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Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #6596177
08/16/19 06:55 PM
08/16/19 06:55 PM
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Posts: 5,126
Arkansas
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J Staton Offline
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Arkansas
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
Originally Posted by gryhkl
Are than ANY limits, such as; background checks, waiting periods, mag capacity limits.....that are negotiable?

The reason I ask is, that with around ninety percent of Americans in favor of some greater restrictions being placed upon the possession and types of firearms we may have,(including most republicans) it is hard to believe that the fear is not with the politicians who most count on votes to retain their jobs. If there comes a point at which the "writing is on the wall" and laws will be passed, I think groups like the NRA had better play a part in the process or become irrelevant and give our politicians a feeling of free-reign.


background checks , first you must understand that >90% of all of this tiny minority of mass shooters passed a background some outright because they had no criminal history and others passed the check because a government employee was complacent in doing their job reporting the crime to the database in a timely manner.

some examples are the Texas church shooter , the Charleston SC church shooter

we have background checks George H Bush and a the legislature made that concession , a check so that no dealer should be selling a gun to a known prohibited person.

the NRA was very much involved in that concession , and the legislation stated that prohibited persons attempting to buy a firearm would be prosecuted how ever none or almost none ever were and after a time prohibited persons realized how many "reporting errors" the courts were making and since there was no repercussions for trying they could test it any time.

so what we have is a colossally broken list that all the parties involved seem to be completely unwilling to update or fix they want another set of further infringements on the law abiding that will do nothing to prevent crime.

The president has the authority to order all federal courts to review all convictions today backwards to insure that no miss reporting happened.
Congress or the Federal court system also has the authority to order such a review.
likewise the Governors , Attorney generals and the state legislatures all have the authority to order a review.

yet no one reviews , they don't say , darn our data was wrong several times we should really be going back and checking data to make sure that the list isn't faulty from miss or lack of reporting.

States were given the Authority to regulate handguns as they wished in 1976 many as an example Iowa , Nebraska , Minnesota ,Michigan , New York ,California , Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey , North Carolina , Rhode Island , Hawaii, Maryland and Washington DC all require a license to purchase , a firearms ownership ID or license or have a registration that effectively does the same thing most of them also require this for a semi automatic rifle also.

yet nearly all homicide by gun is handgun and much of it in those very states.

Waiting periods don't work people don't stop off on the way to the store to kill some one and buy a gun then go murder them , It just isn't happening.

Magazine capacity , we spend 10 years proving it had nothing to do with crime , most of the guns used to murder hardly hold more than 10 any way. we now have strong evidence that suggest Victims are more likely to be handicapped by magazine capacity than assailants.


what we have is a government that said give us this and we will keep you safe and we gave them the tools they asked for and now after they Neglected the tools they have they have come back to ask for more tools that we can only expect they will also neglect to use.

what is negotiable is where every person who falsely fills out a 4473 or is a prohibited person filling out a 4473 is logged recorded and prosecuted even if first try is a 100 dollar fine and a you have officially been warned don't try this again or it is 5 years.
a full review of all convictions starting today and working backwards till 1989 for a start.

if your going to have a "comprehensive" background check you must start by having a comprehensive list or it will do no good start there , it requires no no legislation just what they government already promised it would do and Failed.

the reality is that the government Lies they may lie with the best intentions but they will not be there to protect you , they just can't , they won't tell you the truth ans say you need to take care of you.

then they hide behind a history of lies demanding they be given greater and greater authority in order to do what they can not do.

it i a perpetual self fulfilling prophecy , a government asks for power it is given , it is squandered , wasted , and misused then the answer is always that it needs more power , more authority , more , more , more




What he said.


1 Samuel 17:45-47
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: danny clifton] #6596240
08/16/19 07:45 PM
08/16/19 07:45 PM
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Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
bill Clinton signed insta check into law


you are correct , it was in congress but never came up for a vote in 1991 Chuck Schumer reintroduced it in February of 1993 and Bill signed it November 30th ,1993.

the insta check came as part of the Brady Handgun act.

I was remembering the 4473 for my first new rifle in spring 1993 but they didn't call it in at that time yet.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596303
08/16/19 08:57 PM
08/16/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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in 1989 George H Bush did sign an executive order prohibiting import of arms unless they had a "sporting purpose".


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: gryhkl] #6596306
08/16/19 09:03 PM
08/16/19 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,529
SW PA
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white marlin Offline
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Originally Posted by gryhkl
Wow, way over the top IMHO.


why was dragger's comment "way over the top"?


"We didn't come all the way out here just to 'feel them on the line.' "
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: gryhkl] #6596312
08/16/19 09:06 PM
08/16/19 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,529
SW PA
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white marlin Offline
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SW PA
Originally Posted by gryhkl
Are than ANY limits, such as; background checks, waiting periods, mag capacity limits.....that are negotiable?

The reason I ask is, that with around ninety percent of Americans in favor of some greater restrictions being placed upon the possession and types of firearms we may have,(including most republicans) it is hard to believe that the fear is not with the politicians who most count on votes to retain their jobs. If there comes a point at which the "writing is on the wall" and laws will be passed, I think groups like the NRA had better play a part in the process or become irrelevant and give our politicians a feeling of free-reign.


the same exact argument could be used against the First Amendment. (take a poll on college campii about "hate speech")

the Bill of Rights was designed to PREVENT the Tyranny of the Masses (or pure democracy)

Last edited by white marlin; 08/16/19 09:32 PM.

"We didn't come all the way out here just to 'feel them on the line.' "
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596328
08/16/19 09:30 PM
08/16/19 09:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,053
New Hampshire
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Nessmuck Offline
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New Hampshire
Hey James....are you gonnah be betting again in Nov 2020 ...and try to win back your 50.00 loss..... Are you taking the cheese ?


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596330
08/16/19 09:33 PM
08/16/19 09:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,835
Anchorage, Alaska
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James Offline OP
"Minka"
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Oh, I dunno, Nessmuck. Will you take the bet if I offer it?

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: Nessmuck] #6596363
08/16/19 09:59 PM
08/16/19 09:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,137
Rock Springs, WI
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Zim Offline
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The question which bothers me more than any other is "what has changed?" Many of us older members on here remember shooting on the high school rifle team, going rabbit hunting after school (sometimes with one of the teachers), going duck hunting before school in the morning and so forth. The question of a school shooting did not have a trace on anyone's mind.
At what point did that cross over to insanity? I suppose there is no definitive answer to said question, but something sure as H made things different.

Zim

Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596373
08/16/19 10:09 PM
08/16/19 10:09 PM
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Arkansas
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J Staton Offline
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Technology kept kids indoors instead of outdoors. Our entertainment was actual not virtual.
Add to that the disregard for life and the destruction of Hope. The fruits of the tree that we the people have planted are coming to bear. I expect it only gets worse.


1 Samuel 17:45-47
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596379
08/16/19 10:15 PM
08/16/19 10:15 PM
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white marlin Offline
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Zim,

my (non-professional) opinion is that things began to change when you could no longer settle peer "issues" mano-a-mano in school. in other words: the imposition of liberalism.

think about it: the typical issue was a bully. how was it historically resolved? eventually, the kid who was being picked on, had enough and clobbered the bully. end of issue.

then, (with "zero tolerance" firmly in place) ...the kid who was being picked on was expelled, too. punished for standing up for yourself!

what does that do? it fosters resentment and the feeling of being a victim.

eventually, they "lose it" and you have Columbine. You have Sandy Hook. You have Parkland.

Last edited by white marlin; 08/17/19 01:38 PM.

"We didn't come all the way out here just to 'feel them on the line.' "
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596387
08/16/19 10:21 PM
08/16/19 10:21 PM
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New Hampshire
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Nessmuck Offline
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New Hampshire
Originally Posted by James
Oh, I dunno, Nessmuck. Will you take the bet if I offer it?

Jim


Yes Sir !


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: Zim] #6596411
08/16/19 10:45 PM
08/16/19 10:45 PM
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SEPA
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Originally Posted by Zim
The question which bothers me more than any other is "what has changed?" Many of us older members on here remember shooting on the high school rifle team, going rabbit hunting after school (sometimes with one of the teachers), going duck hunting before school in the morning and so forth. The question of a school shooting did not have a trace on anyone's mind.
At what point did that cross over to insanity? I suppose there is no definitive answer to said question, but something sure as H made things different.

Zim



In my opinion what has changed is the advent of the twenty-four hour news cycle in the late eighties and early nineties and the left's nearly complete domination of it. They recognized it for the extremely powerful tool that it is and have used it to disseminate propagandized liberal ideology to the masses. It is working. Between that and their domination of our education system they are influencing entire generations.

The left also dominates the internet. Google, is the world's most popular search engine. They use algorithms to steer people in certain directions. I saw an expert testify in the senate recently that Google was responsible for swaying millions to vote for Clinton in the last election. Facebook, one of the largest social media sites on the planet, is also dominated by liberals and they use censorship to suppress conservative ideology.

The left has figured out to how ro effectively get their message out to the masses and legally suppress opposing views. They are winning the battle for the hearts and minds of America.





Eh...wot?

Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596442
08/16/19 11:48 PM
08/16/19 11:48 PM
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USA MN
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They will never go door to door ,But they will make you a felon for keeping one and eventually they will get as many as they want


Never Confuse Stupid With Crazy
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: gryhkl] #6596592
08/17/19 08:38 AM
08/17/19 08:38 AM
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eastern WV
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eastern WV
The left keeps calling for background checks, most of the info that would stop someone from buying a gun is off limits ( mental problems, sealed files) due to Dr. patient confidentiality, and take Nicolas Cruz, the state of Georgia was at fault, the state was paying money to schools for kids not going straight to jail after graduation, even after 26 trips by the cops to his house, he was still able to pass the background check. Its a people problem, bad people using guns as tools. As far as the AR buyback, there were 10 million AR's in the country the day Obama was elected to his 2nd term, that number exceeds 20 million today of those 13 have been used for mass shootings, so I'm betting the percentage of Glocks used in mass shootings is much higher, either way. Why is it every time a mass shooting occurs, the left blames the people who didn't do it?
RR

Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596595
08/17/19 08:43 AM
08/17/19 08:43 AM
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Iowa
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The real problem in this country IS the left.

Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: Zim] #6596598
08/17/19 08:45 AM
08/17/19 08:45 AM
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eastern WV
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Originally Posted by Zim
The question which bothers me more than any other is "what has changed?" Many of us older members on here remember shooting on the high school rifle team, going rabbit hunting after school (sometimes with one of the teachers), going duck hunting before school in the morning and so forth. The question of a school shooting did not have a trace on anyone's mind.
At what point did that cross over to insanity? I suppose there is no definitive answer to said question, but something sure as H made things different.

Zim

I graduated in 1977, every truck in the student parking lot had a rifle in the back glass, the first school shooting happened in 1999, in the early 80's, the mainstream media championed modern parenting, you did not spank kids, you reasoned with them, teachers could no longer discipline them. kids grew up not knowing what respect was. If you grow up never facing consequences for your actions, you always think you never did anything wrong.
RR

Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596906
08/17/19 06:57 PM
08/17/19 06:57 PM
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Virginia
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52Carl Offline
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Too many fatherless homes these days. Mom can't keep up with the kids. Busy single moms look for the school system to raise their kids. The schools "raise" their kids alright... They are worse at that then they are at educating them.

Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: bowhunter27295] #6596963
08/17/19 08:29 PM
08/17/19 08:29 PM
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Illinois
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ratbrain Offline
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Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
Originally Posted by Ridge Runner1960
The left keeps calling for background checks, most of the info that would stop someone from buying a gun is off limits ( mental problems, sealed files) due to Dr. patient confidentiality, and take Nicolas Cruz, the state of Georgia was at fault, the state was paying money to schools for kids not going straight to jail after graduation, even after 26 trips by the cops to his house, he was still able to pass the background check. Its a people problem, bad people using guns as tools. As far as the AR buyback, there were 10 million AR's in the country the day Obama was elected to his 2nd term, that number exceeds 20 million today of those 13 have been used for mass shootings, so I'm betting the percentage of Glocks used in mass shootings is much higher, either way. Why is it every time a mass shooting occurs, the left blames the people who didn't do it?
RR


Mass shooting happens every weekend in Chicago. Funny, I never see the news covering that.

Wonder why? crazy

LOL and IL has some of the toughest laws in the U.S. regarding firearms. OH YEAH criminals don't care about the laws!
And I do not know about your state but many states (including IL) report "clear and present danger" patients and severely mentally ill patients to the back ground check.

Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6596964
08/17/19 08:32 PM
08/17/19 08:32 PM
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Illinois
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SOOOO Everytime the politicians say "expand the background check" or "toughen it up" I wonder what they'll want to add to it??? From an Illinois point of view.


Last edited by ratbrain; 08/17/19 08:34 PM.
Re: Speaking even more of assault rifles [Re: James] #6597716
08/18/19 11:04 PM
08/18/19 11:04 PM
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52Carl Offline
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Current laws won't stop mass shootings. No new laws will stop mass shootings.
Just as you cannot fix stupid, you cannot fix crazy.
Stupid politicians are trying to fix crazy by being stupid.
It is sad to say this, but these horrific incidents are a most unfortunate cost of Freedom.
Under our current form of government, without the 2nd amendment, we will no longer remain a free nation. And guess what. We will still have mass shootings. More of them likely, since there will be zero threat of reprisal from armed citizens.

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