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Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6639273
10/14/19 07:37 AM
10/14/19 07:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
"Minka"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
I liked working with architects. I usually met them on professional malpractice and breach of contract disputes. Three architects I met that way are still close friends.

Engineers tend to be more arrogant, like doctors. I knew an engineer I used as an expert a few times, and went fishing with once or twice on the Situk River. Lost contact with him. I think he was probably wiped out financially because his firm designed the Anchorage port project, which has incurred a couple hundred million in damages when the new dock failed. I remember when Dennis showed me a model of the new dock system he designed. He was so proud of it. Yet on a real life project the cells were failing even before construction was finished.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6639288
10/14/19 08:02 AM
10/14/19 08:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,926
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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Lugnut  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,926
SEPA
Originally Posted by Winterprime
Would plywood be a better backing for T&G than osb?


It would be but solid wood, like the horizontal purlins Osky suggested, would be much better. I'm doing a job right now where the original installers failed to hit any studs when they put up the 5.5" straight-lap mahogany siding. As a result hundreds of nails have backed out and the siding is warping, cracking and pulling away from the sheathing. I'm replacing and renailing everything. Granted, you won't have that extreme movement inside but it's always best to use solid nailing.


Eh...wot?

Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Lugnut] #6639297
10/14/19 08:14 AM
10/14/19 08:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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Osky  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
Originally Posted by Lugnut
Originally Posted by Winterprime
Would plywood be a better backing for T&G than osb?


It would be but solid wood, like the horizontal purlins Osky suggested, would be much better. I'm doing a job right now where the original installers failed to hit any studs when they put up the 5.5" straight-lap mahogany siding. As a result hundreds of nails have backed out and the siding is warping, cracking and pulling away from the sheathing. I'm replacing and renailing everything. Granted, you won't have that extreme movement inside but it's always best to use solid nailing.


This.
Snap two or three horizontal chalk lines spaced equally on the inside wall. Cut your blocks for the spaces and nail one spaces block above the line, the next under and so on. Push the blocks in against the paper craft face, if it rips so be it. Stapling the craft face in is not a solid seal anyway. Don't over think it. Again you will lose more heat to draft and cold invasion thru Windows and doors than you ever will thru the walls.
Put the money saved into other needs.
Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: white17] #6639310
10/14/19 08:22 AM
10/14/19 08:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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Osky  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,294
Northern MN
Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by bucksnbears
I think engeneers have WAY too much time on their hands smile


. I enjoy working with a good engineer ! You can keep all the architects though. They think just because they can draw something two-dimensional that it can be built with wood in three dimensions.

I received a set of signed, stamped prints from an architect for a new museum for the University of Alaska. He had the floor below grade but wouldn't believe me until he sent out a surveyor !

A lot of engineers have actually worked in the trades. Architects not so much.



I,had a business associate ask me to,look at a set of prints recently for a very large storage facility and compound he is going to havie built. The civil engineer who did the utility and water dispersion layouts has the grades running water south, when it's suppose to be running north to the very expensive holding ponds that are required on the property. They thought me a bigger fool than I probably am until I convinced everyone involved to take a second look. Veeeery proud of themselves those engineers and architects.

Osky


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Osky] #6640701
10/15/19 10:16 PM
10/15/19 10:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,111
Millville, Pennsylvania
Fairchild #17 Offline
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Fairchild #17  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,111
Millville, Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Osky
Originally Posted by Fairchild #17
OSB is not a good backer for T&G if you are using finish nails in the tongue. OSB just doesn't grip nails very well.

Adding 2x4 nailers on flat between the studs will compress your insulation and diminish your R value.......something you are trying to protect. With batted insulation, you're going to have drafty walls if you simply install T&G without some sort of solid backing.
Skip the insulation board, skip the OSB, and just add 1/2" drywall......taped and mudded with one coat to seal things up.
I would save yourself a lot of work and run those finish boards horizontal. If not, fir ontop the drywall and run it vertical.

Hopefully you electrical boxes aren't installed and rough wire yet, or else you'll be moving everything.


I think 6" inulsation will do just fine despit a couple of 1 1/2 inch compressions where the nailing blocks are. The wood that replaces that 1 1/2 inch of insulation has good r valu itself.

Osky


Pine has an R value of 1 per inch..
Batted fiberglass is around 3 per inch depending on the brand

It's not just the R value lost in the compression, it's the inconsistency in the crushed product that will create separation from the framing members and sheathing. This separation will leak air, and leaked air will further diminish heat retention.

R value of closed cell spray foam isn't all that impressive, but its ability to totally seal air flow is off the charts. Heat retention is like 96% in the first two inches of application.......much much better than 6" of fiberglass with typical loose installation methods.


Nowadays it just don't pay to be a good 'ol boy.
Re: Question for carpentry guys [Re: Winterprime] #6640715
10/15/19 10:35 PM
10/15/19 10:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,111
Millville, Pennsylvania
Fairchild #17 Offline
trapper
Fairchild #17  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,111
Millville, Pennsylvania
You can do whatever you want to do, but if I were doing the job on an exterior wall (inside) with T&G pine, it would be getting a solid backing of some sort to SEAL the draft out. Pywood would work. Drywall is much cheaper and easy to air seal. Unless you are absolutely certain that the exterior sheathing is buttoned up air tight (95% of the time it is not) you need to seal out the drafts on the interior walls or you will FEEL it when the cold winds blow. House wrap is not a wind barrier. It may help some, but it will not keep drafts at bay.

T&G pine by itself nailed straight to studs will leak so bad you'll hear whistling between the boards in some places. The tongue does not seal in the groove (it's not designed to). Magnify that by shrinking wood in the cold dry air and you might as well have window screens screwed on your walls. This is not a theory, I'm telling you from years of experience.
Blocking on flat between the studs is fine for an interior wall. Not a chance I'd allow it on exterior walls.


Nowadays it just don't pay to be a good 'ol boy.
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