No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Re: One Shot [Re: Ridge Runner1960] #6650568
10/27/19 03:58 PM
10/27/19 03:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059
Ky
Originally Posted by Ridge Runner1960
if you desire the DRT (dead right there) results you hit them with a high velocity, quick expanding, cup/core bullet, reports are the 25/06 and the 6mm's account for a large percentage of those DRT hits, and you hit them at the point of most resistance (the scapula) if the bullet expends all its energy on/inside the deer and doesn't exit, the hydraulic shock of the blood going backwards through the major blood vessels hits the brain stem causing the brain to send out an all systems stop message, however you will lose much more meat than the traditional double lung/heart shot which is fatal 100% of the time.
RR


Dead on RR. But with those calibers and no exit wound also comes little or no blood trail. So if you hit them back too far or not in a vital area the recovery may not happen.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650571
10/27/19 04:05 PM
10/27/19 04:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,472
Northern Ohio ...
S
Sullivan K Offline OP
"Keith"
Sullivan K  Offline OP
"Keith"
S

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,472
Northern Ohio ...
Originally Posted by Sullivan K
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
That white throat patch makes a great target by the way !!!!


I did that once and it made such a mess of the guts I decided not to do that anymore


Thinking about that, I didn't aim for the white patch, I aimed for the chest. That was a mistake.


My name ain't Keith
Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650572
10/27/19 04:07 PM
10/27/19 04:07 PM

K
krispcritter
Unregistered
krispcritter
Unregistered
K



Sounds like your bullet is not expanding and just passing through, and not giving any shock or much energy transfer.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650579
10/27/19 04:14 PM
10/27/19 04:14 PM

K
krispcritter
Unregistered
krispcritter
Unregistered
K



PM sent.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650594
10/27/19 04:31 PM
10/27/19 04:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,539
Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
T
turkn8rtrapper Offline
trapper
turkn8rtrapper  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,539
Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
I take a lot of head shots. If I have no intentions of mounting a buck or it's a doe I will generally shoot it in the head if it is 150 yards or less. These shots are taken from a good rest and I rarely shoot off hand. Everyone I hunt with calls me the sub dural hematoma guy. Most of the deer I shoot never take a step. I average 5 to 8 a year. And no there are very few misses. I have a LOT of rifles. The vast majority are accurate. I have 5 or 6 that are very accurate and those are the only ones I hunt with. My go to deer rifle for the last 20 years is a custom Weatherby 30-378. It was accurized and loads developed by Randy Selby in Wyoming. 180 grain Barnes TSX at 3500 fps. Sub 1/2" rifle. My next rifle is a custom T/C Encore 35-375 Ultra Mag 225 TTSX 3400 fps sub 1/2" next is a cheap Thomson Compass 30-06 165 TTSX 3300 fps sub 3/4" . fourth is a custom 25-06 I built on a Savage 110 action 110 gr accu bond 3300 fps sub 1/2" and last is a custom 6.5 creedmoor I built on a Savage 10 action 140 gr accu bond 2750 fps sub 1/2" All my loads have a 10 or less fps standard deviation in speed All have Night Force or high end Leupold optics picatinny base and high end usually custom rings that are lapped. If I think I might mount a buck I usually take a heart lung shot but very few run away and when they do except for a handful don't go further than 30 yards. I love to track animals and have the chance to do it quite a bit for the guys I hunt with. I will admit that our deer average between 150 and 200 pounds so these aren't the brutes you folks up north grow. I have shot some large animals but only with a slug gun in Indiana but hopefully I'll get to try out my 30-06 on some big ones this year.


