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Terminology Matters? #6654032
10/31/19 02:43 PM
10/31/19 02:43 PM
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Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
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The recent proceedings of our government are being referred to as a “coup” by half the politicians and some media outlets.

How does such label impact oaths taken by Military personnel as well as the Law Enforcement?


-Goofy-
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654037
10/31/19 02:50 PM
10/31/19 02:50 PM
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American In the Pyrenees; Fran...
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For me... inthe US the word coup has become a casual term because it always happens in some distant land. Words carry so much power with a loose media.

Pete

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654047
10/31/19 02:59 PM
10/31/19 02:59 PM
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Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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A coup can be done legally within the rules. Doesn't have to be an armed insurrection.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654048
10/31/19 03:00 PM
10/31/19 03:00 PM
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Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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coup
/ko͞o/
noun
noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coup d'états; plural noun: coups d'état
1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

"he was overthrown in an army coup"

This impeachment is not sudden, violent, or illegal. Impeachment (and removal) is a completely legal Constitutional procedure. It's basically a political process. It's certainly not anything like a criminal process. Per the Constitution, the house has the sole power of impeachment, and they get to make the rules as to how it goes. "High crimes and misdemeanors" is not the same thing as "felonies and misdemeanors", it basically means whatever the house decides it means. It's an old-timey phrase that basically refers to a person in a position of power abusing their power.

Info on impeachment and high crimes and misdemeanors

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654050
10/31/19 03:02 PM
10/31/19 03:02 PM
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Getting There Offline
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Sorry had to look up the meaning of the word, sorry it fall in to two group of people I do not listen to, the Media and our Politicians. For many years I did not know the difference between the left wing and right except in birds, I know the left wing is an embracement along with the media in this Country, JMO


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: SNIPERBBB] #6654064
10/31/19 03:20 PM
10/31/19 03:20 PM
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Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB
A coup can be done legally within the rules. Doesn't have to be an armed insurrection.


So where would the military’s obligations be should the citizens reject a legal coup?


-Goofy-
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654070
10/31/19 03:29 PM
10/31/19 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB
A coup can be done legally within the rules. Doesn't have to be an armed insurrection.


So where would the military’s obligations be should the citizens reject a legal coup?


There is no such thing as a legal coup. If you're referring to impeachment, the citizens don't get to accept or reject it; the house has the sole power of impeachment. The only way short of a civil war that citizens can reject impeachment is to vote out members of the house.

Last edited by loosegoose; 10/31/19 03:30 PM.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654073
10/31/19 03:38 PM
10/31/19 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
[quote=HobbieTrapper][quote=SNIPERBBB]


There is no such thing as a legal coup. If you're referring to impeachment, the citizens don't get to accept or reject it; the house has the sole power of impeachment. The only way short of a civil war that citizens can reject impeachment is to vote out members of the house.


and yet their "impeachment " will have no impact on anything. It is a political ploy to try and start early campaigning for the 2020 election. They want to be able to say he was impeached. Without a super majority vote to remove in the Senate nothing changes. There is no way there will be a 2/3 vote in the Senate.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: Culvercreek] #6654078
10/31/19 03:48 PM
10/31/19 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Culvercreek

and yet their "impeachment " will have no impact on anything. It is a political ploy to try and start early campaigning for the 2020 election. They want to be able to say he was impeached. Without a super majority vote to remove in the Senate nothing changes. There is no way there will be a 2/3 vote in the Senate.

I don't doubt that all. This impeachment business is silly, all over a phone call. What nonsense. I'm thinking the plan is to drag it out until the election and either impeach right before election, or wait until after election and make the claim that people shouldn't vote for a president who is in the process of being impeached. There's no way he'll be removed, though, and he'll stay popular with his base, the same way Clinton did after he was impeached.

But none of that changes the fact the House is perfectly within their rights to conduct this impeachment any way they see fit.

Last edited by loosegoose; 10/31/19 03:49 PM.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654085
10/31/19 03:59 PM
10/31/19 03:59 PM
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I'm surprised congress has as high of an approval rating as they do, and its only 20 some percent.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654086
10/31/19 04:01 PM
10/31/19 04:01 PM
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Rodney,Ohio
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The 20% people are the ones that answer I don't know

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: hippie] #6654088
10/31/19 04:09 PM
10/31/19 04:09 PM
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loosegoose Offline
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Originally Posted by hippie
I'm surprised congress has as high of an approval rating as they do, and its only 20 some percent.


