Alright a question for the jailhouse lawyers.

I understand the bizarro rules as this.

When building a "modern sporting rifle" on the 60 year old AR the serialized lower is transferred as a receiver if purchased stripped. A receiver can be made into either a pistol or a rifle as long as the pistol is designed for one hand use without a vertical forward grip. A pistol can later be rebuilt into a rifle using the now legacy "pistol" receiver but not the other way around. If the initial build of the receiver is into rifle form it is a rifle receiver forever and eternity. Hence the advice that all receivers should be built into pistols first.

Now the question, what should be done to document for posterity said initial build?

my last tc contender was a g2 bought/came with a rifle barrel and shoulder stock henceforth it was received and registered as a rifle be a felony to put pistol grip and barrel from my selection on it couple years ago I bought a contender frame could not register it till I mounted a barrel and grips as it was registered as a pistol I can legally put on a shoulder stock and rifle barrel

not going to give advice just my story Batf has the regs online if you care to go through the aforementioned and herewith's and not withstanding

Receiver registration is what allows a weapon to be built. my understanding is

a rifle lower is always a rifle lower
A "Other" lower can be built as a pistol or a rifle. BUT if made into a rifle it can not be a pistol ever.
A pistol lower can be a rifle then back to a pistol.

AR pistols ask 10 people get 10 different answers

an other may become a pistol or firearm , then it can go back and forth as a rifle then pistol but if it was first assembled as a rifle or originally sold as a rifle then no it may not be a pistol or firearm again.


that said as long as i was not sold originally as a rifle what evidence is there that it was not a pistol first unless recipts or date stamps showed you didn't own a pistol buffer tube at the time of first assembly.


so if you have a pistol buffer tube and you want to follow the letter of the laws as I read it and I am not a lawyer and will not be at your trial , you can take n "other" stripper lower screw on the pistol buffer tube and it is then first a pistol an thus can go back and forth unless it is sold as a completed rifle at any point.

clear as mud right !

a lower is 50 dollars so playing it very safe I just have a lower built with a pistol buffer tube and a pistol brace and leave it like that it doesn't go back or forth it is a pistol or firearm depending on the upper attached.

You can use a Other lower to build either. if for some reason the AR lower registration was checked by law enforcement (used in a crime, stolen ,whatever) and Other lower is now a rifle and later was checked as a pistol it would be a SBR the your in deep. If charged you may never own a firearm again.
Others can be built as either but once a rifle always a rifle.

All stripped lower should have paper work saying its an OTHER. The only way to be totally safe on this is to have a lowers with paper work as pistols. Then pistol, rifle, pistol, pistol ,rifle it don't matter.

This is part of the reason I mill my own

That first part is why I ask. Let's say joe picks up a stripped other and mates it up with a pistol brace and has fun with it for awhile then decides he'd rather play sniper for awhile. While in sniper form that other gets borrowed for a time by a thief. Now there's the original paper trail as other and a current sniper when it's found. On its return joe realizes he ain't that good a shot and puts the brace back on the other.
Now technically he's done no wrong but the paper trail says otherwise. Just how does joe created the missing paperwork?
Hire an ambulance chaser to video the first buffer tube attachment and save the video for posterity? Sworn affadavits from his range buddies? Just what would satisfy the gun nazis as sufficient CYA?

Would it be possible for our "lawmakers" to actually focus on something that makes sense rather than tweak the Constitution to fit their personal opinions ?

Zim

Then to make even more confusing the definition of what a rifle is pretty clear, A pistol not so clear. It would be easy to screw up while building . Such as a pistol can not have a vertical grip but may have a angled grip. Having a vertical grip on a pistol makes it a SBR and you need a tax stamp.


Good Luck

To be very honest, I have a harder time every day without violating a law of some sort.
As each day goes by though, life in prison will be shorter.

Zim

Considering the BATF rules it becomes easier to understand just how the left fails to understand plain english, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

unless the overall length is >26 inches in which case it is a firearm and not a pistol or SBR

I agree that should cover it all , but scotus won't rule so we are stuck in legal limbo.

it should be simplified to over 26 long gun , under 26 short gun and be done with it. the SBR and AOW are so stupid.

gun mufflers should definitely be no more difficult to buy or make than a gun.

The fact that this conversation even needs to be had angers me greatly. Our founders are probably rolling over in their graves that we allow this to go on.

Where is this said "registry"? Other than NFA, I am unaware of any way to register a gun.

A worthy endeavour.
https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=4197

When you fill out the Form 4473 to buy the lower, this is 'defacto' registration, in that it, along with NICS, becomes a permanent record of you having purchased a "Rifle" a "Pistol" or an "Other". Yes, I know dealers are supposed to destroy those forms after 10 years, but they are browbeaten by the powers that be to keep everything forever or risk "enhanced enforcement and inspections".

If NICS wasn't backdoor registration, they wouldn't need the firearm particulars to verify the person's record is clear, right?

In the state of Mn a AR-15 is considered a handgun and you need either a permit to purchase or conceal carry to buy one. I would check with a FFL holder on how the law is in your state.

Call NICS what you want. It is not a registration. There is no way to my knowledge to register a gun as either a pistol or rifle. If you could register a gun, it would have to come with a title and a way to transfer said title, this exist in the NFA only to my knowledge. Can you show me where or what form I would need to "register " a gun and to what office and where.?

ok call it a federal legal form you signed acknowledging taking receipt of the gun in whatever form it was specified on said legal document.

that then sets a time and date at which a make model and SN# was a long gun, a hand gun or an other.

and if you purchased it as a long gun then made it a Pistol you are in violation of a federal law , no matter how stupid or ill educated the law it is the law until the court rules otherwise and so far it has not.

are you willing to stake your freedom on a 4473 not being a registry?


I intentional purchase all mine as "other" so that I can do as I please without having left a legal trail to it being a handgun or a long gun.