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Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mnsota] #6644633 10/21/19 05:25 AM 10/21/19 05:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,606 Maine S shorthair trapper
shorthair trapper S Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,606 Maine	Originally Posted by mnsota Does this mean Herman no longer has a 500 grand expense budget? Figured all those new markets 'they' opened up in China would have them all billionaire's by now. You just wait,..they get that beaver dressing down,.....ole Iron Belly will pucker up quite rapidly! OMG that is funny. How many years was that the tale. "My biggest worry is that my wife (when I'm dead) will sell my traps for what I said I paid for them."

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: 4488] #6644721 10/21/19 07:40 AM 10/21/19 07:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,635 Pottawatamie co. IA LLtrapper "The Coon Combine"
LLtrapper "The Coon Combine" Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,635 Pottawatamie co. IA	Originally Posted by 4488 What a friggin mess. I can t ell you all for sure that I am much more invested than 99% of you. Well into 6 figures.I have stayed off this forum for two years because it was obvious that most of you were smarter than me but i must tell you this. YOU WILL NOT BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT NAFA! Nor will I. I believe that the tale will be told within one week. If a solution is not found it is my opinion that NAFA will go into foreclosure..If they can find a way to continue until the first sale in 2020 we may have a fighting chance. Please do not pm me. I cant help you. I'm fighting for my own survival. Good luck. Terry you saw this coming along time ago. You knew things that no one knew. You said nothing about it. I never sent a fur to NAFA after you were telling everyone to catch coon and then all of a sudden you wanted nothing to do with buying them. I knew then something smelled in Denmark. (nothing against Denmark) Greed is a powerful thing. It is a lot like those people on Wheel of Fortune that always take that extra spin when you know the answer. Just one more spin. There is only one bankrupt on the wheel but it comes up over 50% when they "go" for it. Should have solved the puzzle I guess. LLL Isaiah 51:6 But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6644735 10/21/19 07:56 AM 10/21/19 07:56 AM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a. P pcr2 "Twerker"
pcr2 "Twerker" P Joined: May 2010 Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.	and that's the way it is,Oct.20,2019.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6644839 10/21/19 10:21 AM 10/21/19 10:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2014 Posts: 3,239 Co.-Wy. part time AK. W wy.wolfer trapper
wy.wolfer trapper W Joined: Jan 2014 Posts: 3,239 Co.-Wy. part time AK.	NAFA may possibly go belly up this season, but the fur business will endure in some form. How long it takes for the ship to right itself is the question. Bear in mind, Ontario Trappers Assn. had to go through similar trying times, restructured and became Fur Harvesters. They will likely get a lot more fur in this year. AND, the Colorado sale is still there for coyotes. Last edited by wy.wolfer; 10/21/19 10:57 AM.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: wissmiss] #6644888 10/21/19 12:03 PM 10/21/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 11,199 Armpit, ak D Dirt trapper
Dirt trapper D Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 11,199 Armpit, ak	Originally Posted by wissmiss Originally Posted by wallfur they should have never needed a loan from bank to cover checks with sound management there should have been money in the account!!! where did all the money go that they made? Ive posted this several times before and I will post it once more for those that missed my previous posts and for those that dont understand how the international fur auctions operate. NOTE - I am using simplified hypothetical numbers to make the math easy. NAFA sells 30 million dollars worth of fur at an auction. After taking a 10% commission, they owe the shippers that sold goods 27 million dollars. On prompt date, which for NAFA is 3 weeks after the last day of the sale, they issue checks and direct deposits for the full 27 million dollars. Not all buyers make payment in full by prompt date. As outlined in the conditions of sale - which is published in each and every catalog - a buyer can make a 35% deposit to hold his purchases until he finishes paying for them. Goods are NOT released until they are paid for in full. So, if NAFA has only collected 10 million dollars by prompt, they have to come up with an additional 17 million dollars to cover the payments they are making to the shippers. This is where the bank factors in. NAFA had an arrangement with a bank to cover the extra 17 million dollars in payments. Which they have been doing for previous sales for any number of years. And everything has worked fine in the past. No problems. For some unknown reason, after the August sale, without any warning, the bank stopped honoring NAFA checks when the NAFA account was at zero. They basically reneged on the agreement they had with NAFA. This is NOT bad financial management on NAFAs part. This is a problem the bank caused by not honoring the agreement with NAFA. IF all the buyers paid their invoices in full by prompt date, NAFA would have had the money in the account and there wouldnt be this problem. But the is, not all buyers pay in full by prompt. Some take a year or so to pay. And some never pay at all. In the meantime, NAFA has paid all shippers in full. And where is NAFA supposed to get this money - from a bank of course. If folks arent able to understand how the system works, Im sorry. It doesnt seem to be that complicated to me....... I not sure those two parts are true. In your hypothetical. I think what was true is the bank wanted out and there was an agreement for NAFA to find a new bank and they couldn't or weren't finding one and the old bank said fine; now you have to. There is a reason the old bank wanted out and a reason NAFA can't find a new one. P.S. Banks don't take Top Lot Certificates, they prefer money. Last edited by Dirt; 10/21/19 12:12 PM. Who is John Galt?

