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Question for carpentry guys #6638612
10/13/19 08:15 AM
10/13/19 08:15 AM
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Maine
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Winterprime Offline OP
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Maine
Question for all t-man carpenters. I'm currently in the process of building my first house. I'm doing as much of the work on it myself as I can. I want it to be very well insulated because I live in a very cold climate. Right now the house is insulated with Kraft faced insulation. Would I be safe putting 1/2 inch thermax over that and then osb? Or would the double vapor barrier on top of eachother be an issue? I have house wrap on the outside currently. Thanks for any help.

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638618
10/13/19 08:28 AM
10/13/19 08:28 AM
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Wright Brothers Offline
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I think Owens Corning has a FAQ page on their site.
I have called them for assistance in the past.

I wish I had done blown in but hind sight should coulda.





Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638619
10/13/19 08:29 AM
10/13/19 08:29 AM
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chelsea,wi
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I would put the 1/2" foam on the inside, under the sheetrock...shoulda sprayed foam in the wall and been done


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Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638622
10/13/19 08:32 AM
10/13/19 08:32 AM
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Maine
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Mac Offline
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Originally Posted by Winterprime
Question for all t-man carpenters. I'm currently in the process of building my first house. I'm doing as much of the work on it myself as I can. I want it to be very well insulated because I live in a very cold climate. Right now the house is insulated with Kraft faced insulation. Would I be safe putting 1/2 inch thermax over that and then osb? Or would the double vapor barrier on top of eachother be an issue? I have house wrap on the outside currently. Thanks for any help.



To avoid trouble I would check with the supplier and manufacturer. Got to give you credit for thinking this through. A lot of folks would not. I you do something that does not work out you will have a heck of a time getting anyone to stand behind your product but at least you are trying to think ahead.
Mac



Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638629
10/13/19 08:38 AM
10/13/19 08:38 AM
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Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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When still in that business we tore into many one hundred plus year old houses and the best preserved were always the ones with 3/4" boards nailed horizontaly outside the studs and maybe that old tarpaper type material over that then siding as a finish.
Point being there is a lot to be said for letting a house breath particularly these days with the poorly kiln dried materials on the market.
The only mold issues I recall were caused of an actual rain leak, not general humidity conditions.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

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Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638681
10/13/19 09:40 AM
10/13/19 09:40 AM
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Matt28 Offline
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I just built and did spray foam and metal roof and sides. The spray foam has did good so far. It hasn't been real cold but Thursday when I got home from work I turned the central air off. It's been 30 to 40 degrees the last 3 mornings and the temp is still 70 In the house. Its held well the last 3 days. I do wish I would have did a little bit of closed cell in the roof and then open cell. I went with just open cell everywhere. The close cell would have helped with the sound of rain on the roof.

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638693
10/13/19 10:03 AM
10/13/19 10:03 AM
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Bemidji, MN
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Jacks Offline
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you should not use paper faced with the Thermax over that, I would remove the paper, I also would question why the Osb? I am assuming your referring to the interior ? If this is your finish fine, if it’s not I would omit it and use 1” thermax and then tape all joints a;d nail heads this is now your vapor barrier

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638700
10/13/19 10:07 AM
10/13/19 10:07 AM
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I agree with Osky. I would use Roxul ridged board either 1-2” it breathes and doesn’t require any vapor barrier. I would also use a mesh underneath it to help remove any moisture like that used underneath cement board siding. Added insulation in the attic and use flashing properly around the windows and doors, use kick out flashing where needed or you will rott your walls. Flashing incorrectly is one of the biggest problems that needs to be addressed. I recommend you look up how to properly install flashing or suffer the consequences later. Plus If possible use big overhangs to keep moisture off the walls as much as possible. No vegetation within a foot of the house the walls need air flow to dry out


The bitterness of poor quality last a lot longer than the sweetness of low price
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Osky] #6638740
10/13/19 11:15 AM
10/13/19 11:15 AM
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Maine
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Mac Offline
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Originally Posted by Osky
When still in that business we tore into many one hundred plus year old houses and the best preserved were always the ones with 3/4" boards nailed horizontaly outside the studs and maybe that old tarpaper type material over that then siding as a finish.
Point being there is a lot to be said for letting a house breath particularly these days with the poorly kiln dried materials on the market.
The only mold issues I recall were caused of an actual rain leak, not general humidity conditions.

Osky


You are correct. Too many tight houses in the last several years that cannot breath.



Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Jacks] #6638741
10/13/19 11:17 AM
10/13/19 11:17 AM
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Maine
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Winterprime Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Jacks
you should not use paper faced with the Thermax over that, I would remove the paper, I also would question why the Osb? I am assuming your referring to the interior ? If this is your finish fine, if it’s not I would omit it and use 1” thermax and then tape all joints a;d nail heads this is now your vapor barrier

Yes the interior. I was thinking of putting osb over the thermax and then nailing my tongue and groove pine to the osb. Maybe I should use strapping and nail the pine to that?

