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Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: Marty B] #6572389
07/12/19 09:21 AM
07/12/19 09:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,692
Meridian, Idaho
10bands Offline OP
trapper
10bands  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,692
Meridian, Idaho
Originally Posted by Marty B

Well look at that. They’re back. Now if they just had something to sell.

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6572409
07/12/19 10:11 AM
07/12/19 10:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Green County Wisconsin
we shoot mostly patched round ball but I have shot Lee R.E.A.L and Hornady Great planes bullets also.

If I am reloading in the field to start tracking a deer , I just dump powder and put down another conical or patched ball I can get away with that 2-3 times never really needed any more than 2

if I am trying to make nice little groups on paper I clean.

in our youth muzzle loader shoot we shoot from 25 to 100 yards patched round ball. the max powder charge for the kids is 60gr , why 60 because if you double charge your still only at 120 and safe for most all muzzle loaders.

you can get to 100 yards on 60 grains there is drop but it works. learning how to handle that drop and wind without having to have a 200 yard range is also a part of the lighter load and it doesn't hurt cost either

at 25 yards I typically run 30gr of black it is all that is needed to punch targets at 25-35 yards

targets and what you want to hit are generally small in this game so trying to be as accurate and consistent as possible over a shot string of 12-40 rounds is important.

getting back to a clean barrel is the most consistent as there is really no way to measure the amount of fouling and it changes based on the humidity of the day. so I will run patches till the patched jag slides as easily as it did the first damp patch in a clean barrel.


before loading we pop 2 caps down range , find a blade of grass on the range to pop the 3rd cap at to make sure I have good pressure at the muzzle form the cap , telling me I have a clear and open flash channel.

then run a damp patch. listening for a good his from the nipple also telling me that the flash channel is clear as is the nipple. if you pull your patched jag from the muzzle and get a pop you have vacuum and the nipple needs checking it is plugged.

measure and drop powder , from the measure , then a lubed patch and ball spru up. start it with the short starter , run it down using short strokes do not put your hand high or over the end of the ram rod.


patch lube / cleaner you can use many things , saliva works so if you like to chew on dental gauze go right ahead wad up that cheek with patches

we use 1/3 rubbing alcohol , 1/3 hydrogen peroxide 3% , 1/3 Murphy oil soap and this works well or patch lube and cleaner it is some times called Friendship speed Juice other times it may be called moose milk there is much use of common names for things in muzzle loading even when it may be several different actual products in the details as long as they do the same thing.

however when I think Moose Milk I think water soluble cutting and grinding oil and water . I have been using Napa cutting and grinding tool oil part number 765-1526 and run it about 10 parts water to 1 part oil.

I haven't noticed any real performance difference and cost is very similar to the 1:1:1 ratio of peroxide, alcohol and oil soap

my hope is that the moose milk with napa cutting tool oil helps some with corrosion but I wasn't really having any problem with corrosion with a good clean and lube any way. I am mostly trying it to try it.

on Hornady swagged balls there is not spru so load them how they lay.

I typically run a 0.015" patch and a 0.490" round ball but every gun varies in bore size so try different patches till you find one that you can start with out beating up your hand but gives you a good fit into the rifling and seal.

I like to run FFFG black in everything , currently using Shuetzen we did a group buy and purchased a 25 pound bag then broke it down into our saved cans. this is the supplier I use http://www.addictedtoblackpowder.com/product/
check your state laws in WIS we can have 50# per person but with no more than 50 stored in one place. in IL I think they can only have 5# move or store max.

Typically unless you have a very long barrel only around 80 gr to 100gr of black powder can burn in a barrel and the rest of it is smoke out the front. work up a hunting load , loading the same way and increasing powder charge till you hit your book max or loose accuracy then go back to the last place you had accuracy

subs like 777 are a bit different but even with them there is a point where you get very minimal increase in velocity and just more smoke , Ideally we would have a chronograph and find the load and load procedure with the most consistency in velocity. but since none of that was available to the late 20th century and still not a tool everyone has , shooting groups on paper from a good rest will tell us what we want to know withing a decent level of accuracy.

make sure you shoot many distances , patched round balls when they loose steam start dropping very quickly , you may be perfect for a 50 yard shot and inches low at 75 yards

when I am done with a range trip I run several damp patches till they come out nearly clean then go home and cleaning is easy.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6572433
07/12/19 11:10 AM
07/12/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,480
New Hampshire
N
Nessmuck Offline
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Nessmuck  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,480
New Hampshire
Pete.....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ your good at typing

Last edited by Nessmuck; 07/12/19 11:11 AM.

