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Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: Catcollector] #6657190
11/04/19 03:21 PM
11/04/19 03:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 785
Labrador, Canada
C
crosspatch Offline
trapper
crosspatch  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 785
Labrador, Canada
Well in the age of litigation this is interesting. Some might be interested to Google "North American Fur Auctions Wikipedia". Says NAFA went into recievership and some pretty strong words about the CEO's role in the company's downfall.

Last edited by crosspatch; 11/04/19 03:34 PM.
Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: crosspatch] #6657211
11/04/19 04:02 PM
11/04/19 04:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 785
Labrador, Canada
C
crosspatch Offline
trapper
crosspatch  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 785
Labrador, Canada
More: Google "Insolvencies Deloitte North American Fur Auction"

What a tangle - letters from Dutch tax authorities in the mix here too

Last edited by crosspatch; 11/04/19 04:09 PM.
Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: Actor] #6657228
11/04/19 04:36 PM
11/04/19 04:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,829
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
trapper
rex123  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,829
KY.usa
The way some of it reads they really went out on a limb with certain mink farmers.

Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: Actor] #6657236
11/04/19 05:02 PM
11/04/19 05:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,174
IL - Shawnee Ntl Forest
ShawneeMan Offline
trapper
ShawneeMan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,174
IL - Shawnee Ntl Forest
Whether we were lied to or not doesn't change the fact that some of us were left in a heckuva predicament with basically no recourse.
If after all the facts come out that NAFA went under by subsidizing ranch farmers, it's gonna really tick me off.


Shawnee National Forest - We live out here because we're not all there.
http://www.ripcordassociation.com
101 Pathfinder Det / Vietnam 1969 - 1971
Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: Actor] #6657254
11/04/19 05:34 PM
11/04/19 05:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
M
mainer Offline
trapper
mainer  Offline
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M

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
I haven't had the chance to go through them, but here's the link to NAFA's court docs, etc. -- bottom of page under CCAA Documents.

https://www.insolvencies.deloitte.ca/en-ca/pages/NorthAmericanFurAuctionInc.aspx

Last edited by mainer; 11/04/19 05:35 PM.

"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: mainer] #6657271
11/04/19 05:57 PM
11/04/19 05:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 683
saskatchewan canada
K
kingrat Offline
trapper
kingrat  Offline
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K

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 683
saskatchewan canada
Originally Posted by mainer
I haven't had the chance to go through them, but here's the link to NAFA's court docs, etc. -- bottom of page under CCAA Documents.

https://www.insolvencies.deloitte.ca/en-ca/pages/NorthAmericanFurAuctionInc.aspx


Some really good info, they owe cibc in excess of 30 million.

Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: kingrat] #6657277
11/04/19 06:02 PM
11/04/19 06:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 53
Alberta
M
Moose maniac Offline
trapper
Moose maniac  Offline
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M

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 53
Alberta
Originally Posted by kingrat
Originally Posted by mainer
I haven't had the chance to go through them, but here's the link to NAFA's court docs, etc. -- bottom of page under CCAA Documents.

https://www.insolvencies.deloitte.ca/en-ca/pages/NorthAmericanFurAuctionInc.aspx


Some really good info, they owe cibc in excess of 30 million.

I read on another forum that they officially filed for bankruptcy today it comes from a fur buyer that would know

Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: Actor] #6657292
11/04/19 06:10 PM
11/04/19 06:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 683
saskatchewan canada
K
kingrat Offline
trapper
kingrat  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 683
saskatchewan canada
Anyone that still thinks mink ranchers didnt sink nafa maybe read some of those court files.

Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: mink99] #6657300
11/04/19 06:29 PM
11/04/19 06:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,459
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
W
walleyed Offline
trapper
walleyed  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,459
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
Originally Posted by mink99
Originally Posted by walleyed


Wasn't NAFA majority owned by mink ranchers. ?

Wasn't the majority of the NAFA Board of Directors comprised of Mink Ranchers ?

Didn't that board of directors make decisions that bankrupted the company ?

Didn't these Mink Ranchers make a decision NOT to pay trappers

for their fur sold at Auction ?