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638743
10/13/19 11:19 AM
10/13/19 11:19 AM
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Winterprime Offline OP
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Thanks for all the replies so far everyone. Trying to let my house breath but at the same time want to insulate it to the max. Trying to decide the best route. Keep the opinions coming.

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638746
10/13/19 11:25 AM
10/13/19 11:25 AM
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St. Cloud, MN
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The vapor barrier should ALWAYS be on the warm side of the wall.


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Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638748
10/13/19 11:26 AM
10/13/19 11:26 AM
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Bemidji, MN
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Jacks Offline
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I fit was me I would do this if not too late, if windows are set it may not work out

Insulate stud cavities and then put 2” on outside of all walls and buck out windows And doors

If it’s too late, put on 1”. Thermax, and then nail tg over it into your studs. The osb only helps if your doing small pieces and can’t nail into studs

I don’t agree with others, you should make your house as tight as possible and make sure it’s 100 waterproof

Then use an air exchange to help remove moisture

Tight houses are only problems when they are not watertight or not exchanging air

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638749
10/13/19 11:29 AM
10/13/19 11:29 AM
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Winterprime Offline OP
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My main concern putting thermax over kraft faced insulation is that condensation will form between the two and have no way to escape. Kraft is not a true vapor barrier its only a vapor retardant. It would be a humidity thing and not a leak thing the house is brand new so should be leak free for a while
Am i over thinking this?

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Jacks] #6638750
10/13/19 11:30 AM
10/13/19 11:30 AM
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Winterprime Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Jacks
I fit was me I would do this if not too late, if windows are set it may not work out

Insulate stud cavities and then put 2” on outside of all walls and buck out windows And doors

If it’s too late, put on 1”. Thermax, and then nail tg over it into your studs. The osb only helps if your doing small pieces and can’t nail into studs

I don’t agree with others, you should make your house as tight as possible and make sure it’s 100 waterproof

Then use an air exchange to help remove moisture

Tight houses are only problems when they are not watertight or not exchanging air

Thanks Jack's, unfortunately the windows are set and siding is on the outside already. I was planning on vertical pine so nailing to studs is out of the question

Last edited by Winterprime; 10/13/19 11:31 AM.
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638752
10/13/19 11:34 AM
10/13/19 11:34 AM
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St. Cloud, MN
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BTW, modern housewrap is designed to breathe similar to Gore- Tex, so it is fine to have housewrap and a moisture barrier behind the finished interior wall. What do you plan to finish the inside of your exterior walls with?

Last edited by trapperkeck; 10/13/19 11:35 AM.

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Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638754
10/13/19 11:39 AM
10/13/19 11:39 AM
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Bemidji, MN
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Jacks Offline
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I would remove your kraft paper, If you can sacrice some wall thickness I would use 1” foam over. Tape all joints good amd caulk floor and ceiling corner joints. Then strap it with 1/2 or 3/4 and then foam in between the strapping and then nail on tg

If you could not make wall thicker I would go through work to strap the studs inside wall cavity, notch fiberglass around that, use 1” Thermax and then nail tg

But you could use only 1/2 Insul and strap on top of that and the air space will help

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638762
10/13/19 11:58 AM
10/13/19 11:58 AM
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McGrath, AK
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I would not recommend ever setting up a situation where you have two vapor barriers. Sounds like you are aware of that.

I too would have added the foam board on the outside but since it is too late for that You could just sheetrock and fire tape. Then ad two inch nailers with 2" foam board in between. You COULD also run your electrical on this surface ( I'll bet that's already in place)....anyway that will give you more insulation, and nailing surface for the T&G pine, and have your electrical at the finished surface. Probably a bit cheaper too since the rock is cheaper to buy than the OSB.


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Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638763
10/13/19 11:59 AM
10/13/19 11:59 AM
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St. Cloud, MN
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I am assuming it has been wired for electric and I missed the part about the walls being T&G pine. Gonna be a pain moving all the electrical boxes if you start furring out the walls. I guess that part is up to you. Plenty of insulation in the attic and a good, efficient furnace will do you more good than anything. Using housewrap tape around all doors and windows and caulking anything else that might cause an air leak will seal it up just fine. I don't like Kraft face insulation because it has a tendency to put pressure against the back side of sheetrock causing nail pops. It can also cause your T & G to work away from studs or not get nailed tight, especially if you are using finish nails to nail it off.

Last edited by trapperkeck; 10/13/19 12:00 PM.

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Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6638766
10/13/19 12:07 PM
10/13/19 12:07 PM
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St. Cloud, MN
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I missed the part where you planned to sheath the inside of the exterior walls with osb. If that was the plan, I would opt for white17's plan instead.


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