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EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? #6591298
08/09/19 01:01 PM
08/09/19 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,099
New York
N
nyhuntfish Offline OP
trapper
nyhuntfish  Offline OP
trapper
N

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,099
New York
I didn't find the actual notice, but this is bad right?

https://www.trappersreport.com/stor...s-to-kill-foxes-and-coyotes_892019130018


Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591312
08/09/19 01:38 PM
08/09/19 01:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,751
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,751
Central, SD
M44s have been used for many years nothing new, don't buy into the hype it a very regulate way to control predators in less populated areas.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591329
08/09/19 02:34 PM
08/09/19 02:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,136
B61-12 vicinity, MO
T
TreedaBlackdog Offline
trapper
TreedaBlackdog  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,136
B61-12 vicinity, MO
Absolutely NOT bad. It is a very effective tool with extremely controlled situational use. I would guess more coyotes and foxes are killed by automobiles in every state as compared to those selectively removed with M44s.

Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591342
08/09/19 02:56 PM
08/09/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
be a lot easier to catch heavy westerns if they were banned

I think its time to put an end to federal wildlife services. whats the cost per coyote up to now? 7-800 dollars? put a 500 dollar bounty on them nation wide (a hundred would buy a new 4 wd pickup again) and see how many get killed


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591566
08/09/19 07:37 PM
08/09/19 07:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
B
brianmall Offline
trapper
brianmall  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
I wish they would help me out with all these hawks

Last edited by brianmall; 08/09/19 07:38 PM.
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591573
08/09/19 07:46 PM
08/09/19 07:46 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 437
Middle Georgia
zoozoo400 Offline
trapper
zoozoo400  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 437
Middle Georgia
Does the trap have any adverse ecological effects? Aside from death of the targeted animal of course LOL

Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: zoozoo400] #6591603
08/09/19 08:39 PM
08/09/19 08:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,456
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,456
Wheaton Ks
Originally Posted by zoozoo400
Does the trap have any adverse ecological effects? Aside from death of the targeted animal of course LOL


No! They are a spring loaded devise that throws the cyanyde into the target animals mouth. There it mixes with saliva and causes death very quickly. Very effecient tool that is strickly regulated.


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591613
08/09/19 08:56 PM
08/09/19 08:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
Apparently not always into the "target" animals mouth.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591636
08/09/19 09:31 PM
08/09/19 09:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
M
mainer Offline
trapper
mainer  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
Originally Posted by nyhuntfish
I didn't find the actual notice, but this is bad right?

https://www.trappersreport.com/stor...s-to-kill-foxes-and-coyotes_892019130018

If you came across this article from the Guardian, a UK publication, without any background about M44s, and the first thing you saw was the title "Trump administration authorizes 'cyanide bombs' to kill wild animals" then yeah this would be bad. And that's the point.

It's the bread and butter of the animal rights movement and their networks across the globe. As the Guardian self-righteously admits: "in our natural world, we refuse to turn away from the climate catastrophe and species extinction. For The Guardian, reporting on the environment is a priority. We give reporting on climate, nature and pollution the prominence it deserves..."

Their source for this article is the Center for Biological Diversity here in the US, a major pain in the arse for trappers and hunters. In short, it's a hit piece spoon fed to the Guardian almost verbatim from the Center for Biological Diversity. They have money, connections and resources that we don't.

Note: I can't and won't link to the August 7th press release from the Center for Biological Diversity because it violates forum rules, but you can look it up yourselves if you wish.

Last edited by mainer; 08/09/19 10:03 PM.

"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591638
08/09/19 09:34 PM
08/09/19 09:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,459
Oregon
H
H2ORat Offline
trapper
H2ORat  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,459
Oregon
Too many non-targets where i live -- not a huge fan. Usda in our area seems to have this as their only response

Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: lee steinmeyer] #6591653
08/09/19 09:58 PM
08/09/19 09:58 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 437
Middle Georgia
zoozoo400 Offline
trapper
zoozoo400  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 437
Middle Georgia
Originally Posted by lee steinmeyer
Originally Posted by zoozoo400
Does the trap have any adverse ecological effects? Aside from death of the targeted animal of course LOL


No! They are a spring loaded devise that throws the cyanyde into the target animals mouth. There it mixes with saliva and causes death very quickly. Very effecient tool that is strickly regulated.


I can see why it's strictly reg'd. Clever idea, though... I can't say I'm a fan, but every tool has it's place!

Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591735
08/10/19 12:50 AM
08/10/19 12:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 958
eastern washington
B
BillyTraps Offline
trapper
BillyTraps  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 958
eastern washington
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M44_(cyanide_device)

Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: danny clifton] #6591741
08/10/19 01:32 AM
08/10/19 01:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,153
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,153
Alaska and Washington State
Originally Posted by danny clifton
be a lot easier to catch heavy westerns if they were banned

I think its time to put an end to federal wildlife services. whats the cost per coyote up to now? 7-800 dollars? put a 500 dollar bounty on them nation wide (a hundred would buy a new 4 wd pickup again) and see how many get killed

x2!!!


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: lee steinmeyer] #6591816
08/10/19 07:55 AM
08/10/19 07:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,454
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
W
walleyed Offline
trapper
walleyed  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,454
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
Originally Posted by lee steinmeyer
Originally Posted by zoozoo400
Does the trap have any adverse ecological effects? Aside from death of the targeted animal of course LOL


No! They are a spring loaded devise that throws the cyanyde into the target animals mouth. There it mixes with saliva and causes death very quickly. Very effecient tool that is strickly regulated.