"Skin that smokewagon and see what happens"
Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650639
10/27/19 05:41 PM
10/27/19 05:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,631
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
trapper
5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,631
Virginia
One thing that comes to mind, is taking into consideration all of the variables when shooting at a deer in the field/woods before selecting where you want to attempt to place your bullet.
Do you have a decent enough rest to place the bullet exactly where you want it?
Did you just walk a half mile so that you are you out of breath?
Are you 100% confident in the range estimation?
If you find yourself saying no, or maybe to any of these questions before pulling the trigger, then you would be better off attempting to place the bullet in the center of the chest. This leaves you with plenty of room for error.
If you are dialed in and have the shooting skills to do it, then take a head shot, neck shot, or bust the blade as we say.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650653
10/27/19 05:58 PM
10/27/19 05:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,892
eastern WV
R
Ridge Runner1960 Offline
trapper
Ridge Runner1960  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,892
eastern WV
I don't care for the bloody cleanup of the meat from a head shot, at least in the chest they do bleed out inside.
RR

Re: One Shot [Re: 52Carl] #6650671
10/27/19 06:26 PM
10/27/19 06:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
Originally Posted by 52Carl
One thing that comes to mind, is taking into consideration all of the variables when shooting at a deer in the field/woods before selecting where you want to attempt to place your bullet.
Do you have a decent enough rest to place the bullet exactly where you want it?
Did you just walk a half mile so that you are you out of breath?
Are you 100% confident in the range estimation?
If you find yourself saying no, or maybe to any of these questions before pulling the trigger, then you would be better off attempting to place the bullet in the center of the chest. This leaves you with plenty of room for error.
If you are dialed in and have the shooting skills to do it, then take a head shot, neck shot, or bust the blade as we say.


That's where it lies. It's a man or women who has done their due diligence and know. Everyone that hunt's should fall in to the no doubt. If you're shooting is 50%, or hey I shoot high lol, then dial it in or stay home.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650705
10/27/19 07:05 PM
10/27/19 07:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,386
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,386
Green County Wisconsin
CNS is the only right now guarantee.

CNS= Central Nerviness System brain or spine

on deer the head , neck hitting the spine or point of the shoulder

[Linked Image]

the point of the shoulder damages a bit more meat but it has the largest margin for error and still getting the deer

where the spine and the shoulder bones intersect , heart and lungs are still hit if your a bit low if you move strait back you still get spine if you move forward you get spine

the more forward front of shoulder neck keeps you off the back-straps and damages less meat if you can make the shot

the base of the ear is no meat damage and DRT but by far the smallest target that can move quickly.


Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 10/27/19 07:08 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650726
10/27/19 07:27 PM
10/27/19 07:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 776
MN, USA
star flakes Offline
trapper
star flakes  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 776
MN, USA
Originally Posted by Sullivan K
I have a question and I am certainly not trying to start an argument. I have hunted deer for fifty years and have shot, probably, seventy deer. I shot all but two of them with a model 760 Remington shooting 180 grain Remington Core-Lokt bullets. The other two I shot with a Smith and Wesson 500. Out of all those I have only had three go down with one shot. One was the first deer I ever shot. I hit him high, in the spine, and he dropped. One was hit in the front shoulders and had both front legs broken, so it went right down. The other I shot in the neck.

Almost all of the other deer were hit in the lungs, or the heart and lungs, with some of those shots completely destroying the heart. All of those deer ran. Usually only about 40-50 yards and when I walked up to them they were dead. I remember one deer that I shot at and it took off running so I shot again. After the recoil the deer was gone. I went up to where I had last seen the deer and there he laid. I grabbed its antlers, like I am sure most everyone does with a downed deer, and they were loose in the skull. I had hit the deer in the head with the second shot. But the thing is, when I gutted the deer I found I had broken his front leg, and hit his heart and lungs. When that deer took off running I didn't even notice he was running on three legs.

So my question. Where do you guys hit the deer to drop them with one shot? I often see people saying the animal never took a step, or it dropped in its tracks. I do not mean to call anybody out, I am just curious.


Quote
Absolutely love the 7mm 08! Have never had a deer take another step when hit with a Nosler ballistic tip. All my kids have used it.




Hi Keith,

I did not read through all of the responses, so I apologize if you were informed of this, but it is not where you shoot a deer primarily that drops them in their tracks, but what you shoot them with as what you are asking is not about spine or brain shots, but what is termed shock to the central nervous system.

The legend, Jack O'Connor of Outdoor Life was the advocate for a miracle cartridge which came out of John Olin's Winchester Western, and it was built on your 30,06, 180 grain casing. It was the 270. O'Connor was mystified that no matter how far he shot that cartridge in open sights days, that he put it on the deer and the deer dropped in it's tacks. The 270 is one of those "perfect" cartridges in powder and bullet dimension for energy transfer. I remember O'Connor writing about a 30 caliber cartridge that he was loading old bullets in from a vintage cartridge and in that form, he said he never saw such energy transfer as that round was blowing opposite quarters off deer.