People tend to like their own senator/representative, and think all the others are a bunch of butt-sniffers. That's why most of those goons get re-elected over and over and over again, even though they have a low approval rating.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: loosegoose] #6654094
10/31/19 04:27 PM
10/31/19 04:27 PM
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Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper


So where would the military’s obligations be should the citizens reject a legal coup?


There is no such thing as a legal coup. If you're referring to impeachment, the citizens don't get to accept or reject it; the house has the sole power of impeachment. The only way short of a civil war that citizens can reject impeachment is to vote out members of the house.


That’s the question of the post, while one side is saying impeachment the others are labeling it a coup. How is that proven and if so what are the consequences?


-Goofy-
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654098
10/31/19 04:34 PM
10/31/19 04:34 PM
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Those labeling it an impeachment are correct, and those labeling it a coup are wrong. It's really that simple. It's not a coup. It's proven by looking at the Constitution and reading the part that says "The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment. — Article I, Section 2, Clause 5."
They're not doing anything illegal or illegitimate, they're exercising perfectly legal powers.
Those calling it a coup are upset about the impeachment and trying to de-legitimize it for various reasons, so they use words like "coup". Impeachements are perfectly legal and legitimate.

Whether or not you think there are grounds for an impeachment is an entirely different matter of course, and you and I would probably agree on that subject. I'm pretty sure the House would try to impeach Trump for wiping a booger in Nancy Pelosi's door knob if they thought they could get away with it.

Last edited by loosegoose; 10/31/19 04:35 PM.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654100
10/31/19 04:41 PM
10/31/19 04:41 PM
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Somewhere I read "A house divided against itself shall fall." IMHO what's going on in the House is illegal and perhaps treason. U.S. military is obligated to obey the President, rightly so in our form of government. The U.S. Constitution mandates separation of powers and it appears to me that one branch disrespects that fact.

Last edited by Furvor; 10/31/19 04:51 PM.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: Furvor] #6654102
10/31/19 04:47 PM
10/31/19 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Furvor
Somewhere I read "A house divided against itself shall fall." IMHO what's going on in the House is illegal and perhaps treason. U.S. military is obligated to obey the President, rightly so in our form of government.


Why do you think a constitutionally enumerated process is illegal and treasonous? Keep in mind the Constitution defines treason as "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." I'm genuinely curious why some think this to be illegal and/or treasonous.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: loosegoose] #6654108
10/31/19 04:56 PM
10/31/19 04:56 PM
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The right to confront and question one's accusers is not to be perverted.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: loosegoose] #6654112
10/31/19 05:03 PM
10/31/19 05:03 PM
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
Those labeling it an impeachment are correct, and those labeling it a coup are wrong. It's really that simple. It's not a coup. It's proven by looking at the Constitution and reading the part that says "The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment. — Article I, Section 2, Clause 5."
They're not doing anything illegal or illegitimate, they're exercising perfectly legal powers.
Those calling it a coup are upset about the impeachment and trying to de-legitimize it for various reasons, so they use words like "coup". Impeachements are perfectly legal and legitimate.

Whether or not you think there are grounds for an impeachment is an entirely different matter of course, and you and I would probably agree on that subject. I'm pretty sure the House would try to impeach Trump for wiping a booger in Nancy Pelosi's door knob if they thought they could get away with it.


lol


-Goofy-
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: Furvor] #6654113
10/31/19 05:03 PM
10/31/19 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Furvor
The right to confront and question one's accusers is not to be perverted.

If impeachment was a criminal process, then yes, you'd be right. But impeachment is a political process, so the rules for criminal cases don't necessarily imply. The six amendment says "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense."
It says right in the first sentence that it only applies to criminal prosecutions.

Last edited by loosegoose; 10/31/19 05:08 PM.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654127
10/31/19 05:21 PM
10/31/19 05:21 PM
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I think the ones talking a a coup are talking about the ABC agencies that that tried to undermine the election?

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