I'm not against the use of M-44's, cyanide guns, coyote getters, grab & die rigs, or whatever.

But,

What about secondary mortality of non-targets

which feed upon the carcasses of animals killed by these devices ?

Seems to me that the cyanide poisoning & subsequent death of non-targets

which scavenge the carcasses of the original target were a major factor

for cyanide guns, etc being outlawed by federal legislation in the 1970's.

Just playing devil's advocate here so don't bite my head off.

w

Last edited by walleyed; 08/10/19 08:15 PM.

"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association
Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters

I Support Non-Resident Trapping



Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591826
08/10/19 08:19 AM
08/10/19 08:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
Cyanide guns have never been outlawed so far as I know. I know some were being used mid 70's in Colorado. Those were fired with a 38 case and the cyanide in place of the bullet. They have been used with a spring for a long while. Last I knew the guy setting them not only had to put out signs he had to have an antidote kit in reach while setting them. Had to pass an applicators test. There are rules. Like private property only. Guys set them and they don't get checked for weeks sometimes. Its not uncommon to find an old one that's been in place for years. I could go on about some of the predator control programs run by usda in particular, and some counties, but there is no point. Most people think if its the government doing it then they know what they are doing. Professionals. Wildlife biologists.

That's why the cost per coyote killed, or beaver killed, to the taxpayer, is in the several hundreds of dollars. Maybe thousands by now. Some of you computer literate guys should be able to look up cost of programs dived by the number of animals killed.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591834
08/10/19 08:34 AM
08/10/19 08:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,456
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,456
Wheaton Ks
My dad used cyanyde guns from well before I was born in 47. I grew up with them, and one day one went off and shot a pretty little 38 sized hole in the center of dads palm. He was a better part of a half mile away when it happened, and walked back to the house, where mom had a fit about taking him to the doc. Dad said, "I just walked a half mile from where it happened, if it was gonna kill me, it would have already happened"!

As for other things dying off the carcasses of the coyotes, I never saw one shred of evidence. I skinned many animals killed with getter guns, and believe that most of this is false info, designed by those that don't believe we should harm a blade of grass, but go mow their lawns every three days!


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: nyhuntfish] #6591862
08/10/19 09:41 AM
08/10/19 09:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,751
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,751
Central, SD
Might some confusion between cyanide (single use) and the problems they had with 1080 poison for lacing whole carcasses! 1080 is still used but is limited to sheep collars as far as I know, again single use collars.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: danny clifton] #6591892
08/10/19 10:21 AM
08/10/19 10:21 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,492
Garden,Michigan
B
Buck (Zandra) Offline
trapper
Buck (Zandra)  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,492
Garden,Michigan
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Cyanide guns have never been outlawed so far as I know. I know some were being used mid 70's in Colorado. Those were fired with a 38 case and the cyanide in place of the bullet. They have been used with a spring for a long while. Last I knew the guy setting them not only had to put out signs he had to have an antidote kit in reach while setting them. Had to pass an applicators test. There are rules. Like private property only. Guys set them and they don't get checked for weeks sometimes. Its not uncommon to find an old one that's been in place for years. I could go on about some of the predator control programs run by usda in particular, and some counties, but there is no point. Most people think if its the government doing it then they know what they are doing. Professionals. Wildlife biologists.

That's why the cost per coyote killed, or beaver killed, to the taxpayer, is in the several hundreds of dollars. Maybe thousands by now. Some of you computer literate guys should be able to look up cost of programs dived by the number of animals killed.
Your charge that sometimes they don't get checked for weeks is the same charge they make on traps.Apparently ,only govt programs are open to these charges.Privately run programs apparently are all above reproach.

Last edited by Buck (Zandra); 08/10/19 11:09 AM. Reason: clarify

Buck(formely known as Zandra)
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: walleyed] #6591897
08/10/19 10:26 AM
08/10/19 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934
SE WI
DuxDawg Offline
trapper
DuxDawg  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934
SE WI
Originally Posted by walleyed
What about secondary mortality of non-targets which feed upon the carcasses of these devices ?Seems to me that the cyanide poisoning & subsequent death of non-targets which scavenge the carcasses of the original target were a major factor for cyanide guns, etc being outlawed by federal legislation in the 1970's.


Could you be any more clueless????


Please look into things before skying your colossal stupidity.

Prussic acid aka B-17 aka Laetrile aka hydrogen cyanide is a NATURALLY OCCURRING organic compound that DISSIPATES AT 78.1F. It is not persistent in the environment and poses no long term risks.

Almost like those who came up with the M-44's knew what they were doing. Unlike the majority of people commenting on the internet these days...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide

https://www.britannica.com/science/hydrogen-cyanide#ref240237


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
"We are fast approaching... rule by brute force."
-Ayn Rand
Re: EPA keeps killing animals with cyanide? [Re: Law Dog] #6591905
08/10/19 10:44 AM
08/10/19 10:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,209
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
W
wy.wolfer Offline
trapper
wy.wolfer  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,209
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
Originally Posted by Law Dog
Might some confusion between cyanide (single use) and the problems they had with 1080 poison for lacing whole carcasses! 1080 is still used but is limited to sheep collars as far as I know, again single use collars.

Unfortunately there are more than a few sheepmen here in the west that still have several lifetimes supply of 1080. Big sheep operation just to the west of me that still uses it regularly and I find dead coyotes laying on the property we hunt and manage.

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