According to the 2017-18 NM fur harvesters report there were 140 red fox taken state wide. You must be in a little pocket of them Adam so few are taken every year. Appears that 2/3 of them came from the far N.W. corner of the state.

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/download/hunting/harvest/2017_2018-Furbearer-Harvest-Report.pdf

I certainly do catch more grey than reds, but I do have a couple spots with reds

Adam what Danny and others have said is strait up , no one gun is going to cover it . I carried a shotgun and a rifle for several years and it sucks ! I started looking for an over/ under in .222/12 ga. because I was already loading for the .222 . I settled on a .223/ 12 ga. And really like the setup . It’s not perfect but does the job at least 90% of the time .

using factory Winchester ammo for the numbers

55gr 223 varmint load with a 200 yard zero the bullet is 1.4 high at 100 , 0 at 200 and 6.8 low at 300

55gr 22-250 varmint load with a 200 yard zero the bullet is 0.9 high at 100 0 at 200 and 5.2 low at 300

gravity effects every bullet , generally you see the effects really start showing about 300 yards

you can push a bullet faster and get a little more range out of it

in this case the 22-250 box velocity is 3680fps and the 223 is 3240 same projectile.

you gain 1.6 inches at 300 yards

but it costs you more for each round and double or more in barrel life for each round for 1.6 inches at 300 yards

if you only plan to hunt and 20 rounds was a years hunting and you really were interested in pushing distance then 22-250 makes sense if it means the difference between making a shot or not

but if you can't shoot well past 200 yards , then you need more practice, it is easy to shoot a lot of rounds in practice and 223 will get you affordable practice ammo as well as longer barrel life while still getting you game once your practiced up.

thanks everyone I appreciate it. I am looking up uppers as I get time.

GCP yup It has been a while (at least 3 yrs) since I have shot over 100 yds but shouldn't be too bad. Heck I am lucky to get pistol range time. Last range time was for ccw renewal I was shooting tight at 30 yds in the morning, by the afternoon it looked like Ray Charles was shooting because of my pain and health. I still shot 100% but far from tight.

All around use,243,with good stout 80 gr.bullet

:D, oh my!!
Fox and bobcats?

They are dead ain't they. I was going to say .243 with 55 grain bullets lol.

Skin them at the pull off the trigger.

Fur friendly for coyotes, AND fox, AND bobcats???

That depends on your definition of “fur friendly” (it IS subjective).

You’re looking for a unicorn IMO.

Centerfire .22s excel in the coyote world.

Centerfire .17s in the fox world.

Choose based on what you have the most of.

Following this thread as well. Love all the great advice from experienced folks.

Would a 204 be a decent compromise or not good for coyotes or fox?

No good for either with factory loads in my experience. If you reload you can get better results I'm told. I sold mine. It was fast and accurate almost no recoil so you could see the hits through your scope but the ammo splashed on impact and left gaping holes in the hide.

I've never myself Hunterd with a .204 but know several that do.
It's a very good round. Trouble is, seems most manufacturers are catering to the varmint crowd.
For pure killing/ saving fur, the 35 grain Berger bullet seems supreme.
But I'm not sure if anyone makes a factory load for it?

I've never myself Hunterd with a .204 but know several that do.
It's a very good round. Trouble is, seems most manufacturers are catering to the varmint crowd.
For pure killing/ saving fur, the 35 grain Berger bullet seems supreme.
But I'm not sure if anyone makes a factory load for it?

Whatever caliber you decide on, if you want true versatility, my advice would be to start rolling your own. You are not going to save any money as some folks are going to tell you. But you can tailor your ammo to what you want it todo. You can push a 223.. 55 grain pretty close to the velocities one gets out of a factory 22-250 ... you can load a 40 grain down to be more fox friendly. The options are if not limitless pretty open to say the least.

I guess this can be justification for getting all set up and learning to reload.

I have most predator calibers that are popular, shot the 22-250 for many years and it worked fine once I went back to solids, all them hollow points and varmint crap just makes sewing a nightmare.

I won a raffle for a 204 and it's the only one I shoot now for anything, and I don't worry about exits, and shoot solids, going to have my boy make me up a AR with this caliber for quicker shooting.

I will load down for cats and smaller critters, but I will probably never shoot the higher calibers or odd balls any more, until the grandkids are old enough to carry them. This caliber is so nice to shoot, stays on sight with scope, and the recoil is almost non existent, never had a dog run away, or an exit I felt was a problem for my work needs !

What ever you decide on, your probably going to want to reload eventually if you want total control on expansion, it's the only way to really dial it in !!

Thanks guys. Good luck Adam m

Thanks everyone. Lots of valuable info to consider

Here is a thought to consider if you roll your own. You can use a cast bullet from say " Berrys plated bullets " in the 55 grain range, put a modest amount of " trail boss " powder or similar behind it and with a 20 inch barrel you now have a 223 squirrel gun at 22 WMR levels. Set it up a few notches and with the same rifle you can push a Speer 70 grain semi Spitzer at north of 3300 ft.sec and have a legitimate deer rifle. So the people say " what caliber ? is best for X<Y>Z I tend to snigger a bit
The difference in two at distance between the 223 and 22 swift, 22-250 etc. is not worth talking about unless you insist on head shots on squirrels at 300 + yards ..... A song dog, cat or fox is not going to be able to tell the difference for sure.