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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Boco]
#6656055
11/03/19 08:44 AM
11/03/19 08:44 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
mainer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
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Its all there AV,and that encyclopedia of the fur trade is the best info available today.It covers the entire trade form the 1600's up to and including the 20th century
And yes the numbers are fur pelts.30 years is a short time in the big picture and would not change the numbers in any way.
If you don't want to look it up,give me a species and I will look it up.It gives the numbers of fur pelts in percentage between Canada and the USA.Some species obviously are produced more in the usa but taken overall Canadas trappers produced as much or more with 1\10th of the trappers.
Here are a few.This is for the 20th century when fur was booming compared to now.
Racoons are harvested in numbers 26 times greater than the Canadian raccoon harvest.
The Canadian fisher harvest fluctuated from 68 to 100 percent of the entire NA harvest.
The Canadian marten harvest is 68 percent of the entire NA harvest in any decade.
The American harvest of muskrats is 62% of the totals.
The Canadian beaver harvest fluctuated from 55% to 72 % of the totals
The Canadian harvest of otters was Dominated by Canada before 1970 with 51 to 66%,after 1970 USA has produced 54%.
The Canadian harvest of cats is between 86 and 90% of the total NA harvest.
That is just a few. Boco, are you being serious or just trolling everyone here? You realize those harvest numbers are over 30 years old and only represent harvest percentages for the years reported at the time the data was collected. In other words, it can only provide harvest statistics and trend data for the time period(s) reported and cannot represent harvest totals or trends into the future. It's simple logic. That data certainly has historical value but is completely worthless for telling us anything about fur harvest totals or trends today, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 25 years ago; in fact, those statistics were dated -- not reflecting the most recent harvest numbers -- at the time of the book's publication....by definition. A book of that size (nearly 1200 pages) takes many years to complete. The production process itself -- the editing, proofing, typesetting, printing and so on -- can take years before a book ever reaches retail shelves. This is the most bizarre claim that I've ever seen you make.
Last edited by mainer; 11/03/19 08:46 AM.
"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: wallfur]
#6656059
11/03/19 08:50 AM
11/03/19 08:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 795
Labrador, Canada
crosspatch
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 795
Labrador, Canada
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Its all there AV,and that encyclopedia of the fur trade is the best info available today.It covers the entire trade form the 1600's up to and including the 20th century
And yes the numbers are fur pelts.30 years is a short time in the big picture and would not change the numbers in any way.
If you don't want to look it up,give me a species and I will look it up.It gives the numbers of fur pelts in percentage between Canada and the USA.Some species obviously are produced more in the usa but taken overall Canadas trappers produced as much or more with 1\10th of the trappers.
Here are a few.This is for the 20th century when fur was booming compared to now.
Racoons are harvested in numbers 26 times greater than the Canadian raccoon harvest.
The Canadian fisher harvest fluctuated from 68 to 100 percent of the entire NA harvest.
The Canadian marten harvest is 68 percent of the entire NA harvest in any decade.
The American harvest of muskrats is 62% of the totals.
The Canadian beaver harvest fluctuated from 55% to 72 % of the totals
The Canadian harvest of otters was Dominated by Canada before 1970 with 51 to 66%,after 1970 USA has produced 54%.
The Canadian harvest of cats is between 86 and 90% of the total NA harvest.
That is just a few. ...and who gathered all this data? That book is the Bible. Nothing before or since even remotely comes close to so comphrehensively covering what it does about American and Canadian furbearer biology, trapping methods, marketing, grading, history and on and on and on. It was compiled/coordinated by Milan Novak whom I had the pleasure of meeting a few times back in the day. Numerous Canadian and American authors contributed to it. It is so big it should have been printed in 2 volumes - mine is coming apart as the bindings can not take frequent referencing. 1150 pages and the print is on the small side. Some of the info. may be a bit dated but much of it is as true now as it ever was. I doubt anyone soon will undertake such a daunting task as to try to compile a second undated edition.
Last edited by crosspatch; 11/03/19 08:51 AM.
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656062
11/03/19 08:55 AM
11/03/19 08:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
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Very true Frank,an excellent source of reference for all aspects of the fur trade.
One of our members on here,Gulo, is a contributor in the mink section
Mainer-that book is the bible of everything to do with the fur trade.
The records of harvest in there are comprehensive and cover all the harvest records from the beginning of the fur trade in North America,including of all the fur companys operating in the USA in the 18oo's.
The records I quoted are for the 20th century when the fur industry was at its peak.
It would be safe to say that there are far less producers in the usa now than there was then,especially with all the trapping restrictions you have now.
I would say Canadian trappers numbers are less also but not near as much percentage wise since registered traplines are still being worked for the most part,and vacant lines get scooped up.
Last edited by Boco; 11/03/19 09:06 AM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656065
11/03/19 08:58 AM
11/03/19 08:58 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
pcr2
"Twerker"
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"Twerker"
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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reminds me of Wayne's world we're not worthy,we're not worthy. 
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Boco]
#6656072
11/03/19 09:09 AM
11/03/19 09:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
mainer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
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Very true Frank,an excellent source of reference for all aspects of the fur trade.
One of our members on here,Gulo, is a contributor in the mink section
Mainer-that book is the bible of everything to do with the fur trade.
The records of harvest in there are comprehensive and cover all the harvest records from the beginning of the fur trade in North America,including of all the fur companys operating in the USA in the 18oo's.
