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the ballistics dont seem to add up... #6588110
08/04/19 09:59 PM
08/04/19 09:59 PM
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se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline OP
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First, let me state that I've never been in the U.S. military but know plenty of people who have, including some that have interesting "sources" developed over the years across various "unique" agencies of the federal government. I've killed plenty of deer and antelope with a .30 cal rifle (usually a through and through wounding situation) and have seen deer taken with .223 and there is often not a pass-through. I've emptied 30-round mags out of my .223 rifle in a very short order without any sort of adjusted trigger and yes it can be done but needs continued re-targeting of the rifle to cover a substantially larger area. So, how did this 21-year kid in Dayton without any supposedly tactical training get 9 kills and 27 other hits in the "less than a minute" before he was taken out? (I apologize for the seemingly coldness to anyone who had people killed or wounded in this or any of these attacks, that's not my purpose in any means). Did he have a larger drum mag? If not, he did this all with 1 30-rounder or maybe he got reloaded once before getting whacked...? How many of the wounded were pass-through hits? When do we every get detailed ballistics forensics on any of these shootings..? Going on 2 years since the Vegas attack and we're supposed to think all those rounds came from a dozen "bump stock" .223s and maybe a few .308s even though good video certainly sounds like at least 1 belt-fed MG was in play? Follow the science not the emotion, as sad as it is. The narratives can be faked but the faking the ballistics is a lot harder. We need FOIAs done on all mass-shootings, especially those where the supposed "lone" prep is dead or is in prison /criminal mental hospital. We deserve the real truths!!


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588114
08/04/19 10:03 PM
08/04/19 10:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 5,214
Crivitz WI
Sprung & Rusty Offline
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Sprung & Rusty  Offline
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Crivitz WI
Agreed.


No Jab.
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588147
08/04/19 10:39 PM
08/04/19 10:39 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 223
NE Iowa
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dogdown Offline
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NE Iowa
Good point.

Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588195
08/04/19 11:42 PM
08/04/19 11:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,213
NE
M
Marty B Offline
"arbitrary noob"
Marty B  Offline
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NE
I'm guessing massed targets.



You ever jump a pasture dam covered with ducks?


You only fire three shots ( plugged magazine) but there's such a wad of ducks, thirty or forty of them fall out if the sky.



I don't mean to sound ireverrent, our thoughts should be with the folks who lost loved ones.

Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588209
08/05/19 12:19 AM
08/05/19 12:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Online content
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Online Content
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Green County Wisconsin
I doubt you will ever get any detailed ballistics

I have to admit I have watched almost nothing about the recent shootings so I don't know what they used or other circumstances

but I can make a solid statement a minute is an eternity in shooting , the saying when seconds count the police are only minutes away is very real.

the only way we stop attacks before they claim many lives is to be the armed person there to shoot back. 1 in a crowd isn't enough 10% of every crowd should be persons prepared to shoot back.

consider it your civic responsibility to go armed , to keep trained , to server your jury duty and to vote these were all responsibilities laid out by our nations founders it is time we observe them all.

when these people have to be more concerned that the woman walking in the door behind them is going to put a bullet in their brain the second they start shooting than they will stop. we have seen that no amount of bans or laws stop killing or terror attacks , it may change the tools used that is all.

Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 08/05/19 12:28 AM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588214
08/05/19 12:57 AM
08/05/19 12:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,323
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline OP
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NonPCfed  Offline OP
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Quote
I'm guessing massed targets. You ever jump a pasture dam covered with ducks? You only fire three shots ( plugged magazine) but there's such a wad of ducks, thirty or forty of them fall out if the sky.


Yeah, Marty that's works with shotguns but the numbers aren't quite the same with rifles. 3 old 2 3/4 inch mag lead #4 was pushing nearly 200 projectiles down range with each round so almost 600 pellets to hit ducks and snow geese. Now I'm hearing this Dayton shooter "got off more than a hundred rounds" but the cops said he was whacked in a minute or less so again, did he have a drum mag or was using 30-rounders...? How many times are they saying he reloaded? The details do matter so again, when do we actually get to see the forensics with these shootings? Just because CNN said it was true doesn't mean its real. Write your Congressional people, get the FBI to actually declassify and release the real science. We deserve it.


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588215
08/05/19 12:57 AM
08/05/19 12:57 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,520
Champaign County, Ohio.
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KeithC Offline
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I lived within 6 miles or less of the Oregon District in Dayton, where the shooting took place, from 1988 to 2012, most of the time and have been there a lot. It is the old bar and party district for Dayton. It is extremely crowded. Thousands of people go there nightly. The sidewalks are packed solid with people. On Saturday nights, people frequently have to wait on the sidewalks to get into the bars, that are at full capacity. I am surprised more people were not shot and killed. If the shooter just shot straight down the sidewalks, he should have hit more people. There are so many people there, that it would be very hard for people to clear the sidewalks and streets quickly. A railroad berm and bridge entirely closes the West side of the Oregon District, except for the road and the North and South sides are lined with mostly continuous buildings, with a few, very narrow allies. Most people by 1:05am there were also very likely drunk and stoned, which definitely would make it harder for them to flee.

Keith

Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588219
08/05/19 01:32 AM
08/05/19 01:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,692
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adam m Offline
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The Dayton shooter had a drum mag, the El Paso shooter had the typical US version of AK not sure how many mags were used in that one.

Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588331
08/05/19 08:58 AM
08/05/19 08:58 AM
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Posts: 6,323
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NonPCfed Offline OP
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So the cops in Dayton got lucky with a head shot with their pistols on this guy within a minute (he was supposedly wearing body armor)...? Or suppose a neck hit severing the spinal cord or cutting both carotid and jugular would take out a guy quick. I don't think a femoral artery hit with a pistol round would bleed someone out fast enough not to let them keep shooting for a while. Or maybe someone scoped him in a minute's time with a rifle (most cops now seem to have AR s in their service cars).