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: Nessmuck] #6572439
07/12/19 11:26 AM
07/12/19 11:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Nessmuck
Pete.....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ your good at typing



hopefully that is a good thing , although my wife would tell me my punctuation and grammar is lacking.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6574069
07/15/19 12:23 AM
07/15/19 12:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,692
Meridian, Idaho
10bands Offline OP
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10bands  Offline OP
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Posts: 2,692
Meridian, Idaho
Went and shot it today. 90 grains of 777 and a 420 grain No Excuses bullet. After getting it in the middle of the paper I backed up to 100 yards and swabbed after each shot and ended up with a 3 shot 3" group. Pretty happy with that. Now as soon as my shoulder heals up I'll go do it again. cry

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Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6574110
07/15/19 06:09 AM
07/15/19 06:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Online content
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Online Content
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
Quote
When you’re looking for the best load while at the range, how often do you swab the barrel and what do you use to do it?


I have only shot 2f goex and pyrodex p in mine. ( bought the pyrodex for a pistol and decided to try some in the rifle) With goex I can get by swabbing out the barrel with a product called moose milk by running a wet patch then a dry patch every other shot, but swabbing between every shot gives a tighter group. With the pyrodex I just keep shooting. Clean completely when I'm done shooting. I shoot patched balls. The patch thickness has a bigger impact on accuracy than the charge IMO.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6574159
07/15/19 08:02 AM
07/15/19 08:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 813
lebanon mo,
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waterwells Offline
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lebanon mo,
I use Mr Flintlock on my patches and for cleaning ,then ballistol .


PTA life member 242
Dealer in Quality H2o
Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6574204
07/15/19 09:21 AM
07/15/19 09:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by 10bands
Went and shot it today. 90 grains of 777 and a 420 grain No Excuses bullet. After getting it in the middle of the paper I backed up to 100 yards and swabbed after each shot and ended up with a 3 shot 3" group. Pretty happy with that. Now as soon as my shoulder heals up I'll go do it again. cry


a 3MOA group with Irons , plenty of people would be very happy with that from a cartridge gun.

my old load was 90gr 777 and a 410gr Hornady great plains flat nose and got very similar results. then they quit making that bullet.

the penetration was near end to end on a deer , shot 3 with that load before they went to only the 385 hollow point it does very similar but I don't know what they dropped the 410gr

the no excuses 420 looks similar to the 410 great planes , the Hornady GP is a swaged bullet and yours looks cast then sized.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6574233
07/15/19 10:03 AM
07/15/19 10:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,480
New Hampshire
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Nessmuck Offline
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Nessmuck  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,480
New Hampshire
When I shot cap locks ..decades ago..I had a 50 cal Lyman with peep sights and at 50 yards off the bench with 75 grains of FF and a 325 grain Maxi....my 5 shot group looked like a clovah Leaf...iam serious. Peep sights are deadly !


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6574326
07/15/19 01:39 PM
07/15/19 01:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
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tjm Offline
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SWMo.
Do you use ballistol .with gun powder or just with substitutes? I read once that mineral oils and black powder/gun powder were incompatible?

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: tjm] #6574336
07/15/19 02:05 PM
07/15/19 02:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,369
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by tjm
Do you use ballistol .with gun powder or just with substitutes? I read once that mineral oils and black powder/gun powder were incompatible?


they normally are if you use ATF , many gun oils or motor oil you develop a hard fouling but the very light weight water soluble oil balistol as well as many cutting and grinding oils don't seem to be an issue especially when solution with water.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6574337
07/15/19 02:07 PM
07/15/19 02:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,056
Western Wisconsin
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TraderVic Offline
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TraderVic  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,056
Western Wisconsin
I shoot a Lyman Great Plains rifle, 54 cal.
In my round ball barrel, my target load is 60 gr FF Goex with a patch and round ball.
My hunting barrel is a fast twist (1:32) for shooting conicals. My hunting load is a 435 gr Maxiball over 100 gr 2F Goex.
Between shots I'll run a spit moisened patch down the barrel.

Nessmuck....nice rifle and smoothbore musket (or is it a trade gun?)

Green County Pete......perhaps you should try decaf 🙃

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6574344
07/15/19 02:15 PM
07/15/19 02:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,056
Western Wisconsin
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TraderVic Offline
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TraderVic  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,056
Western Wisconsin
Fat fingers anyway.....supposed to be an emoji after my last comment
grin

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. [Re: 10bands] #6574784
07/16/19 07:39 AM
07/16/19 07:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,028
West Cent IL
illinideer Offline
trapper
illinideer  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,028
West Cent IL
I have a 54cal Cva Hawken I swab the barrel out about ever 3rd shot. I use a 50/50 mix of windshield washer fluid and denatured alcohol. 90 grains of pyrodex rs and patched round ball. I also shoot a 50cal cva optima inline 90grns Blackhorn 209, 300gn 45cal xtp(non mag) and a harvester crush rib sabot. Been real happy with blackhorn 209 I shot it around 15 times in a row to see how the gun would load and accuracy. Last shot loaded as easy as the first and consistent accuracy
J




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