Your "problem" is that you are shooting a firearm cartridge not designed for the shock you are asking about. Few 30 caliber rounds as offered ever dropped game in their tracks. They were like the old 7 x 57 Mauser in being sure killers, but the game did not drop, due to bullet speed. Your 180 is too heavy for deer for energy transfer. A friend of mine in the 80's started loading 165 grain bullets into 06 cases and on a running shot, he hit a deer in the ham, and it literally about blew the opposite ham off, as Jack O'Connor experienced.
That is about as close as you are going to get to the perfect load in 30 caliber and it is devastating in energy transfer. Lighter loads in 30 caliber in the 125 grain tend too square for good shooting. The 06 is a load that really never had a comfort zone as it was too light and too heavy, but it killed well. The 35 Whelen is much better heavy game load on elk in the 06 case. So unless you want to trade for a 270 Winchester in 760 which is what my uncle shot everything with for 50 years, you could try your 7mm 08, which is a 270 in a 308 casing and a fine expensive load.
I used teh 150 grain Silver Tip from Winchester for years on deer. It drilled hols through them, and it would obliterate lung and heart. In that load, I did have a number of deer drop while trying to take a step.
Powerpoints, CoreLokt and soft points are all good too, but are better in the 150 to 160 class than the heavier loads in the 180 to 220 class.

Deer shot with 300 magnums are at times too much gun, due to bullets constructed for elk. I have seen 7mm Magnums knock the life out of deer literally and blow things up beyond what I would prefer. You just have a better elk rifle in your configuration than deer. It would not drop elk in their tracks and they would amble off like Ohio deer, but it does get the job done.

I hope that helps.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650734
10/27/19 07:34 PM
10/27/19 07:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,787
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
trapper
charles  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,787
Asheville, NC
I do not mean to brag, but I cannot recall the last deer that took a step after being shot. At age 73 my memmory is not good. I shoot non-magnum calibers and fast light bullets. I reload my bullets. I do not use premium bullets, but prefer cup and core lead bullets. I use Sierra a lot. No ballistic tips at all. Never liked them, nor all copper bullets. Give me fast expanding bullets.

I think many new hunters use bullets made for heavy game animals and don't get the rapid expansion a lighter bullet can provide. In 7mm-08 and 280 I like 120 or 140, For 270 I like 130, and .257 I use 115-120. For 243 I use 100 grain. In 223 I use 60 gr Nosler, the only premium bullet I use. I repeat, no premium deep penetrating bullets are needed for deer. No magnum calibers are needed. Just place your shot high on the shoulder.

I hunt from elevated stands and never take running shots. Ranges are 100 - 300 yards. Some over crops and some over bait.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650779
10/27/19 08:21 PM
10/27/19 08:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,463
ny
G
gcs Offline
trapper
gcs  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,463
ny
I hunt only with a 30-30, mostly heart lung shots and they almost always run 50-75 yds, some more. This usually isn't a problem except at dusk or near close property lines. I replaced the 170 gr bullets with 150's and most deer never got out of sight, I replaced those with the newer Hornaday 165 gr leverevolution and got more DRT then ever. The extra velocity and expansion does the trick.
In a 30-06 I think the 180 gr bullets are too stout, try 150's or 165's.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650802
10/27/19 08:40 PM
10/27/19 08:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,180
Priest River, Idaho USA
S
SundanceMtnMan Offline
trapper
SundanceMtnMan  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,180
Priest River, Idaho USA
When I said I have a tendency to shoot high I meant I break their back not take out their heart and lungs as intended but I am glad I amused all of you. As far as neck shots or high shoulder shots you are getting the spine no matter what you call it. I have killed deer with 243,257 Roberts,270 S.M.,308 and 300 Winchester Mag. Caliber doesn't matter much as long as you shoot it well and know its ballistics. I don't take head shots often but will on unsuspecting deer.


"They Say Nothing is Impossible,
But, I Do Nothing Every Day."
Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6650805
10/27/19 08:43 PM
10/27/19 08:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 316
PA
C
cablejohn Offline
trapper
cablejohn  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 316
PA
I made that drop in their tracks statement on the 7mm 08 thread. Until starting to hunt with that caliber, I had always used larger calibers with heavier bullets. I had bought that rifle used with a lot of Federal ammo with 140 grain nosler bullets. Hunting out of a box blind with shots from 50 to 300 yards the kids and I have never had to track a deer. All heart / lung shots. Usually relaxed deer. 90% bullet recovery under skin on far side. They have dropped so fast that I thought I missed. I am more sold on the bullet than the caliber. Nosler ballistic tip. I feel it's the perfect whitetail combination! That's not to say that you can't kill deer with whatever you want to poke a hole in them with.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6651208
10/28/19 09:22 AM
10/28/19 09:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 862
St. Croix County, Wisconsin
T
ToTheWoods Offline
trapper
ToTheWoods  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 862
St. Croix County, Wisconsin
If your putting a lethal shot on the animal don't worry about dropping it in it's tracks. You pull a head shot in my camp and it's the last time you will be in my camp. Ever seen a deer a few weeks after season missing its lower jaw because some idiot couldn't wait for a good shot. Slow death and extremely hard to track and catch up to. Boiler room, boiler room, boiler room. Everyone will make mistake sooner or later but it's much harder to miss bad on an 8 inch circle.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6651213
10/28/19 09:26 AM
10/28/19 09:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,568
Saskatchewan, Canada
S
Sask hunter Offline
trapper
Sask hunter  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,568
Saskatchewan, Canada
300 mag with 165 Hornady interloks going 3200 FPS. I think I am 8/8 with instant drops. Lots have been through the rib cage as well. Of course your spine and head shots should always drop them

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6651291
10/28/19 11:19 AM
10/28/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,655
ND
M
MJM Offline
trapper
MJM  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,655
ND
I feel you are shooting to heavy a bullet to get a drop shot, with out hitting the head or spine. I shoot light bullets going fast and drop stuff where it stands. I shoot a 75 gr HP out of my 25-06 at about 3600 fps. It blows deer off their feet shot in the ribs, broadside. I get an entrance and no exit and they never move after being hit. I have shot a lot of coyotes with the same load and it folds them up as good as anything and most the time no exit. I would try a fast expanding bullet in 150 gr out of the 30-06.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6651332
10/28/19 12:24 PM
10/28/19 12:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
I shoot like MJM does, fast bullets thru the ribs. Not a guarantee to drop on the spot like a spine or neck shot, but pretty close.

Another good point of shooting them in the ribs is no wasted meat like the shots in the shoulders and neck area. To me, nothing worse than a shoulder shot deer.
But, that's just my opinion.

Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6651339
10/28/19 12:42 PM
10/28/19 12:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,594
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
trapper
Trapper7  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,594
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
I've had deer go right down and quite a few ran away, but didn't make it far with a heart-lung shot.

I reload and use 150 grain Barnes TSX bullets. I like them because they have great penetration and leave a heavy blood trail because the bullet always exits the body. I shoot a 30-06 as well

If you don't reload, I believe Federal used to use Nosler Partition bullets in their Premium grade shells in 30-06. These bullets are great for penetration too.
I never cared for Remington Core-Lokts.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: One Shot [Re: Sullivan K] #6651394
10/28/19 02:43 PM
10/28/19 02:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,320
vermont
V
vermontster Offline
trapper
vermontster  Offline
trapper
V

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,320
vermont
I have a 270 Ruger M77 I have always tried to shoot my deer through the chest using 130 grain Remington core lokts. The would always run 150-250 yards. I switched a couple years ago to the Barnes 130 grain TSX bullets. The first deer I shot through the chest it’s front shoulders dropped to the ground and it pushed itself with its hind legs about 15 yards and died. I shot a 168# black bear through the chest and it dropped instantly. Only two animals I have shot since using the Barnes TSX bullets. I have been using the Barnes MZ Hollow points in my 50 caliber muzzle loader and they shoot well and are devastating on deer.


The bitterness of poor quality last a lot longer than the sweetness of low price
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread