Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6640569
10/15/19 07:28 PM
10/15/19 07:28 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447 idaho
wallfur
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6640577
10/15/19 07:35 PM
10/15/19 07:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198 Armpit, ak
Dirt
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I hate to do this; defend NAFA, but the U.S. has it's own agreement. If NAFA wanted, which I don't believe they do, U.S. trappers to comply with anything, it would be our own bmps not Canada's agreement that they don't realllllly comply with.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6640652
10/15/19 09:07 PM
10/15/19 09:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076 Maine
mainer
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It doesn't matter what agreement is referenced or if no agreement is referenced. The point here is that NAFA does not have the authority or jurisdiction to enforce compliance with or require declaration of anything with regard to our BMPs or our ethics or our harvesting methods or the equipment we use and so on. They have absolutely no standing when it comes to how we harvest fur -- NONE!
I will never participate in their attempts -- however innocuous they make it sound -- to have me acknowledge their authority over how I harvest my fur through any document signed or otherwise. It is literally none of their business, and I will make sure of that by never doing business with them so long as they continue down their Certification and Traceability road.
This has never been about crafting the right language for those of us in the United States to accept NAFA's "Ethical Sourcing Terms and Conditions." It's about who has the authority to demand whether I am in compliance with anything I do as a licensed trapper in the U.S.
NAFA does not have that authority in any way shape or form. And we need to make sure they never do.
"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound." Jim Beckwourth (1856)
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6640768
10/16/19 01:29 AM
10/16/19 01:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198 Armpit, ak
Dirt
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NAFA sets their own terms with who does business with them. Nobody is forcing anybody to do business with them. I don't even believe NAFA wanted to do this certification B.S. Sometimes things are forced on you because your competition starts this crap. I bet they don't even want to deal with this since they got bigger problems these days. I could be wrong.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6640891
10/16/19 08:45 AM
10/16/19 08:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076 Maine
mainer
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As does FHA, which respects the "wide range of state, provincial, territorial and federal rules" on harvesting fur by NOT setting up it's own trademarked certification protocols. Here is FHA's position on certification: Here is NAFA's Certified™ Wild Fur requirement (aka "NAFA Certified™ Ethical Sourcing Terms & Conditions"): Fur Harvesters Auction is NAFA's competition, and they don't require trappers to " declare their intentions" because intentions are irrelevant to the "wide range of state, provincial, territorial and federal rules" already in place. I don't think we're in disagreement, Dirt.
"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound." Jim Beckwourth (1856)
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6640976
10/16/19 11:09 AM
10/16/19 11:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198 Armpit, ak
Dirt
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FHA is not the competition I'm talking about. NAFA's (the fox and mink breeders of the U.S. and Canada) competition is the European farmers. They (European farmers) started this welfare certification stuff because their business activity is slowly being banned across western Europe. Now they are running to Poland. For some reason wild fur got drug into this mess.
The farmers created welfare STANDARDS. Are they enforced? You really can't certify wild fur. The certification is meaningless. The Auctions are just saying the word "Certified"
FYI
"Keeping mink in small barren cages has been banned in several European countries, including Britain, Germany, Czech Republic, Austria, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Spain, Croatia, Macedonia and Slovenia. The few remaining major producers of mink are Finland, Denmark, Poland, Greece and China. In Poland the government is discussing a new animal welfare law which would ban fur farming. Fox farming has been banned in Denmark and Sweden."
Last edited by Dirt; 10/16/19 12:31 PM.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6641008
10/16/19 12:00 PM
10/16/19 12:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076 Maine
mainer
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Gotcha...my misunderstanding.
"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound." Jim Beckwourth (1856)
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6641039
10/16/19 12:55 PM
10/16/19 12:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,843 Wisconsin
The Beav
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If you want to sell your fur what's the big deal sign the freakin paper. Can't see where It's going to hurt you.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6641043
10/16/19 01:02 PM
10/16/19 01:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198 Armpit, ak
Dirt
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I agree with Beav, only the selling will hurt.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6641056
10/16/19 01:30 PM
10/16/19 01:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076 Maine
mainer
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Yep! Sign the paper with FHA, and you won't have to declare your intentions to fulfill any requirements and your fur check won't bounce. Sounds like a win, win to me.
Good advice, Beav.
"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound." Jim Beckwourth (1856)
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6641123
10/16/19 03:15 PM
10/16/19 03:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,843 Wisconsin
The Beav
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The point Is no one Is going to be checking your methods and what traps you use to make a catch. So It's just smoke and mirrors to satisfy some faction.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: The Beav]
#6641129
10/16/19 03:28 PM
10/16/19 03:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,198 Armpit, ak
Dirt
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The point Is no one Is going to be checking your methods and what traps you use to make a catch. So It's just smoke and mirrors to satisfy some faction. Muskrat will probably even be able to certify his illegally crossed the RR tracks fur.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: The Beav]
#6641131
10/16/19 03:32 PM
10/16/19 03:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076 Maine
mainer
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The point Is no one Is going to be checking your methods and what traps you use to make a catch. So It's just smoke and mirrors to satisfy some faction. Or.....I could maintain my self-respect and go with door #2 or #3. Markets with choices are a wonderful thing.
"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound." Jim Beckwourth (1856)
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Re: NAFA certification paperwork?
[Re: Dirt]
#6641868
10/17/19 10:55 AM
10/17/19 10:55 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,696 Newark, Ohio 83 years
Actor
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Newark, Ohio 83 years
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So what do you suppose the outcome would be if for instance... You didn't sign the agreement (certification) with NAFA, but you sent them a very large lot of red fox (or name your fur). What will NAFA do with that fur... Just seize it and sell it and keep all of the money, or return it to you and send you a bill for the shipping and handling costs, or demand the S & H costs in advance, and if you don't send the money they just keep it. I know this appears to be illegal for them to do this, but the way the liberal Canadian Government is, NAFA may be able to persuade the Government into passing regulations to make it legal to take this action, since it is an international action.
I guess I am at the age, and have been around enough to see everything most governments do, is to see how bad they can put the shaft to people.
Garry-.
“Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.”
Have been trapping 77 years…
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