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Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws #6615737
09/13/19 06:26 AM
09/13/19 06:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16,988
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16,988
Fredonia, PA.

Last edited by Finster; 09/13/19 06:27 AM.

I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615740
09/13/19 06:43 AM
09/13/19 06:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
The fact that the others don’t see the negative impact of Red Flag Laws, is a red flag.


-Goofy-
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615746
09/13/19 06:49 AM
09/13/19 06:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,907
Arkansas
J
J Staton Offline
trapper
J Staton  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,907
Arkansas
I'm waiting on the forums most staunch conservative to respond before commenting. smile


James 1: 19-20
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615754
09/13/19 07:08 AM
09/13/19 07:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16,988
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16,988
Fredonia, PA.
The guy is exactly right. It is 100% unconstitutional. They are taking away a persons rights without due process. A 2nd grade constitutional scholar could figure that one out.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615761
09/13/19 07:14 AM
09/13/19 07:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,747
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,747
williamsburg ks
Take Nancy Regan advice and just say no. Forcefully


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615765
09/13/19 07:28 AM
09/13/19 07:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
L
loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
Red flag laws sound nice in theory-take crazy people's guns away before they use them shoot people. Seems simple when you phrase it like that. The problem is that you're taking away a person's rights based on something they*might* do, or based on something they did that was maybe weird but not illegal (things like acting crazy, making random empty threats, etc). For a red flag law to work, it'd require extreme due process. For me to get behind it, it'd require a trial of sorts with a jury of peers, nothing could be taken away until after this trial, and guns could only be taken away for things that a person has actually done, not what they might do, and only a small specific list of things, spelled out in the law-things like attempted suicide or specific realistic threats of harm with a gun (not just "I'm gonna kill you", but a specific threat of violence with a gun.)

I've yet to see any proposals for red flag laws that I could support.

Last edited by loosegoose; 09/13/19 07:31 AM.
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615787
09/13/19 08:11 AM
09/13/19 08:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,747
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,747
williamsburg ks
Threatening someone can be a felony. “Red Flag” already exists. Hard to shoot somebody from a jail cell.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615790
09/13/19 08:16 AM
09/13/19 08:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,706
Ohio
Ronaround Offline
trapper
Ronaround  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,706
Ohio
Passing it will be another notch in the Demonic Democrats policy to remove Guns.

Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615810
09/13/19 08:36 AM
09/13/19 08:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,236
West Michigan
G
Getting There Offline
trapper
Getting There  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,236
West Michigan
He said it all! He is right.


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615916
09/13/19 11:10 AM
09/13/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,330
Fairbanks, Alaska
Pete in Frbks Offline
trapper
Pete in Frbks  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,330
Fairbanks, Alaska
The concept is sound. Nobody wants crazy people to be armed.

But crazy people have constitutional protection too.

Finding a constitutional way to administer that concept is likely impossible.

Pete

Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615953
09/13/19 11:36 AM
09/13/19 11:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by Finster
The guy is exactly right. It is 100% unconstitutional. They are taking away a persons rights without due process. A 2nd grade constitutional scholar could figure that one out.

X2, thankfully we still have someone like Jordan in there. Not sure he will be able to stop it though, hopefully the Senate will.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615975
09/13/19 11:59 AM
09/13/19 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,423
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,423
Georgia
We used to have a legal mechanism for just this.

It was called Family. It even had a backup system called Church.

But 50 years of great society did away with that.


[Linked Image]
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6615994
09/13/19 12:30 PM
09/13/19 12:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,688
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,688
pa
We use to lock the crazies up.

Not sure which is more un-constitutional, taking their gun or throwing them in a mental hospital.

Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: hippie] #6616003
09/13/19 12:44 PM
09/13/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
L
loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by hippie
We use to lock the crazies up.

Not sure which is more un-constitutional, taking their gun or throwing them in a mental hospital.


Niether are unconstitutional at all after proper due process has been applied. The 14th amendment says "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

The debate is what that due process should be.

Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6616007
09/13/19 12:49 PM
09/13/19 12:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,688
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,688
pa
What was the process for locking them up, if you know? I don't.

Goose,
Wanted to say i respect anyones vote and your reason, on that other thread that disappeared before i could say so.
I may not agree with ya, but i'm glad you vote.

Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6616158
09/13/19 04:22 PM
09/13/19 04:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,124
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,124
McGrath, AK
Here is, IMO, a reasonable discussion of red flag laws.

Pod cast.

https://fedsoc.org/events/red-flag-laws


Mean As Nails
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6616493
09/14/19 04:32 AM
09/14/19 04:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
The real danger is going to be people walking around all bottled up because they can’t blow off a little steam verbally, fearing the due process of Red Laws.


-Goofy-
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: loosegoose] #6616722
09/14/19 12:28 PM
09/14/19 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,001
USA MN
Snowpa Offline
trapper
Snowpa  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,001
USA MN
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Red flag laws sound nice in theory-take crazy people's guns away before they use them shoot people. Seems simple when you phrase it like that. The problem is that you're taking away a person's rights based on something they*might* do, or based on something they did that was maybe weird but not illegal (things like acting crazy, making random empty threats, etc). For a red flag law to work, it'd require extreme due process. For me to get behind it, it'd require a trial of sorts with a jury of peers, nothing could be taken away until after this trial, and guns could only be taken away for things that a person has actually done, not what they might do, and only a small specific list of things, spelled out in the law-things like attempted suicide or specific realistic threats of harm with a gun (not just "I'm gonna kill you", but a specific threat of violence with a gun.)

I've yet to see any proposals for red flag laws that I could support.

You have a lot of faith in a less than perfect judicial system . Juries are hand picked ,and then repicked by prosecution and defense


Never Confuse Stupid With Crazy
Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Snowpa] #6616735
09/14/19 12:58 PM
09/14/19 12:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
L
loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by Snowpa
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Red flag laws sound nice in theory-take crazy people's guns away before they use them shoot people. Seems simple when you phrase it like that. The problem is that you're taking away a person's rights based on something they*might* do, or based on something they did that was maybe weird but not illegal (things like acting crazy, making random empty threats, etc). For a red flag law to work, it'd require extreme due process. For me to get behind it, it'd require a trial of sorts with a jury of peers, nothing could be taken away until after this trial, and guns could only be taken away for things that a person has actually done, not what they might do, and only a small specific list of things, spelled out in the law-things like attempted suicide or specific realistic threats of harm with a gun (not just "I'm gonna kill you", but a specific threat of violence with a gun.)

I've yet to see any proposals for red flag laws that I could support.

You have a lot of faith in a less than perfect judicial system . Juries are hand picked ,and then repicked by prosecution and defense

I don't have very much faith in it, actually. But a jury of peers is better than a single judge deciding someone's fate.

Re: Rep. Jordan Blasts Red Flag Laws [Re: Finster] #6616741
09/14/19 01:09 PM
09/14/19 01:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Didn't Trump say some thing about "take the guns first.....worry about due process second"? I remember because I almost spit a mouthful of coffee watching him say it on the news.

One of the more troubling things he has said......and that is a very high bar.

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