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Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614198
09/11/19 09:29 AM
09/11/19 09:29 AM
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Posts: 4,041
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Green County Wisconsin
you have to understand the Wisconsin situation some to understand there is a place for OPEN carry.

Wisconsin has been an open carry state since it's beginning. never since 1848 has it been illegal to open carry.

so when concealed carry was vetoed by the governor and held up in the assembly several times before that. the people of WI took to well researched open carry. It like the first amendment is a tool for change.

the chose wisely the places , they knew their rights and they open carried while at the same time recording everything with digital voice recorders.

they let the police repeatedly harass and arrest them for disorderly conduct. then they sued the cities who had arrested them and the won , over and over and over again. costing these cities repeated legal and judgment expenses.

at the same time some were illegally concealed carrying but then needing to use their gun to fend off attack. cases where the prohibition on concealed carry was decided unconstitutional as it applied to those cases were mounting.

these pressures lead to a quick effort to keep control and act 35 of 2011 was passed before we had defacto concealed carry.

shall issue , 40 dollars for your first 5 years , 22 dollars for each additional 5 years , very few restrictions , may open or conceal carry.

it has a place. and no a t-shirt does not have the same effect.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614201
09/11/19 09:32 AM
09/11/19 09:32 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,968
michigan,USA
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seniortrap Offline
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seniortrap  Offline
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Joined: May 2012
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michigan,USA
If you think "open carry" is beneficial to public opinion, your possibly wrong!

CCW in public does not alarm people. The "BAD" that wish to rob or whatever will be surprised at best.

It isn't any different than someone carrying around a sword, sheathed. Still the onset of "question" of why is it being shown?

I think the "ACT" of walking into a public place brandishing your weapon of choice is childish for attention.


Vietnam--1967 46th. Const./Combat Engineers

"Chaotic action is preferable to orderly inaction."
"After the first shot, all plans go out the window!"
Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614228
09/11/19 10:09 AM
09/11/19 10:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,436
Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29 Offline
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I hate to open carry because it makes me feel very self-conscious and I don't enjoy drawing any attention to myself.

However, I fully agree with GREENCOUNTYPETE (as always) that if the population was accustomed to seeing a fair percentage of the folks walking around armed, they would be acclimated to it and consider it normal. Imagine if all the folks that now carry concealed had all been carrying open for the past 50 years. Everyone in America would think that having civilians walking around with pistols was entirely normal and common. As it is now, when a person is seen with a pistol on their belt, most of the the population will be nervous and fearful. Meanwhile, they don't realize the high number of guns already surrounding them that they can't see.

If more people were less ashamed of carrying a gun and allowed other folks to see it, maybe the general population wouldn't think carrying a gun is so abnormal.

Personally, I'm far less concerned about the danger presented by people I see carrying a sidearm than I am by the people who might be concealing a weapon.

I also find it strange to think that people will put up signs warning would be criminals about the presence of video surveillance, alarm systems, dogs on premises, etc. Advertising each of those defensive measures is considered a viable deterrent to crime. But open carrying a defensive firearm is commonly considered a defensive disadvantage. I'm not sure that's as much the case as most people seem to think. Criminals are lazy, weak, and prefer to prey on the most defenseless. They seek and select the easiest targets. I think it would be very rare indeed that a criminal would target and armed person in preference to someone who appears to be unarmed.


What from Christ that soul can sever,
Bound by everlasting bands?
None shall take thee
From the Strength of Israel's hands.

Re: Open Carry [Re: tlguy] #6614232
09/11/19 10:11 AM
09/11/19 10:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,859
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Ky
Originally Posted by tlguy
I just read today that 30,000 people openly carried guns in Walmart since the asked people not to and none of them were asked not to by employees.


Ok who was counting LOL
The same people that had Billary up by 23% on election night LOL LOL

Last edited by jbyrd63; 09/11/19 10:12 AM.
Re: Open Carry [Re: tlguy] #6614233
09/11/19 10:14 AM
09/11/19 10:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,675
PA
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gryhkl Online content
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PA
Originally Posted by tlguy
I just read today that 30,000 people openly carried guns in Walmart since the asked people not to and none of them were asked not to by employees.


I thought "real" gun owners are boycotting Walmart. whistle

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614238
09/11/19 10:19 AM
09/11/19 10:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,859
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Ky
LOL some of you guys have no clue. You say "Been this way since the 1800' " . Well guys THIS AIN"T THE 1800's !!!!!!!!!! Those laws where made when the population was about 1/10 it is now. Kids where not raised on video games and ridilen !!!

