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Driving deer is unsafe #6648993
10/25/19 10:30 PM
10/25/19 10:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
Every now and then I see someone post about driving deer as a means of hunting them. I submit that it's an unsafe practice.

I was taught never to aim or fire when anyone is in front of the gun, as defined by a half circle, or 180 degrees in front of me. I don't see how you can drive deer without violating this rule.

Every Ohio deer hunting outfitter I've talked to bans driving as too dangerous. Yeah, when I was young and foolish, I participated in deer drives. The one time I almost saw a guy get killed deer hunting was when we were driving. And yeah, the shooter was stupid to fire a round into a tree next to the driver--but that's the point. There's always someone who gets excited when he sees a buck and does something stupid. The Dick Cheneys are out there, and they don't always stick to quail hunting.

When I was a kid we used to drive fox. A bunch of guys would be dropped off in a big circle off of various roads, and we'd all walk toward the center. But we all had to use shotguns with #2 shot, and the fox was usually killed at considerable range from the guys on the other side of the circle. Don't ask me why they used a hundred guys to do what one trapper could accomplish, but that's another subject.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649003
10/25/19 10:45 PM
10/25/19 10:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,763
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
trapper
DelawareRob  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,763
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
Agreed, but it is still legal here so I say it should be permitted. I personally don’t encourage it though. We use it here for some managed hunts and I think it is unsafe so I don’t participate.


Who is John Galt?

You don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.

Semper Paratus
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649025
10/25/19 11:10 PM
10/25/19 11:10 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
James, do you have any stats to back up your gut feeling or just using conjecture.

For the record, I haven't participated in a deer drive in 20 years.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649034
10/25/19 11:20 PM
10/25/19 11:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Online content
trapper
The Beav  Online Content
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
That's just BS. When I was a kid every farmer and his friends set up deer drives and pushed every piece of woods In the area. We did It for 20 some year's AND NO ONE EVER GOT SHOT.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649036
10/25/19 11:23 PM
10/25/19 11:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,373
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Green County Wisconsin
terrain plays into it a lot , when you have a good hillside you are pushing the deer over and down they are shooting into the hill.


caution and discipline must be used but it can be done safely

no one said you had to shoot at each other , the outside drivers are often doing the shooting of the squirters that come out the sides

say your driving an 80 that is 440 yards wide and 880 yards long next to this mix of juniper and pot holes , mixed hard woods and apple trees from a long over grown orchard is a 80 acre hay field and the 2 are separated by a 5 foot high stone wall.

you can put a person 30 yards the other side of that wall and when the deer make a run for it click click click over the stone pile wall that person waits till they are strait out from that wall before shooting.
those deer most commonly run across the hay field to 2 openings in the next stone fence , if you have the extra guy you tuck him in so that the deer get through that opening and he has a shot at them.

I tell you I would much rather be hunting with my own crew on drives than at one of the many public forests where they literally have a cop directing traffic in at 4:30 in the morning and when the sun rises there is a guy in orange ever 120 yards in every direction.

at least I know where my drivers and standers are going to be , but it does take a degree of organization and communication.

700K people in the woods opening morning and almost every accident is still some idiot shooting at motion in the brush only a deer looks like a deer and you have to positively identify your target and that you have dirt behind it.


been doing drives 29 years

Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 10/25/19 11:24 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649037
10/25/19 11:23 PM
10/25/19 11:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,162
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,162
Eau Claire Wi
Unsafe not necessarily you just need to know you are with and only hunt people who know what's going on from start to finish and dont hunt with idiots or trigger happy fools. Everyone needs to know the lay of the land the plan of attack and cannot stray from that plan no matter what. Can accidents happen sure but it's for sure safer than still hunting public land during gun season in most places. You never know where the buck fever fool is hiding ready to shoot that sound of a lifetime. We dont drive till the last half of season and on private land but I dont feel any more unsafe than driving in traffic. I've seen more accidents from people texting, running red lights, or just not paying attention than I care to think about.

We hunt with a small group less than ten people and drive smaller pieces of woods we dont shoot into the drive unless it's in a valley or behind a hill. It's a great way to fill tags and gets deer moving when they have been hunted hard and gone nocturnal. Say what you will but I love a good drive.


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649039
10/25/19 11:29 PM
10/25/19 11:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922
east central WI
D
Dirty D Offline
trapper
Dirty D  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922
east central WI
Drives certainly are possibly more dangerous than a lone hunter sitting in the woods.

Just cause there is a higher danger factor doesn't mean it should be outlawed.

There is more danger in hunting with a gun than a bow, should we ban gun hunting?


There is always more risk with the possibility of greater rewards, that's the way of the world.
Accept it, risk what you are willing to but don't stop other who are willing to risk more.

Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649044
10/25/19 11:40 PM
10/25/19 11:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,801
Mn
W
Whopper Stopper Offline
trapper
Whopper Stopper  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,801
Mn
We've been driving deer in WI going on 60 years. We stand for a couple of hours the first day then push deer from dawn to end of shooting hours. We have had as many as 20 guys in our gang and always at least 12. Some of our drives are 2 miles, most about a mile. I bet 75 percent of the time the drivers shoot the deer.

I can't think of 1 time anyone felt threatened or there were words.

WS

Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649046
10/25/19 11:47 PM
10/25/19 11:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
No, Steven, I have no stats, just my own limited experience and what I was taught about hunter safety.

I never said driving should be outlawed. It's just something I want to avoid.

Pete has raised the possibility of the terrain allowing for a safe drive, and I won't dispute that--I just think it's a rare situation. And yes, you could probably shoot deer squirting out the sides safely, depending on the angle.

