Has anyone got the good checks yet as promised? Or does anyone really care?

I don't sell to Nafa so I really don't have a dog in this fight but I have a question for you guys that do . If you sold a car, roofed a house or did any kind of work for anyone and they paid you with a bad check would you set back and let that person decide when they would make it good ? Yes I understand they had banking problems but if you had banking problems and wrote a bad check would the people who got that check want their money right away or would they let you say keep checking the mail it will be there sometime this month or next? Sorry like I said no dog in the fight but it seems just because it's them they get a pass and everyone is okay with it.

I don't think anyone is OK with it, but there are not alot of options. What would you suggest Rex?

Thanks rex123 Looks that way doesn't it? I'll not be fooled twice.

I really look at someone with no skin in the game for solutions. Lmao

Start with blowing up their email box until you get a check. Move onto regular phonecalls.

That's my thought as well. If I ran NAFA, my employees would be working non stop until all the new checks were issued. I would not have them wait and send them out at their leisure. It seems like an extraordinarily poor way to treat someone you want to stay in business with. I hope NAFA can get it back together.

Keith

I worked for a company once with equipment and fuel cards. No need to specify further. One Friday they called all of us foreman and said to fuel all of our trucks up before 4 pm that day. Any trucks in the yard please fuel them up. we did so and were left with no explanation. I had been down this road before and told folks to buff up their resume as the company was likely going under and they needed fuel in trucks before the cards got shut off. The company swore they were just dropping their fuel account and was getting another. Then the next Monday we started rolling fuel from cash provided by our manager as we "hadn't" had our new cards from new company yet. The company again said it was a mistake and they were getting it ironed out. I got a paycheck on Wednesday of that week and on Friday i was told by my bank my payroll check bounced. I was also notified on Friday that my automaticly deducted union dues had not been paid to the union for over six months but they were pulled from my check weekly. then we were obviously told by the company they were filing bankruptcy that day and that they wanted to keep us all as employes and to trust them we would get paid. Long story short. I have seen this in business a few times and I have never had the first information sent out be the actual facts. I hope everyone gets paid and I hope I ma incorrect but i have seen this many times before. My stated example was just one of a few times I have seen it happen. The Fur industry needs multiple auction houses and multiple avenues for folks to chose.

Just talked to Stoughton, sounds like checks to be issued the first week of Nov. Still having bank problems.

Hahaha

Hmmmmmm

I am guessing this will be the demise of NAFA. I have heard from several locals that put up pretty fair numbers of critters that they will NEVER sell to them again. In the old days they always treated me well but I haven't shipped anything in several years now.

Maybe. I'm gong to wait and see- My check was not very big and I still have fur there.

I actually own a company and actually have told my guys to gas up everything because I was dropping my credit card co. On the flip side I also had people decide to gas up their personal vehicles on my dime - it happens on both side of business. I don't get that feeling with NAFA. I could be wrong.

I actually had something similar happen to me while switching banks. My money got transferred but to a wrong account. Going off our accounting program I should have had a certain amount but didn't figure it out till the phone calls started. Since it was the new bankers fault her sprung for all the charges and covered all the checks and made it right. This is the feeling I'm getting from their people.

Time will tell.

I agree that we need more options. This is a sign of the times- it is happening in several industries as we speak. If they go under and no one picks up the pieces that won't good for us in the short term future but maybe it will help the country fur buyer?

What is going to happen then? A single auction and no other avenue to sell but GFW? We don't have enough country buyers anymore to hold that out as an alternative and some of them will be out with NAFA? End of fur?

My first check was ok - August sales check was returned to my bank - aka - Bad!
Yep, nice lady said they changed banks and the new bank was supposed to honor all the checks made out to recipients - somebody dropped the ball.
New checks being sent in Nov.

Well the hobby trappers will have to take up bowling and us business trappers will have to find a new Job/business.

When I called Stoughton right after my bank called to tell me I had a bad check, the lady on the phone said it would be made right in Oct. So now its Nov? BTW a bad check is not "bank problems" its a no money problem.