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614316
09/11/19 11:50 AM
09/11/19 11:50 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 485
Northport, Alabama
sanfo008 Offline
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Northport, Alabama
I have the right to cuss my mama out...but that doesn’t make it a good idea.

Re: Open Carry [Re: seniortrap] #6614325
09/11/19 12:02 PM
09/11/19 12:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,197
SE Kansas
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K52 Offline
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SE Kansas
Originally Posted by seniortrap
If you think "open carry" is beneficial to public opinion, your possibly wrong!

CCW in public does not alarm people. The "BAD" that wish to rob or whatever will be surprised at best.

It isn't any different than someone carrying around a sword, sheathed. Still the onset of "question" of why is it being shown?

I think the "ACT" of walking into a public place brandishing your weapon of choice is childish for attention.


So if you open carry you are now " brandishing your weapon" ? WOW.

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614340
09/11/19 12:21 PM
09/11/19 12:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,285
Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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Beatrice, NE
When I carry, I only open carry. I don't have a ccw, and I refuse to pay for one. The license is 100, plus a minimum 80 for the class, plus a belt, and a holster, and perhaps a smaller gun, and we're talking a minimum of 500-600, all for the privilege, not right (you don't have to apply for and pay for rights), to tuck it under my shirt instead of on top of my shirt. No thanks. I refuse to pay for and apply for a license for something that should be my right to do anyway.

I don't carry all the time, mostly while fishing, trapping, etc. Sometimes a semiauto pistol in a kydex holster, sometimes a revolver in a leather holster. The revolver in a leather holster gets more stares, for some reason. I don't care if it presents a bad image or telegraphs my intent,I'm not going to pay money and apply for permission to make someone more comfortable.

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614345
09/11/19 12:25 PM
09/11/19 12:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 724
Maine
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SleekOtter Offline
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Maine
If you open carry you're just trying to attract attention to yourself. More importantly, if you open carry you're inviting a bad guy to make sure he shoots you first THEN mops up the rest of the unarmed people. Action beats reaction and you will likely be shot at before you can pull your gun.

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614388
09/11/19 01:24 PM
09/11/19 01:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,738
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,738
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
I know for a certainty , at least one other in the Tribe feels the same as I smile . I'm sure there's more . It isn't open carry that bothers them , they appreciate and agree with the point of the 2nd entirely.

It's only in the circumstance of dealing with possible encounters and actions in public....it's a strategic mindset , not at all in disagreement with open carry .

To have the element of advantage in case of needed action .

The one who attempts harm on others in a public setting will never see ahead of time , another who carries concealed , so as to focus on that individual first , no doubt from a cowardly distance preferred , similar to their bravado keyboard social media mentality .

Concealed carriers do so, not from yielding to anyone who wishes every place to be a soft target , who are offended to see an armed law abiding citizen . It is to have vital tactical advantage in unfortunate events .

All things may be lawful, but not advantageous . Discernment with a calm heart is a thing of beauty.

When not in public, I do open carry all the time. In the outback, riding , driving , etc. In the small towns of Montana , so many do open carry that it is a normal way of life to see this . Idaho too.

As was mentioned earlier, it varies with population and custom of the area.

Both preferences are held dear, with full respect .

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614401
09/11/19 01:36 PM
09/11/19 01:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,588
ny
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upstateNY Offline
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ny
I have no problem with someone exercising their constitutional rights any way they see fit.To each their own.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614406
09/11/19 01:42 PM
09/11/19 01:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,393
pa
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hippie Offline
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Had a feller come in my shop today packing open.
I said, nice gun! smile

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614418
09/11/19 01:55 PM
09/11/19 01:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,041
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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if you think you will need the strategic hand in things , by all means concealed carry.

I absolutely agree especially at risk persons should keep any advantage they have.

however with only extremely rare occasions is open carry really giving up much advantage , in those cases the gun was the item of theft , you know it is so easy to get a gun these days (yes sarcasm on the media and politicians) that criminals have in some cases taken to ambushing armed people who open carry. Yes police cars have been targeted for the guns they hold also not that you will hear about it. they could get shot but they are willing to take that risk when using a 2 part ambush person walks around a corner to a gun in his face and the 2nd party is following close behind and grabs the gun.


if open carry hurt gun owners the way some of you seem to think it does why wouldn't the antis want you to open carry, the truth is open carry keeps people realizing there are good people with guns.
much the way your positive promotion of trapping with no trapping public makes them see you as a human and not a nameless villain who kill animals for your amusement as the antis would have them believe.

they want anything that cuts into your way of life forcing you to be like them. Antis are not for freedom of speech , nor freedom of religion religion , not for Your 4th amendment protection , they are plane and simple Zealots who only want the system to work for them.

