No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Joe Goodman Prints
Please support Joe Goodman because he supports us with donations

Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Florida whitetails? #6598978
08/20/19 06:41 PM
08/20/19 06:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,768
Ontario, Canada
S
slydogx Offline OP
trapper
slydogx  Offline OP
trapper
S

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,768
Ontario, Canada
I was always under the impression that Florida deer where on the small side, but I saw several good sized deer several times while at Disney world. Saw some really big ones under the monorail tracks near Epcot.
Is the whole "southern deer are small" thing just a myth?


Just happy to be here.
Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6598985
08/20/19 07:07 PM
08/20/19 07:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,799
Rock Springs, WI
Z
Zim Offline
trapper
Zim  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,799
Rock Springs, WI
Well I am sure I will be corrected by a dozen guys but here is my opinion.
If a whitetail in the south has access to good forage, minerals and so forth he can obtain
real good antler growth. He will never obtain the body size and strength it takes to survive in the north.
Likewise a northern deer will not do well transplanted to the south as their body can not tolerate the heat.
Kind of like humans.LOL grin

Zim

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: Zim] #6598987
08/20/19 07:15 PM
08/20/19 07:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 703
Ashley county Ar.
B
boncoon Offline
trapper
boncoon  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 703
Ashley county Ar.
I believe I read there are 5 different sub species of whitetail deer in the US. If I remember right Florida has some of the smallest.

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6598990
08/20/19 07:18 PM
08/20/19 07:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,108
carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man Offline
trapper
The Possum Man  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,108
carolina, Alabama
I live about 20 minutes from the florida line. A few mature bucks might barely break 200lbs around here in south alabama. I havent seen many over 200 and most are in the 185ish lb range. Once you get into north florida they are about the same size but get progressively smaller the more south you get. When i hunted in kansas i killed mature bucks in the 250lb range and the does were massive compared to the deer i was used to hunting here. North alabama can produce some decent size deer but nothing like kansas body size. Where I am all the public land (national forest) is just lousy with florida hunters coming to kill bigger deer.

Down here when i kill deer i can load them into the back of my truck by myself. When i hunted in kansas i built a plywood ramp and a winch to load them alone.


"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6598997
08/20/19 07:23 PM
08/20/19 07:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,768
Ontario, Canada
S
slydogx Offline OP
trapper
slydogx  Offline OP
trapper
S

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,768
Ontario, Canada
First, what Zim says makes a whole lot of sense... I tend to agree.

But, I was a bit floored by the body size of some of the deer I saw. I remember.watching hunting shows back in the 80s where hosts would shoot these little tiny deer in the Everglades and then brag on it like it was a Saskatchewan Whopper lol. These deer would have been considered a fair size here and we have some big deer.


Just happy to be here.
Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599012
08/20/19 07:34 PM
08/20/19 07:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,402
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,402
Georgia
Take a look at just how much good topsoil, fertilizer, and irrigation is put down in urban areas. Southern deer on historic pine flatwoods and scrub were small. Those same deer at Epcot are eating high on the hog.

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599067
08/20/19 08:45 PM
08/20/19 08:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,402
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,402
Georgia
Matter of fact I've scooped up more massive wall hangers as road kill inside the perimeter of Atlanta than I've ever seen in the woods

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599094
08/20/19 09:06 PM
08/20/19 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,414
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
trapper
5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,414
Virginia
Key deer are the true midgets.

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599142
08/20/19 09:43 PM
08/20/19 09:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 125
Georgia
W
Wiz Offline
trapper
Wiz  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 125
Georgia
In general Bergmann's Rule is that as you get closer to the equator animals become smaller. The Key Deer are the small deer that many think of when they think of deer in the south.

However, as you travel across the Coastal Plain in the lower productivity scrub of Blackjack Oak, Bluejack Oak, Water Oak, etc., nutrition really declines. Body and rack sizes decrease as a result. I remember seeing a facebook post a few years ago where the public was running a guy down that killed a ~75 inch 6 point from Ossabaw Island during a draw hunt. Everyone was saying he needed to let that deer walk because it was small and it would get bigger if he let it age. What these folks didn't realize was that 6 point was a trophy buck for that part of the state and it was aged at 6.5 years.

There was a neat study done over about a 20 year period at Mississippi State that questioned genetics of deer among 2 areas of Mississippi that produced different sized bucks. One area always produced smaller bucks than the other and was deemed to have "inferior genetics". The other was in the Delta where there were many larger bucks. After giving offspring of both of these areas the same diet for 2-3 generations, the "inferior genetics" deer got just as big as the ones from the Delta. This study really showed that the true benefits of better management of deer populations and their habitat likely won't be seen for a 10-15 year period once the population is balanced and habitat is allowed to recover. Fertilizers and such can really help that process as is seen in many farming areas.


Last edited by Wiz; 08/20/19 09:47 PM.
Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599148
08/20/19 09:47 PM
08/20/19 09:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,488
Central, SD
Law Dog Online content
trapper
Law Dog  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,488
Central, SD
Smaller deer in the Black Hills high numbers and poor food source in many places, it's nothing to see 500 deer on the way to my turkey spot is some areas when the ditches green up!


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: Wiz] #6599162
08/20/19 10:03 PM
08/20/19 10:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,402
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,402
Georgia
Originally Posted by Wiz
In general Bergmann's Rule is that as you get closer to the equator animals become smaller. The Key Deer are the small deer that many think of when they think of deer in the south.