You guys who do drive deer, how do you shoot without breaking that half circle I talked about? And are you sure the other guys in your drive will pass on shooting the buck of a lifetime because it's in line with the drivers?

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649047
10/25/19 11:49 PM
10/25/19 11:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,373
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,373
Green County Wisconsin
considering more people shoot themselves or others in their group with poor handling and a lot more bird hunters than deer hunters
2018 https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/IncidentReport/huntCurrent.html

2017 https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2017HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

2016 https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2016HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

you read through those then I will ask if you would like to try some pheasant on public land or water fowl hunting , with those super safe shotguns and bird shot that cause well more than half of all injuries and fatalities.

700K deer hunters maybe 150k bird hunters
9 day gun season which for most is a 2 days season vs months of season.

you might also be interested that when Green county went Rifle form shotgun , barns , houses , equipment and vehicle struck by projectiles went down significantly.

people seem much more likely to treat a rifle with respect and hit what they were aiming at rather than lob lead.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649057
10/26/19 12:01 AM
10/26/19 12:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 6,190
Kansas
Pawnee Offline
trapper
Pawnee  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 6,190
Kansas
I’ve never done it, but it has the potential of going south pretty quick if everyone isn’t on the same page. A lot like blocking during a pheasant hunt. I always spend time talking to the group about safety and keeping cool heads. That being said; I have set up blockers while guiding and or have been one thousands of times and only seen one accident, so I don’t see a problem with it.


Everything the left touches it destroys
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649068
10/26/19 12:18 AM
10/26/19 12:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,373
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,373
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by James
No, Steven, I have no stats, just my own limited experience and what I was taught about hunter safety.

I never said driving should be outlawed. It's just something I want to avoid.

Pete has raised the possibility of the terrain allowing for a safe drive, and I won't dispute that--I just think it's a rare situation. And yes, you could probably shoot deer squirting out the sides safely, depending on the angle.

You guys who do drive deer, how do you shoot without breaking that half circle I talked about? And are you sure the other guys in your drive will pass on shooting the buck of a lifetime because it's in line with the drivers?

Jim



you don't get a 1/2 circle you get 90 degrees

if your all walking north you have to stay in line no one faster or slower , you may not always be able to see everyone you stop at the breaks and line back up , until you know your back in line your just walking with a gun no shooting. but it moves deer

so if we are each walking lets say across a field of waist high grass with a little brush and we are all keeping in line we each get a 90* overlapping field of fire with the guys on the outside having a wider field of fire to the outside.if we are all 100 yards apart the field of fire is from 315* to 45* on the compass it would over lap about 50 yard out

think about it your on a trap range you don't get 180 you get like 45*

one of our drives was an over grown 80 acre Christmas tree farm field , drivers may carry guns but when you get out to the break between the first section and the second is the only time you could shoot and that was unlikely in the trees is thick , 20 years ago you did most of it on your hands and knees but it almost never failed to produce deer. it is up hill slowly for about 600 yards to the top if the hill , the back side of the hill is steeper and maybe 25 yards to the bottom standers are actually 75 yards of clearing down the back side of the hill and tucked another 25 yards into the woods there is a driver on the outside of the pines on each end when that person reaches the top of the hill the standers can see him he waits for all the drivers to get out just short of the top of the hill then then drive is over. by positioning those standers back down the hill they are shooting into the hill and by being back in the woods 25 yards the deer have slowed down before they hit the tree line and are easier to shoot


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649072
10/26/19 12:20 AM
10/26/19 12:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,493
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline
"Trapperman custodian"
Paul Dobbins  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,493
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Here they drive them with dogs. No harm to humans.



Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649089
10/26/19 01:24 AM
10/26/19 01:24 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
tlguy Offline
trapper
tlguy  Offline
trapper

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Posts: 3,162
Green Bay, Wisconsin
So by your standards, we should outlaw driving vehicles, because some so it unsafely. And we should outlaw flying planes because a plane here in WI just crashed into a pickup killing the driver and pilot. Just because some are too stupid not to shoot their hunting partners doesn't mean those who know what they're doing shouldn't be able to continue on with their legal means of hunting.

Or should we ban guns altogether just because some choose to use them illegally?

Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649098
10/26/19 03:10 AM
10/26/19 03:10 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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pcr2 Offline
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potter co. p.a.
you eat too many pickles James.









Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649099
10/26/19 03:26 AM
10/26/19 03:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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danny clifton  Offline
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williamsburg ks
I wish dogs were legal here. I like hounds and always wanted to try that.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649101
10/26/19 03:41 AM
10/26/19 03:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
That would be fun all right.

To you fellows having trouble reading what I post, once again, I am not advocating making driving illegal.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649102
10/26/19 03:48 AM
10/26/19 03:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
"think about it your on a trap range you don't get 180 you get like 45*"

You may be aiming for all your shots within forty-five degrees, but you don't have people standing right outside that slice of a circle.

When I shoot trap, other people are standing behind me.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649104
10/26/19 04:20 AM
10/26/19 04:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,117
AK
F
FL cracker in AK Offline
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Posts: 1,117
AK
I only drive with people I know, whether it's deer, rabbits, or any other critters. Never seen anyone hit yet.


Psalm 34:6
Re: Driving deer is unsafe [Re: James] #6649107
10/26/19 04:42 AM
10/26/19 04:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,851
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
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wetdog  Offline
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perry co.Pa
On a safe drive, only the standers and flankers have shooting lanes.
Driver's never shoot.

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