That is funny. OMG. Very poor business. NAFA will never see a piece of fur from me again. I bet the owners are paid. Sad very very sad. There are plenty of options to sell. NAFA is not the only game out there.

With all that has been said I don’t really understand how there could be bad checks in the first place because NAFA doesn’t pay out until the fur is sold They didn’t buy up a lot of fur and then it didn’t sell At least I never get paid until mine sells.

Two things I believe to be true- nafa is out of money and were never as rich as they put out. They will probably not survive this. The last statement is my opinion.

There are more options to sell fur than FHA and GFW. There are other major buyers like Zander and Weibke and Petska - to name a few. They have direct overseas markets. You also have other country dealers with direct markets. Plus you’ve got mom and pop buyers that buy for the craft tourist market. And then there is the taxidermy market.

Individually those small buyers aren’t much but as a group overall they are a significant market. Not as big as NAFA and they certainly can’t consume half a million coon a year. But it all ads up.

Plus buyers such as Canada Goose and the Asian buyers are developing more and more contacts in the country.

It might be a rough couple of years but with low fur prices, a lot of guys are t trapping or have scaled back their lines, so that will help too. Not as much fur being produced.

I think NAFA will weather this storm. Within 5 years a lot of folks that are saying “never again” will be back to shipping, especially IF the market improves.

Shhhhhh!

Why are you Shhhhhing me??

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I’ve stated mine.

Serious question, where do you think all the money went? In the good years they had to generate gross profits of 100’s of millions, just this year gross had to have been north of $25 million. No way thier overhead is that high what happened? Herman steal it all

Traveling around the world promoting fur (both wild and ranch).

Costs of putting on a sale - more than a lot of folks think.

Production loans to mink ranchers that they can’t pay back due to low mink prices.

High salaries for the upper level folks.

Facilities in places other than Toronto - Poland. Winnipeg. Wisconsin. To name a few.

I don’t believe any one stole any money.

Do we want every trapper moving into our markets? Let them believe Auctions ( PT sellers) and Groeny are the end all be all.

Nafa was acting like a bank. Giving 5% interest in deferred money from ranchers and anyone else that could afford to leave money there. That to me is a problem. I believe there was some mismanagement there. Rancher loans that couldn't be paid back has been devastating. Nafa owes quite a few mink ranchers deferred money. Some ranchers are owed millions.

Maybe you guys should go after the owners. That would be you.

Party is over for the honchos of nafa. And wissmiss nailed it with crappy loans to ranchers. Saw it comong years ago.

NAFA provides or did provide a lot of services for members and sellers. For Wild Fur there was reduced commission costs for those that become wild fur shippers. We also had many routes and drop off places that we did not pay for directly. Those services were for wild fur and paid for on commissions. NAFA typically does not own fur and thus they only have margins to earn revenues to cover expenses. Margin revenues are determined by higher prices and greater volumes and not on how much one profits from fur bought versus fur value sold.

Also if significant production and or advance loans were issued to ranch owners that ties up a lot of capital and thus liquidity becomes a real issue. Also with outstanding loans to ranchers who know have fewer lower value animals, repayment may be difficult at best. This situation also can create a more cumbersome route to file for say a Chapter 11 etc. to reorganize as there are potentially many producers in the mix, many of who are probably needed to right the balance sheet down the road.
I will continue to ship a majority of my fur to them, but my amounts are not big by any means.
Bryce

I was told by NAFA today when I asked them that same question that the ranchers are the board at NAFA and they make the calls. He also stated that the ranchers voted themselves HUGE rebates. Might be a whole lot more there to look at.

I won't have to worry about it again. I also will be calling the State Attorney General to see how he thinks writing a check on a non existing account helps the lives of Iowans and if they should look into this. LLL

They must have thought the big ranch mink money would never end

i have good country avenues and auction possibilities here along with being able to jump the border to ny and catch groeny.i've been blessed to work in the put up business for a great group of guys for 30 yrs and never had a thought about where my fur was going.

this year i had planned to learn some things and send half to nafa and half to fha.be a fool to go with those plans now.

wish them the best but must admit somethin sure aint hoyle.