However, as you travel across the Coastal Plain in the lower productivity scrub of Blackjack Oak, Bluejack Oak, Water Oak, etc., nutrition really declines. Body and rack sizes decrease as a result. I remember seeing a facebook post a few years ago where the public was running a guy down that killed a ~75 inch 6 point from Ossabaw Island during a draw hunt. Everyone was saying he needed to let that deer walk because it was small and it would get bigger if he let it age. What these folks didn't realize was that 6 point was a trophy buck for that part of the state and it was aged at 6.5 years.

There was a neat study done over about a 20 year period at Mississippi State that questioned genetics of deer among 2 areas of Mississippi that produced different sized bucks. One area always produced smaller bucks than the other and was deemed to have "inferior genetics". The other was in the Delta where there were many larger bucks. After giving offspring of both of these areas the same diet for 2-3 generations, the "inferior genetics" deer got just as big as the ones from the Delta. This study really showed that the true benefits of better management of deer populations and their habitat likely won't be seen for a 10-15 year period once the population is balanced and habitat is allowed to recover. Fertilizers and such can really help that process as is seen in many farming areas.



Just what I've seen in my lifetime but it's obvious deer are being better managed and are eating better across the south. Used to be big fours and sixes were something to be proud of and a buck seventy five was a heavy one.
I see 200 pounders killed every year and big eights and tens the norm.

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599323
08/21/19 07:36 AM
08/21/19 07:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Florida
H
Hanger Offline
trapper
Hanger  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Florida
Disney is a deer sanctuary

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599328
08/21/19 07:38 AM
08/21/19 07:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Florida
H
Hanger Offline
trapper
Hanger  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Florida
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599330
08/21/19 07:40 AM
08/21/19 07:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Florida
H
Hanger Offline
trapper
Hanger  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Florida
This is a good size central Florida deer thatís on my property

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599332
08/21/19 07:41 AM
08/21/19 07:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,488
Central, SD
Law Dog Online content
trapper
Law Dog  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,488
Central, SD
Maybe talking about the Key deer?


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599350
08/21/19 07:58 AM
08/21/19 07:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 807
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
trapper
ky_coyote_hunter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 807
Kentucky
I was in the Panama City Wal-Mart a few years ago in the sporting goods dept. and noticed how small the deer mounts were....The bucks had volleyball width basket racks, and after seeing some live deer in the wild up near Bonifay, they definitely run pretty small, (at least in the panhandle) compared to the KY, MO, IL deer I've hunted.


Member NRA, FTA, and The UTK.
Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599481
08/21/19 10:26 AM
08/21/19 10:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,108
carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man Offline
trapper
The Possum Man  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,108
carolina, Alabama
I will go along with what people are saying, the deer are growing larger (at least rack size) around me. When i was a kid there were and still are tons of deer. But if you killed a buck that broke 100 inches gross, you killed a decent even trophy buck. Anything with more than 8 pts was considered rare. The state changed the bag limits to 2 a day a doe and a buck for several years. That went on all through my teenage years. Now that i moved back home 15 years later the bag limits have been cut back a bit on private property and back to normal for state land. I have been getting trail cam pics and seeing lots of actually BIG bucks being killed in this area. Some i wouldnt have dreamed could be from this part of the country. Heck ive got an 8pt behind my house that is bigger than any i EVER seen while hunting as a teenager, and he is only 4 years old.

Over population, which is what we had 20 years ago, can definately cause small bucks. Like previously stated it takes about 15 years before the results start to really show of herd management. I have definately seen the results of trying to manage deer herds for better results. I know of several really nice bucks within a few miles of me and had trail cam pics of them. 20 years ago that didnt happen, but you could see 15 deer in a herd walk out in front of you in certain areas.


"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599542
08/21/19 12:25 PM
08/21/19 12:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,934
SE Georgia
S
Swamp Wolf Offline
trapper
Swamp Wolf  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,934
SE Georgia
15 years before you see results of managing deer? Really? How many deer have you ever heard of that lived to 15 years in the wild?


Thank God For Your Blessings!

Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: slydogx] #6599554
08/21/19 12:52 PM
08/21/19 12:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,488
Central, SD
Law Dog Online content
trapper
Law Dog  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,488
Central, SD
Dad lived in Charleston, SC always said the deer were smaller then the MI deer he grew up around.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Florida whitetails? [Re: Swamp Wolf] #6599578
08/21/19 01:52 PM
08/21/19 01:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,108
carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man Offline
trapper
The Possum Man  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,108
carolina, Alabama
Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
15 years before you see results of managing deer? Really? How many deer have you ever heard of that lived to 15 years in the wild?


Not necessarily a full 15 years before you see results of course, but it does take a while to start seeing FULL results. No deer dont live that long i know. I think it may take a generation or two of deer before you start getting bigger bodies and racks AFTER you make big changes to the herd. OF course some results happen fairly soon. But they started upping bag limits and trying to get the population under control and we werent seeing big bucks here. Now i left this area for about a decade, but when i got back and starting hunting here there were quite alot more mature bucks that definately were at least growing up with bigger racks than anything i saw in the early 2000s. But lots of things have changed since back then. Not as many people hunting for food and instead hunting for trophies and that is a different subject entirely. But I dont see as many people shooting smaller bucks, they plant more nutritious food plots, and lots of things like that which has lead to bigger bucks IMO. People still dont shoot enough does IMO, lots of hunting clubs they dont shoot any and they probably should.


"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread