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Re: Tesla cop car [Re: loosegoose] #6626777
09/27/19 04:00 PM
09/27/19 04:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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gryhkl Offline
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by Bob
Solar and wind take more fossil fuels to build and maintain than most people think.

But just like every piece of technology, eventually we'll get to the point where they'll be efficient and cheap. Or we'll find something better.


Yep, just like the cars of today are more advanced than the model "T" Fords.
Internal combustion engine are going nowhere soon and may power trucks and the like for decades to come.

But, younger generations are not as reluctant to accept change and they are more receptive to advances in technology. It will carry over to automobiles, especially if they can be proven to be better for the environment.
Remember when car phones came out? Lots of folks would not have believed how quickly we would go from them to phone that are carried with us everyday and can do everything from make a phone call, to give directions to any address, to buy and sell stocks, and take photos and videos almost as well as a professional.

Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6626790
09/27/19 04:19 PM
09/27/19 04:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
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L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
When electronic ignitions came out, techs thought they were too complicated and prone to failure. Same when manufacturers switched from carbs to fuel injection. Now we've got cars that go 200,000 miles, make 500 horsepower, purr like a kitten at idle, and get 20-somwthing miles to the gallon, thanks to coil-on-plug ignitions and fuel injection, among other things.

When emissions first came out on cars, they were mostly power robbing pieces of junk. Especially EGR systems, they would severely reduce power and make the engine run like junk. Now you'll never notice an EGR system, if your vehicle even has one. Most engines nowadays have variable cam timing, and EGR is done through changes in cam timing, unnoticeable to the driver. Convertors were huge exhaust-choking pieces of junk, now they're not noticeable at all.

It'll likely be the same with electric vehicles. Right now they're a scary to work on, they're mostly slow, they don't go far, and take forever to charge. Maybe 100 years from now they'll be super fast, go forever, be easier to work on, and charge in 10 minutes. Or maybe not, maybe we'll have something else. Who knows, maybe we'll drive around in nuclear powered cars. Gas powered cars will be around for along time until we get to that point, though.

Or maybe the zombie apocalypse will come and we'll be back to riding horses. (This is my personal preference.)

Last edited by loosegoose; 09/27/19 04:20 PM.
Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6626793
09/27/19 04:26 PM
09/27/19 04:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Gryhkl Ya poor ignorant sheep. There is a reason that internal combustion engines here are still gas guzzles. It's politics. In places where gas is way more expensive there are cars that do 60 and more MPG .... but they are not sold here ....... Some of the VW diesels are just a small example. Why .... emissions. Guess what you can't buy a V8 truck in most of Europe .... why .... yep, emissions. Think about that one for a while. I'll give ya a hint .... money.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Tesla cop car [Re: loosegoose] #6626795
09/27/19 04:27 PM
09/27/19 04:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by loosegoose
When electronic ignitions came out, techs thought they were too complicated and prone to failure. Same when manufacturers switched from carbs to fuel injection. Now we've got cars that go 200,000 miles, make 500 horsepower, purr like a kitten at idle, and get 20-somwthing miles to the gallon, thanks to coil-on-plug ignitions and fuel injection, among other things.

When emissions first came out on cars, they were mostly power robbing pieces of junk. Especially EGR systems, they would severely reduce power and make the engine run like junk. Now you'll never notice an EGR system, if your vehicle even has one. Most engines nowadays have variable cam timing, and EGR is done through changes in cam timing, unnoticeable to the driver. Convertors were huge exhaust-choking pieces of junk, now they're not noticeable at all.

It'll likely be the same with electric vehicles. Right now they're a scary to work on, they're mostly slow, they don't go far, and take forever to charge. Maybe 100 years from now they'll be super fast, go forever, be easier to work on, and charge in 10 minutes. Or maybe not, maybe we'll have something else. Who knows, maybe we'll drive around in nuclear powered cars. Gas powered cars will be around for along time until we get to that point, though.

Or maybe the zombie apocalypse will come and we'll be back to riding horses. (This is my personal preference.)

Maybe is being generous. I think we should focus on getting the BS out of the way and allowing the gas engine to reach it's max which would solve a lot!


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6626799
09/27/19 04:34 PM
09/27/19 04:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Well chop chop...... ya got 8.5 years to get that all sorted out grin


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Catch22] #6626816
09/27/19 05:06 PM
09/27/19 05:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
L
loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by Catch22
Originally Posted by loosegoose
When electronic ignitions came out, techs thought they were too complicated and prone to failure. Same when manufacturers switched from carbs to fuel injection. Now we've got cars that go 200,000 miles, make 500 horsepower, purr like a kitten at idle, and get 20-somwthing miles to the gallon, thanks to coil-on-plug ignitions and fuel injection, among other things.