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6644906 10/21/19 12:29 PM 10/21/19 12:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 139 Ohio HondaXR250 trapper
HondaXR250 trapper Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 139 Ohio	Let me see if i understand right. So you send your furs to NAFA, they then sell those furs, and then you get your cut after the furs were sold? Sounds pretty messed up to me. I thought furs were sold to a middle man, who paid for them on the spot, then he sold those furs to a larger company, who then sold to companies using those furs.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: bbrennan] #6644917 10/21/19 12:48 PM 10/21/19 12:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 11,199 Armpit, ak D Dirt trapper
Dirt trapper D Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 11,199 Armpit, ak	[quote=bbrennan]Wouldnt the agreement with the banks be a contract or is it a handshake deal? It has been more than 3 weeks since the sale, it has been 2 months plus I would think they have received some more payments since the sale. To me they got in the money loaning business and had a bad business plan! Why would you loan money to people who cant get loans on their own?[/quote] To stay in business. If they don't loan money to producers to keep them a float they don't get product to sell. The main purpose of NAFA is to market the owner/producers product. If NAFA lets their producer/ owners go bankrupt that is not a win situation. Eventually NAFA ceases to exist. Last edited by Dirt; 10/21/19 12:48 PM. Who is John Galt?

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6644925 10/21/19 01:01 PM 10/21/19 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,797 M.T.V. Alaska Y yukonjeff trapper
yukonjeff trapper Y Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,797 M.T.V. Alaska	In the auction business, they get paid from both ends. The shipper pays commission, and so does the buyer. Throw in the forced down your throat magazine of $10 a pop, and I am simply amazed that they could screw up that win, win sweet heart deal they get. Its like you own a business and your customers and employees BOTH pay you. They are really dumber than I thought. https://www.youtube.com/user/yukonjeffimagery/videos?disable_polymer=1

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: 4488] #6644936 10/21/19 01:09 PM 10/21/19 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 8,558 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co. W walleyed trapper
walleyed trapper W Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 8,558 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.	Originally Posted by 4488 What a friggin mess. I can t ell you all for sure that I am much more invested than 99% of you. Well into 6 figures.I have stayed off this forum for two years because it was obvious that most of you were smarter than me but i must tell you this. YOU WILL NOT BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT NAFA! Nor will I. I believe that the tale will be told within one week. If a solution is not found it is my opinion that NAFA will go into foreclosure..If they can find a way to continue until the first sale in 2020 we may have a fighting chance. Please do not pm me. I cant help you. I'm fighting for my own survival. Good luck. The proverbial chickens have come home to roost, It seems. w "Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters I Support Non-Resident Trapping

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6644943 10/21/19 01:17 PM 10/21/19 01:17 PM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a. P pcr2 "Twerker"
pcr2 "Twerker" P Joined: May 2010 Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.	cockle doodle doo

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: Boco] #6644946 10/21/19 01:20 PM 10/21/19 01:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 8,558 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co. W walleyed trapper
walleyed trapper W Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 8,558 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.	Originally Posted by Boco The market will rebound within a couple years,with all the ranches out of business and not producing.Hopefully a restructured NAFA can weather the storm until then.Fha will be OK. Hopefully, someone will actually start promoting wild fur again instead of marketing it as the red-headed step child of ranch mink. WFSC was allegedly created to promote wild fur but ended up being another promotional marketing tool of the mink ranchers. "old grain bin" seems pretty bitter. "Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters I Support Non-Resident Trapping

