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Pennsylvania deer hunters #6613737
09/10/19 07:20 PM
09/10/19 07:20 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,493
Garden,Michigan
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Buck (Zandra) Offline OP
trapper
Buck (Zandra)  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,493
Garden,Michigan
Whats your take on the status of deer in your state?I'll explain where I'm coming from.I belong to a site on Michigan Deer Hunters.The subject of APR's came up and as always got pretty heated.One guy who's relentless in pushing for antler restrictions says he's from Pennsylvania and just recently moved to Michigan.He's always bringing up how great the deer hunting became in Pa after they instituted antler restrictions and now he's pushing to move Michigan in the same direction.Whats the status of the herd and hunting in general in Pennsylvania?


Buck(formely known as Zandra)
Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6613754
09/10/19 07:42 PM
09/10/19 07:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 129
Pa
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Cope23 Offline
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Cope23  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 129
Pa
Im not sure what great means by that guys standards but deer hunting isn't great, at least not in my area or most areas. If you have private land to hunt its not bad. I know of public land in New York and Maryland that is much better then a lot of private land in Pa. Antler restrictions work just because then have no choice but to work, if you cant shoot it this year he becomes bigger and smarter for next year. No brainer, for every year they survive they become bigger and smarter, they become a different animal. We came a long way since the mid 2000s but in my opinion its a far stretch from great.

Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6613759
09/10/19 07:50 PM
09/10/19 07:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 316
PA
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cablejohn Offline
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cablejohn  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 316
PA
I was always waiting on a nice buck so the APR's never bothered me. A lot of hunters hated it. I feel we now have much larger bucks in Western PA. It also seems like our buck to doe ratio has improved remarkably!

Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6613762
09/10/19 07:51 PM
09/10/19 07:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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Lugnut  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
I've been hunting deer in PA for fifty years. You were always allowed to kill one buck with a general hunting license, still are. Way back in the sixties and seventies through the eighties and nineties you almost had to know somebody at the courthouse to get a much-coveted doe tag.

As a result, the male to female ratio was way out of whack and there was a major overpopulation of deer statewide. You could sit just about anywhere and watch a hundred deer a day run by. If you got lucky one was a spike or small fork horn and your season was over. The deer were scrawny and malnourished. They had long since eaten nearly everything edible and were half-starved. Back then we had more than a million hunters in PA and we killed 90% of the bucks before they reached two years old.

In 2002 Gary Alt introduced herd reduction and antler restrictions. I don't really care about antler restrictions, I hunt deer for the meat, can't eat antlers. But the herd reduction had a profound effect on PA's herd. In the last seventeen years the herd has been reduced by around 25% statewide and closer to 50% in some areas. I usually kill three deer a year. Over the last ten years or so I routinely kill mature doe that dress at 110-130 pounds. Twenty years ago most doe I killed dressed between sixty and eighty pounds.

Used to be nothing but maple and hay-scented fern in the northwoods, two of deer's least favorite foods. Now things are starting to balance out again.

I will say one thing about antler restrictions; over the last 10-15 years I've seen bigger racks than I've ever seen. We do a lot of spotting at night and there's definitely a great improvement in the headgear. Probably less bucks overall but much nicer specimens.


Eh...wot?

Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6613775
09/10/19 08:07 PM
09/10/19 08:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,665
PA
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w side rd 151 Offline
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w side rd 151  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,665
PA
Antler restrictions work because as Cope 2 3 said they have no choice .But along with the antler restrictions has come a steady decline in the number of hunters in PA . Twenty years ago they had about 1.2 million deer hunters in PA .That number now is about 30 % lower maybe more .In my area I see many more late born fawns than I did 20 years ago .As a result there are a lot of small body wise and antler wise buck that start growing their first set of antlers at about 10 months .It takes them until the third year to have over come their late in the year birth. Right now I have a 3 point that has a large amount of antlers on it's head that only a junior hunter can kill . It was a 3 point last year also .He would be a deer that should be killed for the good of the gene pool .Certainly there are some really nice buck out there .But go to a Taxi shop that has been in business since Before the start of AR in PA .They will tell you that had work mounting large buck than also

Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6613778
09/10/19 08:10 PM
09/10/19 08:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,430
PA
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coyotesoldier229 Offline
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coyotesoldier229  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,430
PA
Point restrictions haven’t necessarily improved hunting, but people definitely have shot more 2/3 year old deer instead of yearlings. The increase in doe tags definitely helped get a lower ratio of doe to buck. If you wanna kill older mature bucks, you gotta pass on the 2/3 yr olds that are 15-16” 8pts and up and comers. You gotta have good tract of land with food and have neighbors that are trying to shoot the 4+ yr old deer as well. And you gotta have a good age structure of bucks. I get doe tags for meat, and will pass up decent bucks all of archery if I know of one or two good bucks in the areas I hunt. And saying that, I don’t care for antler restrictions, people should be able to shoot what they feel like. Hunting’s about filling the freezer with friends and family afield. I also think senior license holders should be able to shoot whatever buck they want. My two cents

Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6613791
09/10/19 08:35 PM
09/10/19 08:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,779
Northern lower Michigan
Feedinggrounds Offline
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Feedinggrounds  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,779
Northern lower Michigan
Michigan banned baiting in the lower peninsula this year, our hunting land was geared towards permanent box blinds, food plots and some bait. Our soil is very sandy dry upland pine and oak and food plots struggle. My two grandsons, a friend and myself intend to pass up deer hunting completely this year. Our land has great small game along with fall steelhead and trout on the river we have frontage on. Doing a squirrel camp and fish camp on Nov 15 the deer opener. In Michigan deer hunters are infighting badly due to antler restrictions. We now have Chronic wasting disease the DNR says, many think it is a hoax being used to force the bait ban and antler restrictions. Much misinformation is being pushed by all with a agenda. The DNR has loss most credibility with hunters, fisherman and other sportsman due to mismanagement, participation is dropping fast along with deer tag dollars. Many feel now our whitetail deer are unfit to eat without a slow state sponsored testing program.


you're only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6613817
09/10/19 08:54 PM
09/10/19 08:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,162
uniontown pa
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gutthooked Offline
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uniontown pa
Pa sucks for deer hunting around here, you can hunt most of the season and not see a dozen deer. There was always big racks around , the antler restrictions done nothing for bigger bucks. I'm sure most will disagree with me but that's the truth.


Don't limit your challenges
Challenge your limits
Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: gutthooked] #6613844
09/10/19 09:14 PM
09/10/19 09:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 180
Pennsylvania
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patrapper1989 Offline
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by gutthooked
Pa sucks for deer hunting around here, you can hunt most of the season and not see a dozen deer. There was always big racks around , the antler restrictions done nothing for bigger bucks. I'm sure most will disagree with me but that's the truth.


I agree, I hunt out your way and the deer numbers are definitely down yet. I only shoot buck and do fairly well hunting game lands but it's definitely not like it used to be out there. Antler restrictions don't do anything. All the posted land helps deer get away more than anything, once the public land gets pressure they take cover in the posted. Now we have wide four points breeding does and spikes because they never get legal to harvest, meanwhile the bigger bucks that get harvested early in archery aren't breeding anything ,completely backwards strategy in my opinion.

Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6613950
09/10/19 10:55 PM
09/10/19 10:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,874
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
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Fisher Man  Offline
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Adirondacks, NY
I disagree. Since the antler restrictions we are seeing far better racks. I hunt the mountains of western Pa. Lots of deer and bears too. Big worry is CWD getting into the Elk.

Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6613958
09/10/19 11:09 PM
09/10/19 11:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 868
Punxsutawney, Pa.
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MinkGuy Offline
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MinkGuy  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Punxsutawney, Pa.
Many deer in our area and this year promises to provide some dandies!. My dad shot a big buck about 40 years ago and I remember how many people came to see it and celebrate his success. I have the antlers mounted in my camp alongside many of my daughter's big bucks. As I looked at them the other night I realized that his trophy was much smaller than the recent ones taken by my kids that are now known to be common to the area


DonP
Minktrapping.com
Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: gutthooked] #6614072
09/11/19 06:59 AM
09/11/19 06:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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Lugnut  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
Originally Posted by gutthooked
Pa sucks for deer hunting around here, you can hunt most of the season and not see a dozen deer. There was always big racks around , the antler restrictions done nothing for bigger bucks. I'm sure most will disagree with me but that's the truth.


I can see your point given your location. There have always been big-racked bucks out your way so AR's don't really help. But, in most of the rest of the state where those great east Ohio/southwestern PA genetics don't exist, there has been a big improvement in the quality of headgear.


Eh...wot?

Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6614120
09/11/19 08:10 AM
09/11/19 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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gryhkl Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
Ars in PA came about as a trade off for the herd reduction that was greatly needed but hunters greatly opposed. At Gary Alt's first few talks he gave on the new(at the time)deer management policy he said the goal was to reduce deer numbers and that was only accomplished by killing does. Hunters were outraged so, to gain their support, he changed his tune on ARs.

There are, without a doubt, many more large racked bucks being killed since ARs have been in place.There is also much more posted land and hunters numbers have declined-as they have in nearly everywhere.

I do not favor ARs. If a hunter doesn't want to kill a small buck, don't loose the arrow or pull the trigger. I have always passed on smaller bucks, not so much because I want large antlers, but because I don't want to use my buck tag too early in the season on small one.

The biggest reason I think ARS are a terrible idea is the spreading of CWD. The PGC has established areas of the state where CWD is considered a risk and has set rules on what parts of a deer may be taken from these areas into non-CWD areas. This is done in effort to reduce the transfer from one area to another. If studies show that young bucks are much more likely to travel from the area of their birth to areas further than other deer commonly move from theirs, why are they not legal game? It only makes sense to reduce their numbers too.

Most parts of the state have plenty of deer and, with so many ways to kill them and seasons to do it, most semi-serious deer hunters can kill at least one every year.

Re: Pennsylvania deer hunters [Re: Buck (Zandra)] #6614138
09/11/19 08:31 AM
09/11/19 08:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 190
Sullivan, Ohio
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RV6 Offline
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RV6  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 190
Sullivan, Ohio
Genetically inferior bucks get to breed until they die of old age, the nice ones get shot. In the long run that can't be good. I think what you're seeing now are the benefits of an overall decrease deer in deer population creating better nutrition for the genetics you had in the first place.

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