Did these Mink ranchers not conceal that fact, and make up excuses,

withhold pertinent information, and string the trappers (victims) along ?

Is this Ex-company of Mink Ranchers now holding unsold trapper fur hostage

with no intention of paying for, or returning the fur to trappers?

I'd say regardless of how NAFA's Mink ranchers got to where they are now,

they certainly fit the description of ripping off trappers.

w


Yes
Don’t know
Don’t know
No
No
No
Get some real evidence and I will believe you.


Right back at you mink99. Ditto.

How about YOU show me some real evidence that what you say

above is anything more than your unsupported opinion,

and I'll take it under consideration.

I don't have a skin in this game of flim-flam & bamboozlement

of hard working trappers but I have personally witnessed,

and called attention to NAFA's long history of unethical and underhanded

business tactics towards trappers, and towards FHA over the last 20 years

and lucky for me I didn't have fur consigned or sold by NAFA during the last

three or four years.

I really feel bad for those of my fellow trappers who were taken for a ride.

w


"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association
Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters

I Support Non-Resident Trapping



Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: kingrat] #6657308
11/04/19 06:44 PM
11/04/19 06:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
L
Lugnut Offline
trapper
Lugnut  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,930
SEPA
Originally Posted by kingrat
Originally Posted by mainer
I haven't had the chance to go through them, but here's the link to NAFA's court docs, etc. -- bottom of page under CCAA Documents.

https://www.insolvencies.deloitte.ca/en-ca/pages/NorthAmericanFurAuctionInc.aspx


Some really good info, they owe cibc in excess of 30 million.


Holy Crap!


Eh...wot?

Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: kingrat] #6657316
11/04/19 06:54 PM
11/04/19 06:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047
Iowa
M
mink99 Offline
trapper
mink99  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047
Iowa
Originally Posted by kingrat
Anyone that still thinks mink ranchers didnt sink nafa maybe read some of those court files.



You do understand how the loan agreements worked dont you? Nafa would give out loans to some mink ranchers ( a lot of ranchers don’t need loans) in return the ranchers consigned the pelts to nafa. Therefore nafa had the pelts to sell and get commission.

Now as the price of mink tumbled, the commissions became less and less and the loans were never paid back.

So you can say because of the ranches going broke and not paying back the loans they brought down nafa. Problem is who gave the loans? Those operating on the financial side of things, like Doug Lawson, former ceo of nafa. Who is also not a mink rancher. I know another lady that worked in the financials who also wasn’t a mink rancher.

Bottom line is nafa mismanagement and greed, yes greed, sunk nafa. Not all these evil mink ranchers. As loans were given out to fur shops in China too


ITA, NTA, FTA
Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: kingrat] #6657321
11/04/19 06:56 PM
11/04/19 06:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047
Iowa
M
mink99 Offline
trapper
mink99  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047
Iowa
Originally Posted by kingrat
Originally Posted by mainer
I haven't had the chance to go through them, but here's the link to NAFA's court docs, etc. -- bottom of page under CCAA Documents.

https://www.insolvencies.deloitte.ca/en-ca/pages/NorthAmericanFurAuctionInc.aspx


Some really good info, they owe cibc in excess of 30 million.


Nafa once claimed to have over $50 million cash to there name. Thing is this was actually rancher deferred money that nafa was paying interest on.

So that was a big fat nafa lie.


ITA, NTA, FTA
Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: Actor] #6657332
11/04/19 07:04 PM
11/04/19 07:04 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
I think when people say the "mink ranchers sunk NAFA", what they really mean is "the people in NAFA overextending the company to provide advances to the mink ranchers sunk NAFA".... which is pretty much exactly what you just said.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: Actor] #6657333
11/04/19 07:10 PM
11/04/19 07:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,283
PA
L
lumberjack391 Offline
trapper
lumberjack391  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,283
PA
.……..and took down trappers with them

Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: Actor] #6657336
11/04/19 07:14 PM
11/04/19 07:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
M
mainer Offline
trapper
mainer  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
Open up the "Application Record - October 31, 2019.pdf" file and read the subsection: "Need for DIP Funding to Fund KIT Loans". It begins on the 51st page of the PDF document. There's 658 pages to this document; I should finish reading it this evening. grin


"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: yotetrapper30] #6657343
11/04/19 07:30 PM
11/04/19 07:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 683
saskatchewan canada
K
kingrat Offline
trapper
kingrat  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 683
saskatchewan canada
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
I think when people say the "mink ranchers sunk NAFA", what they really mean is "the people in NAFA overextending the company to provide advances to the mink ranchers sunk NAFA".... which is pretty much exactly what you just said.