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6644979 10/21/19 02:06 PM 10/21/19 02:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2017 Posts: 645 Southern Indiana H Hoosier71 trapper
Hoosier71 trapper H Joined: Oct 2017 Posts: 645 Southern Indiana	Sounds like some of you should start your own auction house if you think there is that much money laying around out there.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: Hoosier71] #6644988 10/21/19 02:19 PM 10/21/19 02:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 11,199 Armpit, ak D Dirt trapper
Dirt trapper D Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 11,199 Armpit, ak	Originally Posted by Hoosier71 Sounds like some of you should start your own auction house if you think there is that much money laying around out there. Good luck finding a bank to back you. Who is John Galt?

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: Hoosier71] #6645025 10/21/19 03:21 PM 10/21/19 03:21 PM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 1,447 idaho W wallfur trapper
wallfur trapper W Joined: May 2010 Posts: 1,447 idaho	Originally Posted by Hoosier71 Sounds like some of you should start your own auction house if you think there is that much money laying around out there. .....i agree send me all your fur and i will pay you after i sell it at whatever price i feel like.....all after commisson drumming fees ect...lol

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: Dirt] #6645026 10/21/19 03:23 PM 10/21/19 03:23 PM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 1,447 idaho W wallfur trapper
wallfur trapper W Joined: May 2010 Posts: 1,447 idaho	Originally Posted by Dirt Originally Posted by Hoosier71 Sounds like some of you should start your own auction house if you think there is that much money laying around out there. Good luck finding a bank to back you. ....shouldnt need a bank you playing with other peoples money...if you smart thats bank enough!!!lol august sale was 55 million so 10%from sellers and another 10% from buyers there cut would be around 11 million ....not bad at all....so where is this money? Last edited by wallfur; 10/21/19 03:33 PM.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6645037 10/21/19 03:42 PM 10/21/19 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 16,700 north Idaho W wissmiss trapper
wissmiss trapper W Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 16,700 north Idaho	As I’ve said before, many of the goods bought at the August sale have not yet been paid for in full. Many of the invoices have only a 35% deposit on them. Goods are still in the NAFA warehouses. www.usedtraps.com Please check out my updated inventory of Native American books.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: wallfur] #6645042 10/21/19 03:46 PM 10/21/19 03:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 11,356 East-Central Wisconsin B bblwi trapper
bblwi trapper B Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 11,356 East-Central Wisconsin	There are over 200 million more people in the World today than 5 years ago when prices were better. Prior to the rapid rise in ranch fur the market was handling 40-50 million pelts per year easily if not more. Now it seems with even a 100 million more middle class citizens the world is not willing to use 40-50 million pelts even at very low prices. If China is selling fur coats for $200-$500 to clear the markets, that makes fur no longer a fashion statement. You can do that with a $120 per of jeans. We may well see improved prices but if we think that in the near term when the glut is used up that our fur will become much higher in price I think we are thinking incorrectly. There needs to be another surge in demand or fashion or we will be seeing ranch and wild fur in the lower price range for a while. If NAFA does succumb to financial short falls, it did so because it tried to extend services to members and producers which may have been a bit short sided knowing what we know now but it was not that they were not working with their source of revenue. I have had good results in shipping the bulk of my fur there for the last 11 years but if that option is gone then others need to be found. Bryce

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6645044 10/21/19 03:47 PM 10/21/19 03:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 11,199 Armpit, ak D Dirt trapper
Dirt trapper D Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 11,199 Armpit, ak	Watch this movie. Who is John Galt?

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: wissmiss] #6645058 10/21/19 03:53 PM 10/21/19 03:53 PM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 1,447 idaho W wallfur trapper
wallfur trapper W Joined: May 2010 Posts: 1,447 idaho	Originally Posted by wissmiss As I’ve said before, many of the goods bought at the August sale have not yet been paid for in full. Many of the invoices have only a 35% deposit on them. Goods are still in the NAFA warehouses. .....that may be true but still i dont see how poor management is the banks fault!

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: LLtrapper] #6645162 10/21/19 05:43 PM 10/21/19 05:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 792 Indiana 4 4488 trapper
4488 trapper 4 Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 792 Indiana	Every thing you just said is BS. Pretty much like everything you post. You dont know me.Go make love to walleyed. This was meant to be a reply to LL

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