is a republic. It was created as a republic by well-thought, purposeful action. It was specifically
NOT created as a democracy.

In a republic, the elected representatives create legislation within the limited framework
established by the Nation’s charter, The United States Constitution. The founders saw many
dangers inherent in a democracy, and they rejected it as a dangerous form of government, prone
to a kind of “mob rule” mentality. They unequivocally established a republic, placing limits upon
the power of the legislature by which they could create law, thus seeking to prevent tyranny.
- Scott N. Bradley
1. Papers of Dr. James McHenry on the Federal Convention of 1787, in Charles C. Tansill, comp.
Documents Illustrative of the Formation of the Union of the American States [Washington: U.S.
Printing Office, 1927], page 952.
2. James Madison, Journal of the Federal Convention, Vol.1, p.81
3. The Federalist No. 10
4. John Adams, letter to John Taylor, April 15, 1814.—The Works of John Adams, ed. Charles
Francis Adams, vol. 6, p. 484 [1851]
5. Quoted in Laurel Hicks et al., American Government and Economics [Pensacola, Fla.: Becka
Book Publication, 1984], p. 37
6. Alexander Hamilton, Jonathan Elliot, Debates on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution,
Vol. 2, p.253
7. V. I. Lenin, The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self Determination (Theses),
Editorial Board of Social-Democrat, Central Organ of the R.S.D.L.P., Published in German in
April 1916 in Vorbote, No. 2 Published in Russian in October 1916 in Sbornik Sotsial-
Demokrata, No. 1 Printed according to the Sbornik text. Written in January-February 1916
8. Mao Tse-tung, The Role of the Chinese Communist Party in the National War [October 1938],
Selected Works, Vol. II, p. 205.

Last edited by brianmall; 07/12/19 07:36 PM.
Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572725
07/12/19 08:00 PM
07/12/19 08:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
Being a republic does not exclude you from being an electoral democracy.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: brianmall] #6572806
07/12/19 09:53 PM
07/12/19 09:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
B
brianmall Offline
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brianmall  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
Originally Posted by brianmall
established originally as a democracy, and that that form of government continues to be the ideal
of this nation, as well as the goal of all nations which would be free.
Today the term “democracy” is used almost exclusively as a term to describe the form of
government which its promoters would say governs the United States. While this is a totally false
concept, it has been made almost universally accepted as true.
Presidents, governors, senators,
congressmen, media moguls, teachers, and Boco. embrace and promote democracy as America’s form
of government. Indeed, based upon the ubiquitous and universal nature of the effort, it would
seem appropriate to term the movement to redefine the Nation as a democracy an organized
“campaign.” Because of this, it is critically important to remind ourselves that the United States
is a republic. It was created as a republic by well-thought, purposeful action. It was specifically
NOT created as a democracy.

In a republic, the elected representatives create legislation within the limited framework
established by the Nation’s charter, The United States Constitution. The founders saw many
dangers inherent in a democracy, and they rejected it as a dangerous form of government, prone
to a kind of “mob rule” mentality. They unequivocally established a republic, placing limits upon
the power of the legislature by which they could create law, thus seeking to prevent tyranny.
- Scott N. Bradley
1. Papers of Dr. James McHenry on the Federal Convention of 1787, in Charles C. Tansill, comp.
Documents Illustrative of the Formation of the Union of the American States [Washington: U.S.
Printing Office, 1927], page 952.
2. James Madison, Journal of the Federal Convention, Vol.1, p.81
3. The Federalist No. 10
4. John Adams, letter to John Taylor, April 15, 1814.—The Works of John Adams, ed. Charles
Francis Adams, vol. 6, p. 484 [1851]
5. Quoted in Laurel Hicks et al., American Government and Economics [Pensacola, Fla.: Becka
Book Publication, 1984], p. 37
6. Alexander Hamilton, Jonathan Elliot, Debates on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution,
Vol. 2, p.253
7. V. I. Lenin, The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self Determination (Theses),
Editorial Board of Social-Democrat, Central Organ of the R.S.D.L.P., Published in German in
April 1916 in Vorbote, No. 2 Published in Russian in October 1916 in Sbornik Sotsial-
Demokrata, No. 1 Printed according to the Sbornik text. Written in January-February 1916
8. Mao Tse-tung, The Role of the Chinese Communist Party in the National War [October 1938],
Selected Works, Vol. II, p. 205.

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572807
07/12/19 09:53 PM
07/12/19 09:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Posts: 11,269
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See if he catches it?

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Boco] #6572816
07/12/19 10:12 PM
07/12/19 10:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
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Catch22  Offline
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Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by Boco
Being a republic does not exclude you from being an electoral democracy.

Silly Irish Canook lol. Stick to fur. grin


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572818
07/12/19 10:13 PM
07/12/19 10:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,763
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
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DelawareRob  Offline
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East of the Mason-Dixon Line
Lol


Who is John Galt?

You don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.

Semper Paratus
Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572865
07/12/19 10:51 PM
07/12/19 10:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,897
minnesota
M
mnsota Offline
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mnsota  Offline
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M

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Posts: 3,897
minnesota
I doubt our founding fathers could conceive what America may become, but I feel confident they would question foreign intrusion in it's build up.

Re: Voting in U.S. [Re: Fisher Man] #6572929
07/12/19 11:47 PM
07/12/19 11:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
North Korea is a republic.But unlike the US republic it is not an electoral democracy.
All free western countries,the US,Australia,Canada etc,although they have different systems of government are all electoral democracys.
There are many republics that are far from free and are not electoral democracys.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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