Wait ?

Do you mean to tell me that the mink ranchers are in charge

and we members of the WFSC are not actually part owners

of NAFA like they have been telling us all these years ?

Huh,

Who'd a thunk it ?

w

next thing ya know they;ll be chargin for dvd's

I have not been able to get on to my account for the last 6 months,

since the login process keeps rejecting my user name and password.

Could be that Herman Jansen deleted my account

before jumping ship with his "Golden Parachute".

I think that's where the money went.

Sincerely hope It works out for everyone holding a rubber check

and waiting to get payed AND reimbursed for bad check charges plus interest.

w

And magazine subscriptions that I didn't order.

Fur market tanked in the 80’s, one of the auction houses went under. Who was it??

has any one talked to other buyers groeny says he don't know what hes going to have for prices yet wissmiss do you know of any new direct buyers out there the ones you named have been in business for years if nafa owes mink ranchers a lot of money you think their going to ship through them you think any body that catches many furs is going to ship very many through them there could be a lot of fur trying to find a home this year its all been down hill when nafa started several years ago selling furs for what ever they could get whether than holding them for better prices like they did for years now bad checks on top of it

Kind of like the old VW commercial "how does the plow truck driver get to the plow truck?" Unless you have direct sales to end users (or the guy you are selling to does) it ultimately ends up at auction.

ALC another mink coop like NAFA just went under in Seattle a couple years back. Apparently, NAFA (mink ranchers) invested in this.

"In April 2018, North American Fur Auctions acquired the American Legend Cooperative and its Blackglama brand.[4]"

P.S. Blackglamas are selling cheap.

Wow! I haven’t logged in lately. I thought I was the only one who had an issue with my bank rejecting my check from NAFA. I called my bank and they said call NAFA. I was just about ready to when I checked here. My problem? The charge to me from the bank for a returned check was more than the check! Is NAFA going to refund those bank charges? I’m done with them! After 15 + plus years this is it.

Iowagian, you need to contact NAFA and let them know (and probably show proof) of the bank fees so they can reimburse you. Otherwise you will simply get a new check issued... sometime... maybe.

Just to expand a little on Walleyed's informational post on who runs NAFA, from my little understanding of how things work/worked. Wissmiss can correct my inaccuracies.

There is an 8 member board of directors. WFSC has two seats, Canadian Mink Breeders have two, U.S. mink breeders have two, Fox breeders have two. Ranchers 6. trappers 2 Mink ranchers 4.

The board controls the company. Who controls the company? Who is the red headed step child?

Yes Iowagian, it is sad after all these years of trust and not a clue. You might call me a hobbie trapper but none-the - less I am a trapper. I busted my but trapping 45 winter-prime muskrats in small froze-up ditches last January plus 6 mid-winter mink. I wonder if most rubber checks were here in the mid-west or nation wide? Just want to say the nafa agent for Iowa are good people. I am a member Wild Fur Shippers and Tom and Misty gave me a couple nice t-shirts at the Iowa convention plus my top lot hat for top lot rats.

I posted one of the first threads on this, my check bounced... I haven't received a thing. I'm sadly disappointed in their business practices. And won't be sending them any more fur either, sorry NAFA you blew it. I guess it's Fur Harvesters if you're into consigning fur to the world market or some of the local auctions or country buyer/ furriers or direct from source if legal and worth the hassle of regulations license etc. FYI the auctions out west in Oregon and Nevada are well attended you can set your minimums and also send them here or might be worth a road trip Fallon Nevada is a nice area for a late winter/spring vacation meet some new people etc? No sale is only 1% and sale commission is far less than the Canadian houses... If you don't like the price they'll send them back (your cost) but usually sell 95% at decent prices, check them out online... Best is you get your money and most of the commission goes to fight for trapping rights, not interest or bad check fees.

I will still ship To NAFA and will probably sell some fur to Groney. Thee are tons of trappers that have no other option then to ship to NAFA. It will all work out In the end.
I was never the kind of person to kick some one when they are down.

