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Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638810
10/13/19 01:48 PM
10/13/19 01:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,515
West Central MN
20scout Offline
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20scout  Offline
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West Central MN
I've always been lead to believe that you never mix two types of insulation. Condensation will form between the two resulting in less R value than you would have with using just one.


Common sense is a not a vegetable that does well in everyone's garden.
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638819
10/13/19 02:07 PM
10/13/19 02:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
No problem using two different types of insulation. It is very common to use spray foam as a flash coat to seal up crawlspaces and attics. Then a lot of folks use blown in cellulose on top of the foam in attics. In crawl spaces many people add foam board over the flash coat of spray foam. No problems doing either of those things


Mean As Nails
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638822
10/13/19 02:13 PM
10/13/19 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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gryhkl Offline
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PA
It used to be common(i think it still is) for builders to used rigid foam sheathing on the exterior everywhere except on the corners where osb is used for bracing. The walls are insulated with kraft faced fiberglass between the interior finished wall and the foamboard. I have never heard of anyone having a problem doing it that way,. And yes, the vapor barrier is always on the heated side of the walls.

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638897
10/13/19 04:26 PM
10/13/19 04:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,319
Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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Northern MN
I am not sure if I missed it but what is your wall depth 2x4 or 2x6? If you truly wanted warm walls 6 is the way to go. If they are 2x4 your only going to get so much out Of them. Do what you can and put your efforts into the overhead insulation and your base perimeter insulation. You will lose most out your lid. Get that really well insulated and just as importantly really well vented so moisture is not a problem up there. Your base perimeter can let a ton of cold in if not addressed.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638901
10/13/19 04:30 PM
10/13/19 04:30 PM
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PA
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gryhkl Offline
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PA
We can no longer use 2x4 exterior walls here.

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638925
10/13/19 05:13 PM
10/13/19 05:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,056
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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You can if you can reach R21.


Eh...wot?

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638938
10/13/19 05:48 PM
10/13/19 05:48 PM
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Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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Northern MN
Looking at the above posts... If you have 2x6 walls with a house wrap on the outside and 6" insulation Kraft face on the inside I'd leave it at that. Make sure you have enough room around your window and door jambs for insulation, do it right, and use good doors and glass. If the interior is a wood tounge and groove type product I'd put it right over the craft face. Done.
I would not put poly any where near the place if I didn't have to.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Osky] #6639025
10/13/19 08:22 PM
10/13/19 08:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 137
Maine
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Winterprime Offline OP
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Maine
Originally Posted by Osky
Looking at the above posts... If you have 2x6 walls with a house wrap on the outside and 6" insulation Kraft face on the inside I'd leave it at that. Make sure you have enough room around your window and door jambs for insulation, do it right, and use good doors and glass. If the interior is a wood tounge and groove type product I'd put it right over the craft face. Done.
I would not put poly any where near the place if I didn't have to.

Osky

I think this is the route I'm going to go with, Osky. They are 2x6 walls and electric is already in. I still may put osb or at the very least strapping because I'm going vertical with the tongue and groove. Attic is well insulated so heat loss out of the ceiling should be minimal.

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6639032
10/13/19 08:30 PM
10/13/19 08:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 137
Maine
W
Winterprime Offline OP
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Winterprime  Offline OP
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Maine
Thanks everyone for your responses, looks like I will avoid placing two vapor barriers over each other. If it means I have to bring in a little extra firewood for winter then so be it. I would rather have a less insulated, dry house than a super insulated house with moisture issues.

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6639046
10/13/19 08:47 PM
10/13/19 08:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 43
North Dakota
Torman Offline
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North Dakota
Make the house really tight and then put a HRV in. I built my house and used icfs from the basement to the rafters. If you have the air exchanger it should take care of the moisture inside.

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Osky] #6639063
10/13/19 09:01 PM
10/13/19 09:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Osky

I would not put poly any where near the place if I didn't have to.

Osky


Funny how different places are different. Some areas require a poly vapor barrier and others prohibit it.

Personally, in a cold climate, you couldn't give me a house without a poly VB !


Mean As Nails
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6639065
10/13/19 09:03 PM
10/13/19 09:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,319
Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Northern MN
Originally Posted by Winterprime
Originally Posted by Osky
Looking at the above posts... If you have 2x6 walls with a house wrap on the outside and 6" insulation Kraft face on the inside I'd leave it at that. Make sure you have enough room around your window and door jambs for insulation, do it right, and use good doors and glass. If the interior is a wood tounge and groove type product I'd put it right over the craft face. Done.
I would not put poly any where near the place if I didn't have to.

Osky

I think this is the route I'm going to go with, Osky. They are 2x6 walls and electric is already in. I still may put osb or at the very least strapping because I'm going vertical with the tongue and groove. Attic is well insulated so heat loss out of the ceiling should be minimal.



We're it mine, using vertical tongue and groove, the interior osb is crappy backing for nailing. I would just put horizontal blocking in. 2 rows min, maybe 3. 2 x 4s set wide face to the inside flush to the inner studs. Toe nail them in. End nail and stagger if easier.


Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6639109
10/13/19 09:39 PM
10/13/19 09:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,111
Millville, Pennsylvania
Fairchild #17 Offline
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OSB is not a good backer for T&G if you are using finish nails in the tongue. OSB just doesn't grip nails very well.

Adding 2x4 nailers on flat between the studs will compress your insulation and diminish your R value.......something you are trying to protect. With batted insulation, you're going to have drafty walls if you simply install T&G without some sort of solid backing.
Skip the insulation board, skip the OSB, and just add 1/2" drywall......taped and mudded with one coat to seal things up.
I would save yourself a lot of work and run those finish boards horizontal. If not, fir ontop the drywall and run it vertical.

Hopefully you electrical boxes aren't installed and rough wire yet, or else you'll be moving everything.

Last edited by Fairchild #17; 10/13/19 09:44 PM.

Nowadays it just don't pay to be a good 'ol boy.
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6639128
10/13/19 09:49 PM
10/13/19 09:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,377
western mn
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bucksnbears Offline
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western mn
I think engeneers have WAY too much time on their hands smile


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Fairchild #17] #6639140
10/13/19 10:05 PM
10/13/19 10:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,319
Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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Northern MN
Originally Posted by Fairchild #17
OSB is not a good backer for T&G if you are using finish nails in the tongue. OSB just doesn't grip nails very well.

Adding 2x4 nailers on flat between the studs will compress your insulation and diminish your R value.......something you are trying to protect. With batted insulation, you're going to have drafty walls if you simply install T&G without some sort of solid backing.
Skip the insulation board, skip the OSB, and just add 1/2" drywall......taped and mudded with one coat to seal things up.
I would save yourself a lot of work and run those finish boards horizontal. If not, fir ontop the drywall and run it vertical.

Hopefully you electrical boxes aren't installed and rough wire yet, or else you'll be moving everything.


I think 6" inulsation will do just fine despit a couple of 1 1/2 inch compressions where the nailing blocks are. The wood that replaces that 1 1/2 inch of insulation has good r valu itself.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: bucksnbears] #6639157
10/13/19 10:50 PM
10/13/19 10:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,175
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by bucksnbears
I think engeneers have WAY too much time on their hands smile


. I enjoy working with a good engineer ! You can keep all the architects though. They think just because they can draw something two-dimensional that it can be built with wood in three dimensions.

I received a set of signed, stamped prints from an architect for a new museum for the University of Alaska. He had the floor below grade but wouldn't believe me until he sent out a surveyor !

A lot of engineers have actually worked in the trades. Architects not so much.


Mean As Nails
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: white17] #6639222
10/14/19 05:47 AM
10/14/19 05:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,720
Maine
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Mac Offline
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Maine
Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by bucksnbears
I think engeneers have WAY too much time on their hands smile


. I enjoy working with a good engineer ! You can keep all the architects though. They think just because they can draw something two-dimensional that it can be built with wood in three dimensions.

I received a set of signed, stamped prints from an architect for a new museum for the University of Alaska. He had the floor below grade but wouldn't believe me until he sent out a surveyor !

A lot of engineers have actually worked in the trades. Architects not so much.


Lot of truth right here boys.



Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6639238
10/14/19 06:46 AM
10/14/19 06:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,056
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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SEPA
Don't get me started about architects.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to pore over prints trying to find simple addition/subtraction errors when total inside dimensions don't equal outside dimensions. You would think basic math skills would be prerequisite to being an architect.

One of my current jobs; converting a back porch into a master bath/walk-in closet/dressing room, the existing footing does not meet current code (not deep enough). In my opinion it is deep enough to have no movement. My architect agrees. He was shocked when the code enforcement officer wouldn't let him sign off on it instead requiring a report from an engineer. It was a real blow to his ego! LOL


Eh...wot?

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Fairchild #17] #6639254
10/14/19 07:12 AM
10/14/19 07:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 137
Maine
W
Winterprime Offline OP
trapper
Winterprime  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 137
Maine
Originally Posted by Fairchild #17
OSB is not a good backer for T&G if you are using finish nails in the tongue. OSB just doesn't grip nails very well.

Adding 2x4 nailers on flat between the studs will compress your insulation and diminish your R value.......something you are trying to protect. With batted insulation, you're going to have drafty walls if you simply install T&G without some sort of solid backing.
Skip the insulation board, skip the OSB, and just add 1/2" drywall......taped and mudded with one coat to seal things up.
I would save yourself a lot of work and run those finish boards horizontal. If not, fir ontop the drywall and run it vertical.

Hopefully you electrical boxes aren't installed and rough wire yet, or else you'll be moving everything.

Electrical boxes are installed but every one of them in the house is an adjustable box so wall thickness can be up to around 2 1/2" should I choose

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6639260
10/14/19 07:18 AM
10/14/19 07:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 137
Maine
W
Winterprime Offline OP
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Winterprime  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 137
Maine
Would plywood be a better backing for T&G than osb?

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