Look! Squirrel! Yes, it's a great book, but fur harvest numbers reported in a 1988 publication however great (or biblical) it is have absolutely nothing to say about fur harvests numbers and trends today.
"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656087
11/03/19 09:21 AM
11/03/19 09:21 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
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The basic fact remains today that with 10% of the trappers Canada produces the same amounts of harvest numbers overall as the USA,that is the point all along,and with all the bans in your country today It is highly likely even more today in the 21'st century.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656096
11/03/19 09:29 AM
11/03/19 09:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
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Of course he is trolling. We don't have anywhere near the acreage of marten , lynx and beaver habitat Canada has. We don't have direct per pelt subsidies that Canada has. The state of KS produces more coyotes and bobcats annually than the entire country of Canada. Like I said earlier "apples to oranges".
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656098
11/03/19 09:31 AM
11/03/19 09:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
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I have submitted documented proof for the 20th century.
My trapline produced more Lynx than your entire state-so what?
Last edited by Boco; 11/03/19 09:35 AM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656099
11/03/19 09:32 AM
11/03/19 09:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,849
Pa
Wright Brothers
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,849
Pa
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Anyone have a NAFA update?
Sorry if OT.
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656102
11/03/19 09:33 AM
11/03/19 09:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
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Hey Boco, I was all set to buy a trapline in Ontario about 20 years ago. Untill I began researching requirements for a trapping license. Found out I could buy the line and cabins but had to hire a Canadian to trap it. Open trapping up to U.S. citizens and see just how superior Canadian trappers really are
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656103
11/03/19 09:34 AM
11/03/19 09:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
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do your own research boco. your the one making ridiculous claims
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656105
11/03/19 09:37 AM
11/03/19 09:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
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My claims are documented in the fur bible.
There are Americans trapping in Canada.
You likely couldn't survive a winter in Canada let alone produce quantities of fur here,lol.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656110
11/03/19 09:43 AM
11/03/19 09:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
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I was going to find out if that was true or not boco but apparently you Canadians are scared of me
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656115
11/03/19 09:47 AM
11/03/19 09:47 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,618
S. Texas
Txcoonman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,618
S. Texas
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Soooo you guys wanna talk about nafa or everything else that comes to your mind?
Texas fur and skull buyer
Greg Novak
Gnovakswa@gmail.com
361-793-6706
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Txcoonman]
#6656119
11/03/19 09:54 AM
11/03/19 09:54 AM
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J Staton
Unregistered
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J Staton
Unregistered
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Soooo you guys wanna talk about nafa or everything else that comes to your mind? Might as well. From my understanding NAFA no longer exist to the wild fur producer. On average, when the market is good, how many beaver does a Canadian trapper produce in a 5 month season? Using the 5 month season because that is the length of Arkansas's beaver trapping season, excluding nuisance work.
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: danny clifton]
#6656122
11/03/19 09:56 AM
11/03/19 09:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,204
Manitoba
Northof50
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,204
Manitoba
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Hey Boco, I was all set to buy a trapline in Ontario about 20 years ago. Untill I began researching requirements for a trapping license. Found out I could buy the line and cabins but had to hire a Canadian to trap it. Open trapping up to U.S. citizens and see just how superior Canadian trappers really are There are several US Customs officers that have RTL's in Canada, work 5 days and get 9 days off to trap, just have to work in an airport.
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656123
11/03/19 09:58 AM
11/03/19 09:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
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NAFA. It was an auction company that marketed fur. Managers were charging buyers and sellers both a commission along with other mandatory charges. Yet they still managed to bankrupt the company. Even wrote checks without funds to cover them. Somehow no one has been arrested for that. Other outlets for trapper goods have been scrambling to get the market share NAFA had. That goose is cooked.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656124
11/03/19 09:59 AM
11/03/19 09:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,340
se South Dakota
NonPCfed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,340
se South Dakota
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One of the potentials caveats of using your "bible" for trends now in then U.S. is that for much the 20th century, numerous fur species were still recovering over that time. You go back and actually look at some of the harvest numbers for say beaver is the U.S. for say 1940s though 1970s and they tend to be low. Same thing with species expansion. Coon where still making their way west and north in the Upper Midwest/Great Plains and coyotes still making their way east and south. I suspect that there are more beaver, coon, and yotes in the USA now than there ever was in the 1980s. Trapping technologies have also changed. Just look at what dp traps have done for coon trapping among other things. I don't think you ever did qualify if your "10% Canadians outproducing all of USA" was in the value of the fur or sheer number of animals. It makes a difference what is being said. Your marten distribution advantage alone could heavily impact overall value of the fur catch.
But whatever, if you want to believe that your noble 10% of Canuk trappers catch more critters than all trappers in the USA, keep believing it. Your winters are long and there's plenty of time to keep smoking that bong...
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
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Re: NAFA Speaks again ....
[Re: Actor]
#6656129
11/03/19 10:04 AM
11/03/19 10:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,618
S. Texas
Txcoonman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,618
S. Texas
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Yup, Im tryin to figure out if they opened the gates and let people already start buying goods for pennies or not, or if there were just a few pt sales. I’ve got an October auction proceeds credit but no way to find out what sold. Does anyone have any info on that.
Y’all can start another thread to figure out how many beaver you can catch in Canada in a season and if your traps are legal and if you can trace em to make sure there legal and if you have the right license or on your on trapline etc.. kind of what I was getting at there
Texas fur and skull buyer
Greg Novak
Gnovakswa@gmail.com
361-793-6706
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