If this is true then it would seem that they paid themselves with other people's (trappers) money?

Boco and Herman are sittin back sippin rum and laughin as the salt water caresses their feet.aloha boyz.

Catcollector mentioned the western Trappers sales. There are 3 of these sales that accept sent in fur. All do quite well attracting a number of buyers.

Oregon - OTC Fur Sales. www.otcfursales.com. They are a bit behind on updating their web site but it will happen soon.

Colorado - http://coloradotrapper.com/2016-fur-auction-2/

Nevada - http://www.nvtrappers.org/fur-sales-2.html


Montana, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. Not sure if they accept sent in fur.

"I just got back from Stoughton and talked to the persons In charge @ NAFA. They told me they are selling all their buildings In WI and moving lock stock and barrel to Canada. As to the checks they said they are working on It and hopefully things will be ironed out In a few weeks."

You are definitely not like us.

IF the NAFA ship is sinking, Beav will be the last one off. LOL

Notice I said IF. At this point in time, I don’t believe their ship is sinking.

i heard his picture is on the side of the groeny trucks.guess its who you talk to.

Great venues for those In that neck of the woods. But for those eastern trappers and for the most of us Midwestern trappers we have very few options.

Dirt you were at NAFA and you didn't let me know?

I was researching Local buyers in my area and was impressed on the range that Petska had on their routes. They stop my this little ol place 5 times next year. I will never forget when I was a little kid and my brother was in high school he would rush every week to get his catch ready for the Petska buyer that came by town. This was the late 80's then. It is good to see them still cracking at it. I will likely be selling to local buyers and groups like petska and will be avoiding the auction market for a while.

No. I just posted an example of you kickin NAFA while they were down.

BTW what home are you staying at these days?

You live that far out in the sticks that you don't have UPS or FEDEX? That must suck...……….

Actually there is a letter by the president of NAFA on the NAFA website explaining the problem and apologizing for it. You just have to log into your account to read it

These statements are so far off the mark it isn't even funny.

Everyone got rebates during the good times. Including trappers.

Yea these threads are only limited by our imaginations.

Pelt outs, fur bans and now Nafa. If this ain’t capitulation?

A. A statement does not end with a question mark (?).
B. We have heard from any number of trappers, and NAFA, that trappers have not been paid for their furs which have been sold.
C. If the ranchers don't have their $ then who does?

Trump? That's not a statement.

A lot of mink ranchers don't have their money. Maybe the trappers stole it.

Not likely. Fur Farmers control NAFA, not trappers. Hopefully everyone gets their money and mink farmers never flood and annihilate fur markets again.

Whatever. I give up. How you gonna beat the market?
Would love to trap some 'rats but a waste of time.
Proposing do no not trap.
Dry supply, prices increase.

Mink 99 that is exactly what he said. He seemed like he was laying blame when he said it but he said it anyway. We had quite the conversation.

I asked him just what happened to the commissions on 100.00 mink and 150 dollar fox not to mention the wild fur. He said first that they bought buildings and infrastructure. I pressed him on that and then he made the statement that the "board" was made of ranchers and they gave themselves rebates. Maybe you should have been on the board and you would have maybe made better decisions than your counterparts did. If you lost money according to him you were the only one. He said everyone with direct deposit got paid and a lot of the people with checks got paid. I told him I knew no one who got a good check. I also told him I hope they are paying those ladies for having to answer the phones of angry trappers. LLL

very interesting LL

I noticed NAFA was expanding in a contracting market. I know soon as prices dropped I went out and bought a new sno-go and outboard, and replaced all my traps ,knives, and boards to get ready for $30 marten.

$30 Marten? Where are you getting the big bucks like that?

I catch those where they cost $40 to produce. I make my money in volume like NAFA.

Those mink ranchers should have kept an eye on gibb.

Thank you. I did just that and was assured the bank fees would be included in checks coming in early November

I agree. Tom and Misty are good people. I just have a hard time coming to grips with NAFA sending out checks they had to know would bounce. Terrible way to run a business