I am borrowing this since I though he pointed it out very well with a comparison , this is a comparison of cultural shift using recent history.
think about it as a cultural shift.

[quote]

This is NOT a comment on gay rights or same sex marriage. Its just an observation and comparison.

People celebrated in the 90's when BILL CLINTON signed DOMA (the defense of marriage act)

They thought that was a win and heterosexual marriage would be protected. They were wrong. The pro gay marriage crowd went about making a CULTURAL change. Because (like I've said for months) legislation does NOT lead cultural change. It FOLLOWS cultural change. By the time the legislators glom on to a movement, it had to have already succeeded in becoming popular with the voting majority.

The gay rights movement set about normalizing people to gay rights. Through gay rights marches, through introducing same sex couples into pop culture (movies, television) People began to sympathize with same sex couples. People got used to SEEING same sex couples. Entire television shows centered around the gay lifestyle and glorified homosexuality. (queer eye for the straight guy) and many others...

Where-by at one time people said 'hey do what you want in your bedroom, but I don't want to see it and I don't want my kids to see it became".. "its on TV everywhere, its in movies... My kids have seen it.. oh... whatever... don't care anymore"

THEN all of a sudden when the cultural shift had ALREADY occurred. Obama.. Clinton.. the rest. ALL OF A SUDDEN they flip flopped on same sex marriage. It had become popular with the majority (or was clearly soon to be) and they glommed on to a cultural change AFTER it actually occurred.

AGAIN. THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OR ENDORSEMENT OF GAY MARRIAGE. Its an observation.

Concealed carry FINALLY passed in every state. Constitutional carry passed in many states. The USSC ruled favorably in the Heller and McDonald decisions (though Heller left ALL kinds of room... TOO MUCH in fact, for states to pass many many restrictions on carry rights and gun rights in the name of 'public safety') (an error that I believe some day will come back to haunt us BIG LEAGUE)

But I'd say 2010 up until Sandy Hook... That was the PEAK of the gun rights movement. It reached its high point. I even recall early in Obammy's first term there were "mass shootings" and reporters asked him what they were going to do and the FIRST words out of his mouth were "well... we are gonna respect the second amendment" and he didn't have much more to say.

I'm here to tell you... THINGS HAVE CHANGED. We are not winning. We are not advancing gun freedoms. The momentum has UNDOUBTEDLY shifted.

Concealed carry laws won't protect gun rights (just like DOMA didn't protect traditional marriage)

A cultural shift against guns IS occurring. Sandy Hook hit the brakes on the advancement of gun rights. Starbucks major "dis" of open carry AND GUNS IN GENERAL was a foreshadowing. (they asked customers not to bring ANY guns in their stores.. open or concealed) They paid NO economic price for their major slap in the face of gun owners. Concelaed carry folks blamed the open carry folks and shot friendly fire at open carriers and went and bought their $5 starbucks anyway. Starbucks dissed guns BIG and got away with it. I said it at the time. THAT was monumental. But Sandy Hook hit the brakes on gun rights advancement, Las Vegas (Mandalay Bay) shoved the transmission in reverse, and Parkland Florida hit the accelerator.

The public schools have been doing their part for the last 30 years demonizing guns AND non-guns (pictures of guns, hand gestures in the representation of a gun, etc)

We now see republicans falling over themselves to try to come up with a "better gun control mousetrap".

If you don't see the tide has shifted, you need to step out of the desert.

WE MUST create a cultural shift to support gun rights. For the past several months I've been suggesting 2 ways to do it. FIRST open carry. Its a daily missionary to "good guys with guns"... Open carry dispells the myth and indoctrination kids get in schools that guns are evil when they walk in (walmart) and see a good guy with a gun on his hip. Nothing bad happens. His/her teachers were full of (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).

Well... with the avalanche of ALL these major retail chains banning open carry. That strategy/tactic to drive cultural change has taken a mega blow.

So how are we going to drive cultural change? So that guns become popular? Something politicians fall over themselves to EMBRACE with legislation?

We don't have mass media. TV news isn't going to tell our story or advocate for right to carry/self defense, and SURELY not the true purpose of the 2nd amendment?

TV shows will NOT begin to show citizens using a concealed carry gun and saving their life. (television and movies would have NO plot if the innocent victims were armed!)

So people want to bash open carry. people want to claim the avalanche of retail stores banning OC is "no big deal" and concern over it is "making a mountain out of a mole hill" (we got that on here in this group today too)

like I said a few paragraphs ago WE ARE LOSING. The tide HAS shifted. Shall-issue laws WON'T protect your gun rights.

Universal background checks/Universal gun registry IS coming if we don't turn the tide.

Red flag laws WILL drastically affect law-abiding gun owners as flying a (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) gadsden flag will get you "red flagged".

"mental health" proposals introduced by republicans will be hijacked by democrats and expanded so that ANYONE with the slightest HINT of a mental health issue (anxiety/depression) RED FLAG.. take your guns. (and they'll all be registered with UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS so they know exactly what you own.

And an Assault Weapons Ban like you've never seen before WILL be coming

(and it will be RETROactive) (and with universal gun registry in place) they will be able to force compliance.

The next AWB won't "grandfather" already owned guns. They will come get them.

[\quote]


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Open Carry [Re: hippie] #6614420
09/11/19 01:57 PM
09/11/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,738
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline
"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,738
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Originally Posted by hippie
Had a feller come in my shop today packing open.
I said, nice gun! smile



grin grin

Ive done that too ! Guess where............a WM in N Idaho , several years ago. An older couple , he was carrying his .45. An instant bond was appreciated. He pointed to a grey haired typical "lil old lady " a few feet away and said she's carrying too- in her purse ! The epitome of the element of surprise . She didn't look that "type" at all.

We all had a grand visit in the ribeye steak section of the isle smile

She peered over the rim of her glasses with a pleasant grandma smile and said so sweet...." Its our constitutional RIGHT ..." I smiled and kept from laughing solely at how cute and sweet she was in saying that.

We left with a handshake and the beloved quote : " An armed society is a polite society . "

The instant bond in friendship felt, knowing we would have each other's 6 in a moment . Imagine that . cool

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614424
09/11/19 02:03 PM
09/11/19 02:03 PM
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hippie Offline
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Yep, he pulled it and let me fondle it. cool

Now i want one!!!!!!

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614430
09/11/19 02:09 PM
09/11/19 02:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,738
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
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laugh Yes sir ! Like me, with some firearms and haaarses ! grin

Re: Open Carry [Re: rex123] #6614548
09/11/19 04:35 PM
09/11/19 04:35 PM
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Champaign County, Ohio.
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KeithC Offline
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Open carry bothers me less than poorly concealed carry. If someone is open carrying, I figure they are highly unlikely to do anything wrong with their firearm, because they have given up the element of surprise. They are too likely to be noticed by law enforcement and just regular people, who then focus on them.

When I notice someone concealed carrying in a holster that is appropriately strapped to their body, I pay them little attention either.

When I see someone with a poorly concealed loose gun in a coat pocket, waist band or in one case a sock, they get a lot of my attention.

Keith

Re: Open Carry [Re: KeithC] #6614559
09/11/19 04:48 PM
09/11/19 04:48 PM
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Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Originally Posted by KeithC
Open carry bothers me less than poorly concealed carry. If someone is open carrying, I figure they are highly unlikely to do anything wrong with their firearm, because they have given up the element of surprise. They are too likely to be noticed by law enforcement and just regular people, who then focus on them.

When I notice someone concealed carrying in a holster that is appropriately strapped to their body, I pay them little attention either.

When I see someone with a poorly concealed loose gun in a coat pocket, waist band or in one case a sock, they get a lot of my attention.

Keith


if you see them concealed carrying I think it safe to say they are doing it wrong.

many now condealed-ish carry , holster as you put it appropriately strapped to their body, but their cover garment isn't exactly working over time , they are only hiding from those really not paying attention. they are barely trying to conceal.

your third group poorly concealing those you should be paying attention to , as they say crooks seldom use holsters.


funny thing is the guy I know who conceals the worst , is a cop. why , because his department requires a level 2 retention holster all the times so he doesn't work very hard at it he clips his badge next to his gun in a OWB cheap blackhawk serpa holster and bulges away.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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