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588383
08/05/19 10:28 AM
08/05/19 10:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,057
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Ok TWO things you won't hear on the reports.

1. It says 27 injured . How many of those injuries were people getting trampled? It didn't say 27 injured from gun fire.
2. THIS IS THE ONE NO ONE WILL SAY How many of the wounded were shot by the police? They were firing at a person that was standing in the middle of the busy street.

So don't wonder how the nut case shot that many people until the reports come out how many he actually shot.....

Last edited by jbyrd63; 08/05/19 01:57 PM.
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: jbyrd63] #6588409
08/05/19 10:55 AM
08/05/19 10:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,141
Michigan
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Ditchdiver Offline
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Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Ok TWO things you won't hear on the reports.

1. It says 27 injured . How many of those injuries were people getting trampled? It didn't say 27 injured from gun fire.
2. THIS IS THE ONE NO ONE WILL SAY How many of the wounded were shot by the police? They were firing at a person that was standing in the middle of the busy street.

So don't wonder how the nut case shot that many people until the reports come out how many he actually shot.....

Very good points.


When life gets me down..... you know hunting/trapping season is closed.
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588410
08/05/19 10:56 AM
08/05/19 10:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,376
Green County Wisconsin
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it is a terrible thing when people are senselessly killed and I am not wanting to subtract from the atrocity of it

but putting a little reality behind it.

we ran a test a few years ago with a 14 year old student and a 22 rifle 7 round mags and alternating targets at 25 yards

43-46 seconds on 3 runs was how long it took this boy to fire not just 21 rounds but 21 rounds all well on target from 75 feet the groups were actually only about the size of a softball on each steel target he was hitting the middle.

I don't want to sound crude but in one minute a trained person with good skills should have no less than 50 rounds on target especially if there was no reload and the distance never exceeded 50 feet.

there is a sport in Norway where the shooters fire as fast as they can from 300 meters and only hits count they only use 5 round magazines and they run military and civilian side by side the round and hit count with the semi auto rifle is nearly identical to their civilian counter parts they also average a hit about every 2 seconds in most squads , but as I recall the record is 21 hits in 25 seconds when they get past their forth magazine they start single loading rounds.

the record holder used what would today be an antique rifle model 1898 with a fixed non removable magazine.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588411
08/05/19 10:57 AM
08/05/19 10:57 AM
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Posts: 345
ontario
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grampy Offline
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ontario
Just read a claim that he had 2 drum magazines.

Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588518
08/05/19 02:06 PM
08/05/19 02:06 PM
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Posts: 13,057
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Originally Posted by NonPCfed
So the cops in Dayton got lucky with a head shot with their pistols on this guy within a minute (he was supposedly wearing body armor)...? Or suppose a neck hit severing the spinal cord or cutting both carotid and jugular would take out a guy quick. I don't think a femoral artery hit with a pistol round would bleed someone out fast enough not to let them keep shooting for a while. Or maybe someone scoped him in a minute's time with a rifle (most cops now seem to have AR s in their service cars).



I would say regardless where he was hit he went down. Nuts that play video games never realize the shock of being shot. Plus why would they help him once he was shot. Remember the shoot out in LA years ago. The 2 bank robbers brought the LAPD to it's knees. Even made a movie about it. One was head shot and died on the spot . The other one was hit in the leg and had photos of him laying on the ground but no aid was given and he bled out.

I don't understand how or WHY any of these guys stand trial. In texas shoot him in the head even if his hands are up . He just emptied a clip in a crowd full of kids school shopping...... Now millions of dollars and thousands of hours will be spent on a trial.

Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588597
08/05/19 04:13 PM
08/05/19 04:13 PM
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Art S Offline
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There was a woman shopping at the El Paso Walmart named Adriana Quezada that claims she
saw 4 gunmen dressed in black shooting , you can see her interview here
It's down the article as a video , the article is parroting the official story but includes an eye witness account
that goes against the story , weird . You can't find her interview on you tube or anywhere else for some reason
even though she has been quoted on a few sites, AP, FOX , PBS


Someone is lying , haven't seen her debunked on the MSM .
Something stinks .If she is lying someone should debunk what she is saying instead of trying to make the video of her disappear .

Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588613
08/05/19 04:43 PM
08/05/19 04:43 PM
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Posts: 645
N/E Il. NOT Chicago!!
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squacks Offline
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N/E Il. NOT Chicago!!
Define, "false flag".

Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588621
08/05/19 04:53 PM
08/05/19 04:53 PM
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OH
Catch22 Offline
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Dang Art, that is weird as heck...


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588737
08/05/19 07:56 PM
08/05/19 07:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
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upstateNY Online content
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I was in my truck listening to the radio when this came out and they did say more than one shooter.Thats why I was surprised when later on TV they said they had THE shooter in custody.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: squacks] #6588742
08/05/19 08:10 PM
08/05/19 08:10 PM
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Posts: 1,934
SE WI
DuxDawg Offline
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Originally Posted by squacks
Define, "false flag".

"A false flag is a covert operation designed to deceive; the deception creates the appearance of a particular party, group, or nation being responsible for some activity, disguising the actual source of responsibility."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
"We are fast approaching... rule by brute force."
-Ayn Rand
Re: the ballistics dont seem to add up... [Re: NonPCfed] #6588747
08/05/19 08:22 PM
08/05/19 08:22 PM
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Posts: 15,520
Champaign County, Ohio.
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KeithC Offline
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Even under the best of circumstances, most people make terrible witnesses. Under high stress situations most people have no clue what happened at all. Their brains just don't function quickly or accurately enough.

Keith

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