When emissions first came out on cars, they were mostly power robbing pieces of junk. Especially EGR systems, they would severely reduce power and make the engine run like junk. Now you'll never notice an EGR system, if your vehicle even has one. Most engines nowadays have variable cam timing, and EGR is done through changes in cam timing, unnoticeable to the driver. Convertors were huge exhaust-choking pieces of junk, now they're not noticeable at all.

It'll likely be the same with electric vehicles. Right now they're a scary to work on, they're mostly slow, they don't go far, and take forever to charge. Maybe 100 years from now they'll be super fast, go forever, be easier to work on, and charge in 10 minutes. Or maybe not, maybe we'll have something else. Who knows, maybe we'll drive around in nuclear powered cars. Gas powered cars will be around for along time until we get to that point, though.

Or maybe the zombie apocalypse will come and we'll be back to riding horses. (This is my personal preference.)

Maybe is being generous. I think we should focus on getting the BS out of the way and allowing the gas engine to reach it's max which would solve a lot!


What BS?

Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Scuba1] #6626819
09/27/19 05:10 PM
09/27/19 05:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
trapper
loosegoose  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,739
Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Gryhkl Ya poor ignorant sheep. There is a reason that internal combustion engines here are still gas guzzles. It's politics. In places where gas is way more expensive there are cars that do 60 and more MPG .... but they are not sold here ....... Some of the VW diesels are just a small example. Why .... emissions. Guess what you can't buy a V8 truck in most of Europe .... why .... yep, emissions. Think about that one for a while. I'll give ya a hint .... money.


Most of Europe actually has looser emissions standards than the US, which is part of why they can get better gas mileage. They also run tiny little cars with tiny little engines. Also, gas is a lot more expensive over there, which is a big reason so many cars there are tiny and get good gas mileage.

Last edited by loosegoose; 09/27/19 05:10 PM.
Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Scuba1] #6626821
09/27/19 05:12 PM
09/27/19 05:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
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Catch22  Offline
trapper

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Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Well chop chop...... ya got 8.5 years to get that all sorted out grin

We're gonna die Scuba. grin


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Tesla cop car [Re: loosegoose] #6626831
09/27/19 05:22 PM
09/27/19 05:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Gryhkl Ya poor ignorant sheep. There is a reason that internal combustion engines here are still gas guzzles. It's politics. In places where gas is way more expensive there are cars that do 60 and more MPG .... but they are not sold here ....... Some of the VW diesels are just a small example. Why .... emissions. Guess what you can't buy a V8 truck in most of Europe .... why .... yep, emissions. Think about that one for a while. I'll give ya a hint .... money.


Most of Europe actually has looser emissions standards than the US, which is part of why they can get better gas mileage. They also run tiny little cars with tiny little engines. Also, gas is a lot more expensive over there, which is a big reason so many cars there are tiny and get good gas mileage.

That's funny to me and to not come across as arrogant, a naive perception. The BS is imo, combustion engines have never been allowed to reach they're full potential because of the biggies. I am for fossil fuels, wind, solar etc, won't feed the bulldog. If we can get the biggies out of the way our GPM will increase exponentially.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6626842
09/27/19 05:46 PM
09/27/19 05:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,684
Henry Co, IL
3
3togo Offline
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Henry Co, IL
Let's remember, all of those windmills were subsidized by tax payer money. If not, it would have never happened because there was no return on investment. My electric bill has just about doubled since windmills and all the solar panels showed up.
Let's also keep in mind this: years ago Design News magazine did an in depth study on whether or not electric cars were as green as believed. When they considered the ENTIRE life cycle from beginning of manufacture to the disposal of said vehicle it actually created MORE emissions overall than a standard internal combustion engine vehicle life cycle. That information seems to have fallen by the wayside.
Honda years ago had an engine they used that passed ALL emission standards without a catalytic converter. Maybe the major companies could do even better than they are currently doing if encouraged to do so.

Re: Tesla cop car [Re: 3togo] #6626859
09/27/19 06:12 PM
09/27/19 06:12 PM
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Posts: 33
south dakota
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gulch Offline
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south dakota
Yes and in 1985 Honda also had the crx-hf , a carburated car that got 55 mpg.

Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6626866
09/27/19 06:19 PM
09/27/19 06:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
My point was that the emission standards are not " looser " they are different. Different because of money and politics. It has zero to do with saving the planet or saving fuels. If you are going to try and tell e that If you are trying to tell me as a 5+ liter V8 doing 15 MPG or there about has better emissions that a 1.6 liter diesel that does 70 + mpg. You are off your perch. Wanna buy a bridge ??


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6626999
09/27/19 08:33 PM
09/27/19 08:33 PM
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North central Iowa
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Bob_Iowa Offline OP
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North central Iowa
I always laugh at these, because I don’t think the technology for the batteries will be available for many more years, but the one type of “green” fuel I can get behind is the idea of hydrogen. The biggest draw back is the energy that it takes to remove it from the its sources, but that technology is getting better, but like most things something like hydrogen that can be used in vehicles that are built about the same as they were 50 years ago cant be good, we have to reinvent the wheel every time instead of making what we have better.

Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Catch22] #6627024
09/27/19 09:04 PM
09/27/19 09:04 PM
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Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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Originally Posted by Catch22

That's funny to me and to not come across as arrogant, a naive perception. The BS is imo, combustion engines have never been allowed to reach they're full potential because of the biggies. I am for fossil fuels, wind, solar etc, won't feed the bulldog. If we can get the biggies out of the way our GPM will increase exponentially.



What are these biggies that you'd like to get out of the way? What improvements to the internal combustion engine would you suggest?

Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Scuba1] #6627045
09/27/19 09:31 PM
09/27/19 09:31 PM
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gryhkl Offline
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Originally Posted by Scuba1
Gryhkl Ya poor ignorant sheep. There is a reason that internal combustion engines here are still gas guzzles. It's politics. In places where gas is way more expensive there are cars that do 60 and more MPG .... but they are not sold here ....... Some of the VW diesels are just a small example. Why .... emissions. Guess what you can't buy a V8 truck in most of Europe .... why .... yep, emissions. Think about that one for a while. I'll give ya a hint .... money.


You're not a very smart person are ya, stupa?

Re: Tesla cop car [Re: gulch] #6627055
09/27/19 09:38 PM
09/27/19 09:38 PM
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Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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Originally Posted by gulch
Yes and in 1985 Honda also had the crx-hf , a carburated car that got 55 mpg.

A huge reason that car got such good gas mileage is because it weighed like 50 pounds. They're neat cars, fun to drive. But you can tell you're in a tin can when you drive one

Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6627077
09/27/19 09:55 PM
09/27/19 09:55 PM
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Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Green County Wisconsin
I had a 1986 F150 got 20-22mpg , a friend said when he heard that about the 1986 he went to the dealer to get one they didn't have any he ordered a 1987 it got 12-15mpg he wasn't happy.

my neighbor had a car that got 33mpg for a Oldsmobile i think it was , it got wrecked and could only find a newer model of the same car it got 19-22mpg .

he asked the dealer why, notice they always say they needed to MEET emissions.

well MEET can be in either direction , they overshoot the requirement and come back down to meet not exceed the regulation.


Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 09/27/19 09:57 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Tesla cop car [Re: Bob_Iowa] #6627083
09/27/19 10:01 PM
09/27/19 10:01 PM
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KANSAS
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redhillstrapper Offline
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KANSAS
If the gov would put a 1/3 of the money into converting over to natural gas energy as they have wasted on green energy, they would be onto something. Natural gas is cheap to produce and the cleanest burning fuel there is, like Scuba said they know that, but it wouldn't benefit the right people so it will never be done.

Re: Tesla cop car [Re: loosegoose] #6627085
09/27/19 10:04 PM
09/27/19 10:04 PM
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Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Gryhkl Ya poor ignorant sheep. There is a reason that internal combustion engines here are still gas guzzles. It's politics. In places where gas is way more expensive there are cars that do 60 and more MPG .... but they are not sold here ....... Some of the VW diesels are just a small example. Why .... emissions. Guess what you can't buy a V8 truck in most of Europe .... why .... yep, emissions. Think about that one for a while. I'll give ya a hint .... money.


Most of Europe actually has looser emissions standards than the US, which is part of why they can get better gas mileage. They also run tiny little cars with tiny little engines. Also, gas is a lot more expensive over there, which is a big reason so many cars there are tiny and get good gas mileage.


Yep, depending on the country it equates to anywhere from $6 to $9 a gallon... That's what "free" healthcare gets you.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
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