Yes that's what I mean, had nafa not been a bank for the ranchers we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: mainer] #6657344
11/04/19 07:31 PM
11/04/19 07:31 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by mainer
Open up the "Application Record - October 31, 2019.pdf" file and read the subsection: "Need for DIP Funding to Fund KIT Loans". It begins on the 51st page of the PDF document. There's 658 pages to this document; I should finish reading it this evening. grin


So if I am reading this right, the mink ranchers were still receiving money from NAFA AFTER the trappers' checks bounced???


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: Actor] #6657346
11/04/19 07:35 PM
11/04/19 07:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,829
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
trapper
rex123  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,829
KY.usa
Wow! What a mess. Taxes owed, paying mink farmers feed bills and in the middle of it all the board of directors trying to make sure they get their money when they have people that worked for them out of a job.But for those of you who still like them they are going to try and come out of this in a year or so. Just go and read it long but they knew this was coming.

Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: mink99] #6657347
11/04/19 07:37 PM
11/04/19 07:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 683
saskatchewan canada
K
kingrat Offline
trapper
kingrat  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 683
saskatchewan canada
Originally Posted by mink99
Originally Posted by kingrat
Anyone that still thinks mink ranchers didnt sink nafa maybe read some of those court files.



You do understand how the loan agreements worked dont you? Nafa would give out loans to some mink ranchers ( a lot of ranchers don’t need loans) in return the ranchers consigned the pelts to nafa. Therefore nafa had the pelts to sell and get commission.

Now as the price of mink tumbled, the commissions became less and less and the loans were never paid back.

So you can say because of the ranches going broke and not paying back the loans they brought down nafa. Problem is who gave the loans? Those operating on the financial side of things, like Doug Lawson, former ceo of nafa. Who is also not a mink rancher. I know another lady that worked in the financials who also wasn’t a mink rancher.

Bottom line is nafa mismanagement and greed, yes greed, sunk nafa. Not all these evil mink ranchers. As loans were given out to fur shops in China too

Seeing as how nafa is owned 70% by mink ranchers I guess you could understand where all the pressure to do business how they were came from. Bottom line if the evil mink ranchers paid there loans back nafa would be ok.

Re: NAFA Speaks again .... [Re: kingrat] #6657351
11/04/19 07:43 PM
11/04/19 07:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 776
MN, USA
star flakes Offline
trapper
star flakes  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 776
MN, USA


You do understand how the loan agreements worked dont you? Nafa would give out loans to some mink ranchers ( a lot of ranchers don’t need loans) in return the ranchers consigned the pelts to nafa. Therefore nafa had the pelts to sell and get commission.

Now as the price of mink tumbled, the commissions became less and less and the loans were never paid back.

So you can say because of the ranches going broke and not paying back the loans they brought down nafa. Problem is who gave the loans? Those operating on the financial side of things, like Doug Lawson, former ceo of nafa. Who is also not a mink rancher. I know another lady that worked in the financials who also wasn’t a mink rancher.

Bottom line is nafa mismanagement and greed, yes greed, sunk nafa. Not all these evil mink ranchers. As loans were given out to fur shops in China too [/quote]
Seeing as how nafa is owned 70% by mink ranchers I guess you could understand where all the pressure to do business how they were came from. Bottom line if the evil mink ranchers paid there loans back nafa would be ok.[/quote]


The correct summation of this all is, honest Trappers in Canada and the United States were robbed by a number of unscrupulous people, and the Trappers are the ones who are paying NAFA's globalist debts, while many can not pay their own.

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